A Dilemma

At the risk of reopening a very nasty can of worms that might threaten some, I have a concern. I have been doing some last perusing of items that members still have for trade, especially with the idea of spreading some of my surpluses around. Looking through the lists, it dawned on me that there are seeds being offered for things that here in Idaho (Montana, Nevada, Wyoming & Utah, also) would be a threat to our environment. Remember the kudzu vine in Florida? It was introduced because someone thought it attractive. Datura, morning glory, nightshades, canadian thistle and others may be attractive, but are a major weed problem here, taking over miles of natural groundcovers throughout the high mountain desert, and even in the mountain regions, requiring massive herbicides and reseeding of native plants. These environments are extremely fragile.
My question is: Shouldn't we be concerned that something we are trading might cause infestations that will get out of control in the future in areas outside our own? And shouldn't our first priority be preserving our environment? I would hate to think that something I traded would sometime in the future become a nightmare for others somewhere else.
I suppose I could get out the herbicides, forget about my lawn, and the neighbor's, and just mow the stuff. But, what if...

Hi Pete.

Everything that is traded can be bought through a catalogue. No one knows if seeds are sold or traded to responsible people.

Now if you lived next to me I might freak out......your herbacides might leach or blow over on a windy day into my garden. Responsibilties go with everything, including pesticide use.

Pooje

Pete..you raise a good question but I believe it rests with each individual in their choice of gardening plants. As mentioned, you can get any kind of seed anywhere. The bottom line is personal accountability with choice and awareness of ecological issues :)
Trish

Did somebody say kudzu? OMG! That's one vine I know about and believe me you DON'T want to grow it.

Pete2

Pete,

Aren't Kudzu and Invasive synonyms?

Chalk one up for the northerners. That's one horror they won't ever have to face.

Yup, they're the same thing alright. I wonder what idiot planted that stuff to start with.

Actually, it was with the best intentions.

Kudzu was brought in, originally, for two purposes. First and foremost, as a high-protein silage crop (it's used for that in the orient). Second use was for the roots, which are turned into a thickening agent similar to cornstarch and arrowroot.

There are people who actually think Kudzu is pretty. But I can't believe any of them live south of the Ohio River.

Kudzu was actually introduced into the South by the Federal Government as an aid against erosion. Enought to make you believe in all kinds of conspiricy theories, huh? *G*

As far as all plants and seeds being available "everywhere" that simply is not true. If you do an order from a catalog, and you are in an area that has determined a plant to be "invasive" or "detrimental", the catalog company will tell you, "Sorry, we can't sell that to you." Look at the many many states that now have restrictions against purple loosestrife. As they should. And kudzu. Ditto.

These regulations exist because an expert somewhere gathered enough information to have them placed on a restricted list. I'm not able to do enough research personally to contravene the expert's opinion, and I have enough faith in folks with green thumbs and science degrees to accept the judgements on the side of caution as valid. That does not mean endorsing paranoia about triffids taking over the earth, either. There are so many plants available to grow, why should someone be disappointed that they cannot grow a particular few. As gardeners, perhaps we should adopt part of the Hyppocratic Oath as our own. "First: do no harm."

Well, it would be pretty hard to keep up with all the invasive plants to all states (and world). Shouldn't the person requesting the seeds be held accountable to making sure they are OK for their region?? Julie

Maybe Dave could create a table of links to sites that describe invasive plants and where they're illegal to buy or raise. I'm sure there are several of us who could nominate sites to include.....just a thought.

go_vols, sounds like you're volunteering to get me this info! :)

If you get me the data, I'll put it up and make it easily found for all members to see.

Dave

Sure! I'll start with some links I'm familiar with, and can easily put my finger on, and others can chime in with sites they're familiar with. Do you want me to just post them here?

Yeah, that'll be fine.

Probably your best bet, (state-side that is) is to check the department of agriculture's site. If you can read through all the legal gunk and figure some of it out in English, it should be a help.

Here's a small list to get us started....the first two are each a "list of lists" I don't know whether you want to go that route, or actually list out the individual state sites.

I found the "Weed Fact Book" very helpful - it's written in (more or less) plain English, and the Univ. of Florida's site has a huge database of invasive plants, complete with pictures and descriptions.

U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service
http://refuges.fws.gov/resources/weeds.html

"Useful Weed Management Links"
http://www.themastergardenershow.com/useful_weed_management_links.htm

Faith Campbell's List of Invasive Plants
http://www.growinglifestyle.com/article/s0/a3002.html

University of Florida's Center for Aquatic and Invasive Plants
http://aquat1.ifas.ufl.edu/

Online Version of the Weed Fact Book
https://www.denix.osd.mil/denix/Public/ES-Programs/Conservation/Invasive/contents.html

Invasive Plants of Canada Project
http://infoweb.magi.com/~ehaber/ipcan.html

I'm glad you started this thread. It is a subject we need to become educated about. It seems to be up to us...the laws are rarely enforced and the authorities seems to be paying only lip service to the problem.

http://plants.usda.gov/plants/cgi_bin/noxious.cgi?earl=noxious.cgi is the best resource that I know of. In addition, the home page to that http://plants.usda.gov/plants/index.html also has some nice links available for research.

I think that the gardener's honor system could be relied upon to to check the lists,and to comply with the restrictions, but it might not be a bad idea to post the links somewhere on the trades forum, as well as the individual trade tracking section. Something like, "Have you checked the list?".

Just remember that "invasive" may not mean invasive in every climate and state, so some species may be cleared to travel to some states and not to others. However it should be the responsibility of both parties to a trade to check to see if what they want/have is restricted in some areas. Two heads are better than one on this issue.

I don't even want to get into the restrictions regarding sending plant material between different countries. ;) Let's just say that by the time most of the restrictions on both ends were met, the plants would be dead anyway, making it a moot issue!

Kudzu

Some garden writer suggested using it for compost.

Many newbies tried to find it..

A few counties in GA it is a $10,000 fine for importing this plant..


Byron

The following threads have some links in them too.

http://davesgarden.com/showthread/trading/1528.html
http://davesgarden.com/showthread/general/1527.html
http://davesgarden.com/showthread/general/1531.html

I've seen a lot of kudzu up in the Atlanta area. It smothers everything in it's path at an alarming rate. I wonder how many feet the stuff grows every night?

I understand the concern about damaging the ecology of an area, but I don't think we should be trying to control nature to the extent that we decide that some species are 'native' and some are welcome introductions and some are invasive aliens.

Most problems with 'invasive' species have been caused by man's interference. Let's not kid ourselves into believing we can get it right now. Often, scientists have bred endangered species of animals in captivity and released them back to their original habitat, only to find that they don't survive successfully there any more. Things move on, things thange.

Many species, of plant, animal and bird, become extinct as their place is taken by others with some more advanced feature. That is the essence of existence. Nature is and always has been evolving, and man is only one agent of change.

Obviously, some introduced plants are a danger to native vegetation, but exactly what are we going to call native? Most things were introduced to all areas long ago, maybe by man, maybe by animals or the tide before that. Are we only going to describe things that man found growing somewhere as native to that area? They may have come from somewhere else before we were around to record it. They may be growing somewhere else that we haven't found yet.

We're only temporary occupants of this planet, and I think man is just as much an agent of seed dispersal or species introduction as animals or birds. Nature will adjust itself to our shortcomings. We may make the planet unviable for human beings (and many other current lifeforms), but we do not have the capacity to destroy it.

As in much else, we should do the best we can to preserve what is of value to us while we are here. If you're worried about foreign plants, don't grow them. If you see growing new plants as part of learning about the planet, go ahead.

Gardeners are generally responsible and knowledgeable people.

Mary, I agree with you on several points you've raised; however I don't think we're trying to be overly-conservative and create and/or dictate any sort of "native only" standards. As I understood the original post, and those that followed it, concern was expressed that some gardeners may not be aware that certain plants are illegal to import into their area, which should be considered when trading plants.

By providing the links above, anyone interested can learn more about the plants that are considered invasive to their geographic area, and become more informed as well as responsible.