Confused with naming....

What's the difference between...

Ipomoea nil 'Yuuzuki' http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/91248/
Ipomoea nil 'Chocolate' http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/31429/
Ipomoea 'Chocolate Silk' http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/53982/
Ipomoea nil 'Rose Silk' http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/49152/
Akatsuki no Yume http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/383743/

I'm really confused, they all look similar to me and I can't find any entry on comparison between all these cultivars. And it seems like labeling/naming of mgs should be organized on DG....

Eliz

This message was edited Oct 15, 2008 6:30 AM

This message was edited Oct 16, 2008 7:00 AM

I'll be dog-goned if I can figure it out, Eliz! LOL

too many names for one pretty flower. it is confusing

Do Not attempt to read this as you rush out the door over a quick cup of coffee in the morning...it is intended for contemplation,not super-quick rushed reading...okay (?)

The following response of mine is to address the subject of PlantFile entries and that although entries are sometimes easy to get corrected,more often it can be a painstaking process...it is very,very easy to have a photo placed in the wrong entry,it is much more difficult to get any type of entry corrected...

imzadi -You stated

"too many names for one pretty flower. it is confusing"

It also adds to any confusion when flowering plants which are discernibly different get lumped under 1 name...


evr -You stated

"they all look similar to me and I can't find any entry on comparison between all these cultivars. And it seems like labeling/naming of mgs should be organized on DG..."

I'll try and shed some light on these statements and questions...and my response is applicable to anyone to 'Whom it May Concern'...


Emma has done the most to grow out the different Roses and Chocolates and I will defer to her to supply the relevant ultra-details...

There are differences in the basic color,as to whether there is a white edge to the flower and if the leaves are variegated or not...these aspects may not jump right out at you,but they are present...but,not everyone always places their photos in the right entry...and getting photos moved and / or otherwise corrected is not always easy...try it for yourself...

There is a thread where Emma DID post photos of the different types,but I do not know the exact link offhand and it does take time to track down the exact relevant threads and posts...this is the computer age and many things are automatic,but the vast amount of information contained within the many threads is not 'automatically' indexed...
Perhaps manually searching through all of the threads will yield results for you...

My response is applicable to anyone to 'Whom it May Concern'...

In Short,We try to do our best,but...there are many realistic facts to consider...e.g.,

The PlantFiles here is a gargantuan effort that requires both knowledge and tact to adequately address...

Please feel free to spend the time it takes to track down ultra-specific information,index it and suggest that it be added to the FAQ's or sticky...

The PlantFile entries are not automatically cross referenced to other similar entries,but within the MG section I have added some cross reference links as a (hopefully) helpful courtesy...

Take it upon yourself to organize those parts that you perceive as in need of greater organizatiuion...research the subject in necessary detail...submit your suggestions to the...

1) PlantFiles administrative staff

2) the MG Forum community

3) try to contribute the requisite clarity in such a convincing way that it seems that your approach not only makes the most scientific sense,but services any fragile ego's that may take offense at your approach,because they feel that their approach better suits their needs and other people who feel the same as they do...

The Most Important of All is:

4) GOOD LUCK !!!...hope you survive to tell your story...!!!

The information regarding Morning Glories is relatively organized here on Daves and in the PlantFiles...try any other database for comparison...let me know if anyone should locate a better one or if anyone creates a better one...

Everybody has a strong tendency to want to place their own pet names on any variation that arises and this is a double edged sword that can help and impede at the same time...people add entries or photos and get indignant if they can't call a plant by their pet name and want to know WHY NOT !!!...resolving these issues is time consuming as you try to dance around every bodies ego's...

The cultivar names as used by different companies may turn out to be the same or there may be differences which may not jump right out at you,but are still different enough to warrant using a different name...it all takes time and effort and as this is an evolving work in progress ...this is just not a instantaneous perfect world...


The entire MG Community has gradually progressed in an understanding of the need to reduce name duplication and in first learning how to identify the most commonly grown species,before becoming a 'cultivar' aficionado...we have come a long way and there is still a longer way to go...

The PlantFiles is an ever evolving work in progress and although it is the most used plant database in the world,it is definitely not 'perfect'...

Jumping to premature conclusions can offset hard work which has already been done...


Please feel free one and all to contribute any clarification(s) that you care to as able...

I hope that what I have shared helps to shed some light on what has taken place,what is taking place as per the evolving processes and that Everyone is a part of the Process...to raise the conscious awareness of the Community involved...


Respectfully,


Ron



This message was edited Oct 15, 2008 4:02 AM

LOL I just want to buy seeds of yuuzuki from open pollination, but I've received seeds of chocolate silk lol. I guess this will have to wait... I have to add another one to the list of similar-looking blooms above...Akatsuki no Yuma http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/383743/ from searching in the discussion forum.

Emma's provided good info on the comparison of Chocolate Silks and Rose silks from this forum http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/532692/ but I'm still looking for more info. My head is spinning already lol.

I'll try buying from original labeled packets (though I've been warned that commercial seeds can also have variations etc. etc.) of "chocolates" "rose silks etc". and I'll do some comparison by spring/summer/fall 2009 and perhaps ask guru Emma about this situation lol. I think she hybridized the Dusky gray gene series too yes? (I'm also collecting these and comparing them)

Any of you guys know any good online sources? I know onalee has yuuzuki, but for others I have to search for. Any suggestions as to how I should approach this investigation/experiment?

Thank you Joseph, Marie and Ron for posting =D.

heck, I might as well buy the one being sold as non-commercial from ebay..

Another link, with ron's and emma's input. http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/681709/

From atenkley's reply, same forum:

"I've been trying to learn as much as I can about the chocolates as a color, because I happen to like it and it's related colors (plums/ mauves and grays/slates) very much. These colors are created by a series of modifier genes applied singly or in combination to the basic blue, magenta and purple colors. The primary genes involved are the dusky (dy), duskish-1 (dk-1), duskish-2 (dk-2) and dingy (di). The software translators that I have used often use terms like "astringent" to describe these colors. Our chocolate is often referred to as "persimon brown" or "group ten"...which may be a show classification, I'm not sure.

Like Ron says, Kyushu University has many strains that show the chocolate color...not the chocolate name. These strains typically have the dusky (dy) gene applied to one of the red colors. Because these numbered strains are primarily used in genetic research, they are maintained very carefully and have known primary genetic makeups. Remember, we all create strains also when we save seed from a stray ( or intentional!) cross that catches our eye...and we repeat this selection each year. If we share seed early in this process, the recipient probably selects a little differently than we do, and thus creates a slightly different strain from the one we've created.

As to what is a true "Rose Silk", "Chocolate" or "Chocolate Silk"...I think it will be very difficult to define, for the reasons Ron gives...common marketing names applied to differently developed lines by the seed companies. So far, I've only grown what I received as a "Rose Silk", [HYPERLINK@davesgarden.com] and it was very close to the flower of the recent sister thread. Depending upon the lighting, it could look somewhat rose or a more brownish tone. It also was very close in color to the ChaChaMaru that I grew.

Arlan "

Interesting info from Arlan re: genotypic expressions.

PS to Ron: I do not do no.3 very well lol. I hope I don't offend anybody/hurt anybody's ego...I don't mean to hurt them.

I know as humans we have a tendency to organize/categorized things (I just do this more than a normal person but I'm not implying that I categorize people all the time because this is stereotyping eh =p).

This message was edited Oct 15, 2008 7:33 AM

evr - more later as I feel inclined to address relavent topics,but a simple reply in reference to the Sakata product

Akatsuki no Yume - note spelling
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/133764/

TTY,...

Ron

I'd like to link you guys to a post I made today...it's hypothetical and I would like to test it in some way....http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=5682839.