can bulbs be planted in flower boxes in zone 5b?

Hi there! I'm planting my many many spring bulbs I've been coveting in the catalogs and I have what may be a silly question - will a flower box (maybe 6-7 in. deep) work for planting some small bulbs in zone 5b? I'd love it if that would work, so pretty. Any advice? Also, all the info I've read says bulbs need full sun to work but I ordered from a favorite - bluestone perrenials.com and they said part to mostly shady was fine. I was wondering if you'd had good experience with partly shady locations? If you could stand one more question - do bulbs have all the nutrition they need for the first year or so or do you really need the bulb fertilizer at the time you plant?
Thanks for any help, I've mostly done perenials untill now, first try with bulbs except alliums which I love, I'm new to the spring bulbs!

All I have is aplanter box with Caladiums but I dig them and store them for the winter. I would be afraid any others would freeze too. BEV

I planted bulbs in containers and they rotted due to water standing and poor drainage.
I wouldn't do it again.
I'm not sure about flower boxes.
Hope someone else can give you the answer you want.

I was afraid that might be true! Any luck with bulbs in the shade?

My house was new to me last fall for planting bulbs.
I didn't know where the sun spots were.
I had lily bulbs in containers on the back deck and some with tulips too.
By fall the shade was around there and sundidn't arrive until late May. Lily bulbs were wet from fall to spring. Containers froze with standing ice long after tulips bulbs planted in the front(facing south) were in full bloom. The lilies rotted and the tulips just never put out roots in the fall, so never bloomed.
Check your sources and see what bulbs like shade if thats where you want to plant something. I have a sweet woods lily that likes shade and blooms in the spring.

Thanks for the info!

I've done a couple of experiments with spring bulbs in containers here in zone 6. I tried a variety of bulbs in whiskey barrels cut in half one year and they all rotted during the wet winter. A couple of times since I purchased several half price bulbs late in the season and the ground was frozen when they arrived; I potted them and kept them in a cool, dark place (the fridg the first time, the basement the last time) till I could see roots in the drainage holes. Then I sat them outside, against the house and covered them with straw and/or leaves. In spring, those came up right on schedule. I think giving them time to establish a root system before they freeze is the key, and containers freeze much faster(earlier) than the ground. The first time I used MG potting soil, and I think it was too peaty and water retentive, so the next times (when I was successful) I mixed half MG potting soil and half fine textured bark mulch for sharp drainage. I do this for all my container grown bulbs now and it seems to make them happy.

Spring bulbs do have all the energy they need for spring blooms stored in the bulb, but if you're planning to keep them as perennials some light fertilizing is a good idea. I like to mix some slow release granules in the potting mix, then I use soluble fertilizer a few times while they're growing and blooming. If you're growing them as annuals, no need to waste the $ on fertilizer.

I've had good luck with most spring bulbs in partial shade, but most prefer at least a few hours of direct sun. If your shade comes from deciduous trees, earlier flowering bulbs get the sun they need before the trees leaf out. If your shade is from conifers or a structure, I'd use bulbs recommended for shady areas (like some frittilarias, trout lilies, Spanish bluebells, etc.). Sun is more important if you want to keep them as perennials, so they can manufacture enough carbs to fuel the next years bloom cycle. If you're just growing them as annuals, shade is fine- they just need enough light to keep them from being leggy and spindly.

Best of luck with your bulbs! Hope you enjoy them and become as addicted to the joys of spring bulbs as many of us have :-)
Neal

It seems like if you can trick them through the cold cycle you can then plant them as if they'd been outside all winter? That's good advice, thanks.

I really can't even understand NOT trying to grow these bulbs as perenials because it's a good amount of work, I'd love these to come back for at least a few years? I actually planted them already without specific bulb fertilizer but I did plant them with a good organic mix. Do you think it's too late or can I fertilize them next year during the growing season with similar results? The spot I chose does probably have a good half day of sun so maybe I will be okay there. Would you say in general most bulbs should be treated as blooming for only 1-2 years? I'm a little concerned about the trial and error because if I wait until the next Spring to see if my bulbs are coming back it will be too late for a good -looking Spring garden for a whole year! Maybe I need to learn patience - lol

I appreciate all the help!

Your newly planted will have only one "at risk" factor now.
SQUIRRLS.
In spring it will be DEER.
If you have neither of these pests where you are ,just be patient and see what happens.

Most spring bulbs do make good perennials, and will increase from year to year, so I'd definitely attempt to save them. I think it would be fine to just feed with soluble as they start sprouting. Some slow release could still be added to the surface and lightly scratched in too, but not necessary. Since you've already got them planted, they should have plenty of time to establish roots before it gets really cold. How exposed are they? Sounds like they will get some protection and warmth from the house. What kinds of bulbs do you have?

Because I am always impatient for signs of spring, I plant tulips and daffs etc. on the south side of the house .

I saw a diagram of what happens to fall bulbs. They root and start to grow, put up a stem and "advanced guard leaf that stops just short of the surface of the ground. They wait like this all winter until the soil warm to a certain temp and then the whole bulb goes into action.
I get little peeps of leaves about the end of march here in Z6, always a thrill.

I believe it - that's the time of year when I'm just about desperate to see signs of life outside - ha ha! They do have some protection and maybe warmth from the brick housefront too. I have planted double delight peony tulips, crocus blue pearl, chionodoxa forbesii and giant alliums all in the full sun. The ones I planted that are in the partial shade of the house are my costco tulips called holland beauty, judith leyster, catherina, and dynasty. I hope you're right about them coming back - I'll definitely feed them like you said next year!

By the way - I'm a big peony fan and had bought a bag of bulbs (from costco again) and weirdly enough they said to plant in the Spring NOT fall. Has anyone ever heard of that? I've always done mine in the Fall (already growing ones in pots bought on clearance) and thought they needed like regular bulbs that cold to get them going? I'm planning on ignoring the bag directions and planting now.
Also, I was wondering if any of you have had luck getting peonies to bloom their first full year or how long you've had to wait? I've heard people say three years - mine had always bloomed right away but I guess because they were already growing in pots for a year? Thanks!

I always buy plants already established.
Peonies can be fussy. If you plant them too deep they won't ever bloom.
Dont worry about fertilizing your tulips. They will perform.
After they have bloomed and leaves are dying give them some BulbTone.

ya - I'm kind of thinking of just returning these bulbs - I'm not sure it's worth the trouble when you can buy peonies already established that bloom beautifuly the first year. They were a good deal though so I got sucked in!

Ok.
I am in zone 4 (high desert scrub) and have been growing bubs in container for years. I have considered the bulbs as forced, so I either take them out of the container & plant in the garden, or toss them. But I can give you some helpful (I hope) advice.
And I will, in my next posts- after I get my cat offf my keyboard. This is the next am, and I tried fixing everything too soon, asShe just typed in a row of 4s, because she is up and she has decided that since I'm up, I can feed her...

This message was edited Oct 4, 2008 8:31 AM

Well @#$%^ I was, as you may be able to see, right in the middle of rearranging this post, when my mouse got sticky and I lightly (but not lightly enough) cleaned it with a barely damp cloth. It sent the message WELL before I was done writing anything, and just after I edited it and made cold & water the first issue, istead of shade! Now I really HAVE to fix it. I should have my act together by morning. I would say right away, but when I'm accidently posting before I have my act together I need LOTS of time.

Ok. Here is the post close to how I meant to write it. I hope.
(I had to run downstairs, tell my husband why I was not helping him clean the guest room for a son's visit. He started laughing hysterically and made the phone ring and answered it while pretending it was from somebody on the forum...I was not taken in, I've lived with this guy 30+ years. Now that I've provided him with lots of yucks, I don't feel at all bad about not helping him make the bed or vacuum. )

We'll see if I can explain what works for me.

First what kind of shade are we talking about? From trees that will still be leafless when the bulbs are ready to bloom? If the bulbs get early morning sun, and mid-day shade they may be perfectly happy. If you are planting daffs with lots of corals or pinks, YOU WANT mid-day shade- or the colors fade. If the sun appears to be inadequate when the bulbs are coming up move the window box if possible. If it is attached to a window then you should be talking about part-day sun anyway. It may be enough.

Bulbs are really pretty inexpensive- lots of bang for the buck. If you want to see if they'll grow where you want them-try a few. If you are buying from bluestone, their regular prices are pretty good. But if you really want to try bulbs on the cheap, watch for their specials-then you can experiment at 1/2 price. Use the recycling credit to help with shipping costs.

Lots of daffs & some tulips & other bulbs naturalize well-see how they do in the same container year after year. I assume you want to grow something in the window box in summer; I would grow something that doesn't require much water. I left a few bulbs in some of my biggest pots this year, we'll see how they do.

Now the cold issue. You really can't grow most perennials in a container in zone 5 even if they are hardy enough when planted in the ground. So don't leave the window box all alone & especially not up in the air by a window exposed to the cold & snow (read moisture-snow is a good insulator-until it melts! ) on the bottom and side(s).

I put my pots & other containers in three places while it is really really cold & wet (well, wet enough some of the time to rot bulbs-or dry them out entirely)-

1. In my garage, (preferred method) huddled together & covered with old sleeping bags, old comforters, newspapers, etc. I have never been able to force daffodils, hyacinths etc in water & pebbles even in the garage inside a heavy duty ice chest-unless I monitor it very carefully-the water freezes and the hyacinth or other glass breaks. But even if the potting mix (I use a potting soil from a local nursery mixed with vermiculite & peat moss & just enough water) freezes, or feels frozen, the bulbs are always fine. Or so I found, after letting my aforementioned husband persuade me that everything needed to come inside late one winter when it was 40 below. We won't discuss the results here, but I later talked to a local nursery person, who opined the bulbs would have been fine. I left the bulbs alone the next year...and every year since. But I do cover even the ones I plant in the ground with mulch.

2. I also put containers in basement window wells. (the containers go out through the windows-which are large enough for someone to escape in a fire, so large enough for medium size pots to fit through.) They are covered by trash bags filled with straw, crumpled newspaper, etc. Oh, and I do put them in the large thermal bags walmart & sam's club sell in the frozen food department. And styrofoam coolers sold near the ice machine. Watch both of these (bags & coolers) carefully-open the tops & let them air out as needed.
I check the containers very often, water as needed & in the spring when I notice growth, I take the pots out, put them in a sunny but cool room (outside if warm enough) and watch them grow.

3. Finally, I put my largest containers planted with bulbs and perennials together & next to the house then surrounded on other sides by bales of straw. Covered with garbage bags of straw. And a tarp. I check these less often, but I do check. When I see some growth, or it's just warm enough, the pots get moved to wherever I want them, or can get help to move them to-

I need help with the largest containers & sometimes with those in the window wells. But that's what husbands and visiting sons are for. Isn't it?
Last year as we struggled with putting pots back in the window wells, my husband asked,
"Does everybody do this?"

I assured him they did.

I hope this is coherent. Finally. Mostly I hope it helps. Diane

Most tulips come back, at most-and with lots of TLC, 2-4 times. Consider many of them annuals. To find out which ones perennialize try googling 'Tulipa - perennialize' or read about yours in this forum's PlantFiles Cultivar Finder (Tulip, Daffodil Etc) or read the online or paper catalog of Brent and Becky's Bulbs-especially the headings before each class of bulb. Ie, Species, Single Early, Triumph, Darwin etc for tulips; Tanzetta, Trumpet, Jonquil, Miniature etc Daffodils.

There may be other catalogs packed with as much info as Brent and Becky's-tell us about them. Brent and Becky's have a 1/2 off sale in November-in fact so does Bluestone (the specials I wrote about in my last post, are only on a few Bluestone bulbs. The bigger sales are on everything remaining. I think you can figure out how I end up with so many bulbs - more than I could possibly get into the ground before it freezes in zone 4.)
Diane

PS-I don't post at all to anything for the first 13 months I belong, and tonight I post and 1. Screw-up, 2. Explain, 3. Give the smallest bits of information at the greatest length. 4. Can't resist passing ways on ways & places I finally figured things out ...or a few things anyway.
Diane
-the oldrose who is swearing off posting in the foreseeable future-unless to join a co-op.

LOL, oldrose! Don't let it stop you from posting, lots of good ideas :-) Look under your user name to the left of your post, at the bottom it says "edit", if you click on it, you can change your post. I use it all the time- always leaving words out when the brain is working faster than the fingers :-)

Hybrid tulips can be kind of hit and miss as far as rebloom. I've had good luck with Darwin hybrids and Late singles, and even some late doubles. Digging the bulbs out of the planters when the leaves have yellowed and storing them dry over summer is helpful. Tulips tend to like dry summer baking, and if you're growing something else in the planters for summer it will probably take frequent watering.

I am jumping in here, because I was planning on growing a tulip/daff/hyacinth combo in 2 large planters that flank the drive.

So I when I prep them for the fall I should pull the old soil out and replace with a 50/50 of MG potting soil and fine mulch..and the garage would be a safe place to leave them tucked away to overwinter.

About how much water should I give them..I know they like it fairly dry, but need some moisture... roughly how much how often have you had success with?

Water when top 1/2 inch is dry. I would raise the soil the bulbs will be in so it is higher than the drive way, and remember: never ever use any salt or ice melt on your driveway. I would add some grit to the soil. I see sand recommended-but here when mixed with our clay, you get cement. The local nursery whose planting mix I use much of the time adds grit, or I do. Looser soil may work with course building sand.

If possible, I would use only my own potting mix in a windowbox or other container- it's sterile. Sterilize the box too, as much as you can.

A good article to read is 'Spring Flowering Bulbs: Tulips http://gardengal.net/page68.html

Or read the heading on the Triumph Tulips from Brent and Becky's catalog: http://www.brentandbeckysbulbs.com/spring/genus.php?genusid=55&division=T3

Just noticed Artemiss said she was going to put her bulbs in two large CONTAINERS flanking the driveway. I remember somebody talking about putting them in borders on either side of the driveway- but of course now I can't see that post. Maybe I dreamed it... Anyway, in large containers they certainly won't have problems with drainage or driveway run-off.

Dutch Iris was the only spring bulb I planted under leafy trees which never ever flowered. The foliage came up fine, no flowers. But they bloom in June- when guess what? The trees above them are no longer bare, but have lots of leaves. Morning sun just wasn't enough. But I tried it, so now I know, and plant them in lots of sun.

If you are just going to put the bulbs themselves in the garage- not the entire container with the bulbs in the soil for the cooling time - I haven't done that on purpose and had it work. Sometimes I am still potting up bulbs in January which I meant to get potted up by December at the latest. Since I store the unplanted bulbs in places even more protected than the planted ones in the garage, it still sort of works.

The first article I put a link to in my last post says that Darwin tulip's don't stick around more than a year or two; but Brent and Becky's catalog says that Darwin's do- http://www.brentandbeckysbulbs.com/spring/genus.php?genusid=55&division=T4 and I just read another catalog that says the same thing about Darwin's- http://www.paghat.com/tulipaportofino.html . I have a feeling that some early and late tulips do as well. But not, as I found out to my disappointment, Angelique. Just looked it up here in PlantFiles -about a month ago. Guess what I worked hardest to replant most of this past spring? You guessed it...

So I think you just have to do some homework either before you buy the bulbs, or if buying on impulse, just after. Ask the store about the return policy and hang onto your receipt. Most stores will take bulbs back- but be courteous- do your homework, make up your mind quickly and return what you don't want right away. The season for selling bulbs is short too.
Diane

artemiss, you could probably just amend the soil that's in your containers, perhaps with fine mulch or grit. I sometimes use chick grit (ground granite) from the local feed store; the particles are bigger than sand and promotes better drainage. Although I do use sterile potting mix for seed starting and house plants, I don't typically worry about it for outdoor use.

oldrose, Darwin tulips and Darwin Hybrid tulips are 2 separate classes of tulips, with the Darwin Hybrids being the better of the 2 for repeat bloom. The class name of Darwin tulips has been changed to Late Single tulips (still referred to as Darwins in many catalogs), and some return pretty well for me, but it seems to depend on the variety. Darwin hybrids are Late singles crossed with Fosteriana (Emperor) tulips, and have larger blooms and bloom earlier. There are some DH tulips sold as "perennial tulips" that have been grown in the fields an extra year for extra large bulbs. I've tried them and they bloomed for 3 years running before I moved from that home; I've read reports of gardeners getting repeat blooms for 7 years from them.

Most of the species tulips I've tried have returned well, and some increase. They're smaller in stature than the hybrids and don't have the same look as what we typically think of as the classic tulip, but do offer an airy, wildflowery quality not typically seen in tulips.

Diane / Oldrose - I just LOVED your posts. I've had "cat on the keyboard" symdrome before... had to
explain to DH why I was stuck on line and even moments of whacky wording. Loved your posts.

I've had very good success forcing bulbs. The earlier they normally bloom, the better. I actually bought
a new refridgerator for my seed starting and bulb forcing. If you have problems with drainage in the
flower boxes, put the bulbs in small pots and force them. When they are peeking out in the spring,
put the pots in your flower boxes, covered by moss or even dirt til they bloom. I know they say forced bulbs
don't come back but I have had good luck there too.

Hyacynths do well for me in the refridgerator in a forcing glass. Water just barely touching the base. If you
put any of the bulb itself in the water, it will rot. Check every few weeks & replenish water to just barely touching
the base. They will put out roots and grow a green start on top. They take about 16wks so don't pull out
too soon.

I have a funny story about tulips. I pot them up and cover with grocery bags. This keeps the soil moist but
allows them to breath a little. Well.. about 12-14yrs ago I ran out of space in my refridgerator and my boy
friend was essentially living at my place and had an empty fridge. So I sent him home with a bunch of pots
of tulips. I asked him to pull out a couple in Feb, a few more in Mar and then told him take them all out in
early Apr. Well.. in mid-June he brought me a pot he'd missed. The tulips had pushed their folliage right thru
the grocery bag and were white from lack of sun. I put 'em outside for some sunshine but the bulbs blasted...
just empty husks.

I have tulips coming back that the previous owner planted. We bought the property in 1997. Don't know what
they are but lovely big yellow & red beauties.

Thanks Oldrose and Geminisage!
I would have never thought about putting tuplips and daffs in containers before DG, and now I am excited to have a new place for some of the less perennial tulips!

I've planted bulbs in containers on my 6th floor balcony for years. Most years they do fine if they don't get waterlogged. Some years there's enough snow cover, but not ordinarily. It's pretty dry here so I do water them from time to time over the winter. I wouldn't plant bulbs in my window boxes hooked onto the balcony railing because they're too exposed. I did have some lamiastrum come back this spring that was planted in one of the window boxes. It's doing beautifully now. I was shocked! But I've never tried the small bulbs in the window boxes. Maybe I should. They're cheap to experiment with. Here's a picture of last spring's bulbs (just spring bulbs, I had a lot of lilies planted too and they all did fine). I put most of the pots up against the wall along with my other perennials and they do fine over the winter. Even the ones not close to the wall do fine too.

Great balcony garden.That should be a forum of its own.