Has anyone done homemade boxes that are smaller?

Jerry, all sounds great but I'm a little concerned that if the whole bottom of the bucket is sitting in water/nutrient, too much will be wicking up to your mix, and the roots won't get enough oxygen. Someone else chime in here with comments.

BocaBob

Texas Rock Garden: Looking at your pic; I don't feel so bad now, my front room is starting to look like a garden supply store with all the seed starting stuff. LOL

TPlant: I will look up the link that I printed out to give to my male white slaves, as they call themselves lately, as I work them very hard around here, for making HEBs, there is in these directions how to build your own HEBs from anything from pails to an 8 foot food grade fresh water tank for a boat. Now that last one is extremely large. You can then see how to do it and let us know if you think it will work? And yes, if it will, I probably will want one how bout you? LOL I could plant a whole garden in that thing.
joy112854

The idea is to not let water/nutrient stand in the bottom continuously. W/N is applied the day before the plants wilt (my rule of thumb). The amount of W/N will depend on how often the plants wilt. There should not be W/N standing in the tub for a very long time because as you pointed out the growing medium will water log.

The timing and the amounts of W/N is based on the weather and other growing conditions same as for your drip and spray systems that you have on timers. If it rains and the tubs fill up and the plants stop taking up water, then the tubs will need to be emptied. For draining purposes a 1/4 or 3/8" hole could be drilled in the bottom side of the tub and plugged with a cork. This way the heavy 5 gal bucket with staked tomato will not need to be lifted up to remove the tub for dumping.

I can see an advantage to the grow bags over the buckets w/tubs in that water will run thru the grow bags without risk of over watering the plants. I like this feature. A concern I have about the grow bags is with the open top and how fast the water evaporates from the Coir.

I can see the advantages for the drip/spray systems with these bags, but the system need to be monitored for the amount of water being applied in relation to the plants needs, which is based on growth rate, temperature, etc.

It seems that the bottom line is that we must talk to our plants every day to keep them healthy. LOL

Amen. I talk to my plants everyday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Now that I understand better what you want to do, that will work great. As any of my plants grow, they shade the open tops of the grow bags. The coir stays moist all the time, but I also W/N everyday. I have been told that plants need to eat and drink just like us- everyday. I have followed that advice this season with spectacular results. I don't worry at all about over watering or over feeding. They take what they want and the extra drains away. Just a different philosophy.

BocaBob

Bob: Your plants look so delicious one could almost eat the picture. LOL

TPlant and anyone else interested here is the link that shows how to make a self-contained watering container from anything from a bucket to an 8 ft food grade fresh water tank for a boat. www.seattleoil.com/Flyers/Earthbox.pdf
joy112854

Devota -- You can grow any corn your heart desires. I like Silver Queen and many other bi-color varieties. Sixteen stalks to the EB. Eight on each side with fertilizer in the middle and I always direct seed corn.

Joy -- I still prefer the real EBs as they really work for me plus I have a uniform neat garden for which I am kind of fussy on appearance. Also I believe in the saying "If it works don't fix it!"

This message was edited Dec 26, 2008 5:10 PM

TPlant: I need your expertise and everyone else's though. Would this work, can you go take a looksee and let me know if you think it would? If so, that would be one huge garden there. For you I wouldn't change a thing, as you have a beautiful set up the way you have done yours.
joy112854

Tplant, thanks. that is what I will plant in my EB and since it seems BocaBob had better success out of seed planting that is what I will do. {See I am finally old enough to profit from someone elses experiences.

Joy I looked at the link you mentioned and I can see that basically lots of plastic/rubber containers could be used but what do you think of the abundant use of the PVC pipe? I read that it can leach bad stuff into your soil. TPlant? Bob? Is there any real danger of that because most of the boxes I've seen used the PVC and a couple of the designs on this last site used a lot. D

This is one of my favorite forums although I just mostly lurke and seldom post. But most of my gardening experiments over the last 4 years pretty much mirrors Boca Bobs as far as types of containers and growing mediums are concerned and I thought I might add some opinions here about container growing.

First......do not even consider mixing container growing with "organic" gardening. It can be made to work but the chances for something going wrong increases directly in proportion to the amount of dirt, cow poo, chicken poo, etc. in your containers. The two types of container medium I have learned to favor is Coir and Perlite. Coir by itself cannot be overwatered for the vast majority of plants as Bob says. One exception for me has been rosemary but I just emptied the rosemary pot, plant and all, and mixed a couple double handfuls of perlite (thats about four dollops if you wont precise measurements) with the coir and repotted. Problem solved. Perlite holds less moisture than coir so a mixture of the two creates a faster draining more areorated mix. But again, with straight coir as Bob has been saying, it seems to be almost impossible to overwater the vast majority of plants. Good draining mix is a must.

If using nursery pots (my favorite is 5 gallon size, free for the taking from a local nursery) which will be sitting on bare ground, concrete, or landscape fabric, you should cover the bottom drain holes of the pot with screen wire or landscape fabric to keep out the pill bugs and other such critters. That is not absolutely necessary, but if you like to tinker, it is something to do rather than build more self-watering containers.

My coir mix is only about 3 years old and I dont see any problem with it deteriating like peat does so I will keep using it untill I notice it packing down too much or holding too much water, etc. Maybe add a little perlite in the future. This aint rocket science type of stuff, just trying to repeat what has worked for me. I had a mixture of 80% perlite and 20% vermiculite that started out about 3 years ago and the vermiculite is starting to feel "slimy". Im learning to prefer the coir.

I practice "square pot" gardening in the sense that I consider a 5 gallon pot as being one square foot and plant in accordance with Mel Bartholomew's Square foot gardening system instructions as far as distance between plants is concerned. Succession planting from small pot to larger pot thru the growing season and you can grow a lot of garden produce finished off in 5 gallon containers. After harvest, just dump the pot in a wheel barrow, sort out the old plant roots for the compost pile, re-pot and replant. When you repot and replant, mix a small dollop of slow release fertilize into the mix. Thats supposed to be good for about 3 months of growth without more fertilize but I have good success with adding a daily watering with a very, very weak liquid fertilizer also.

Self watering containers are not something I am overly enamored with. They seem like more work and expense than is necessary when compared with a five gallon container not to mention the expense. Compare the price of an earthbox and the necessary gro-mix for instance against what you pay for the 5 gallon grow-bags of coir and the way I figger it, you can get at least twice the growing area with the grow bags for the same money not to mention less clean-up work at the end of season.

I dont mind watering daily. It gives me a chance to visually inspect and enjoy the plants while laughing at my silly chihauhau battling those evil bugs and butterflies. But I have had automatic watering systems rigged up before similiar to that described in some of Bob's posts. Im moving my gardening operation to the opposite side of my property inside a deer proof fence and will eventually get a complete drip watering system set up there.

I have spent a lot of money in my gardening experiments. As a former organic gardener down in Louisiana where I had plenty of ground to grow in, I had a hard time getting past my dirt farmer background. Once I got the dirt out of my pots, things started looking up. For me now, its a container, coir or coir and perlite mix, slow release fertilize buttressed with daily weak water soluable fertilizer. Containers can vary but I prefer the nursery pots of about 5 gallon size which I can physically handle as I am constantly adding to and rearranging things. One year, I had a bunch of those $2.65 styrofoam picnic coolers from walmart......held about 4 to 5 gallons of mix and worked fine. Concrete mixing pans from HD are heavy duty, about 2x2 ft. and are great for growing mesclun mixes year round and only cost about $5 each. Aint container growing wonderful? Once I found some heavily waxed (maybe varnished) cardboard boxes behind the produce department of Albertson's Grocery store that lasted almost two years as a container. My son is a paiinting contractor so 5 gallon plastic containers can be had by the dozens. Lots of containers can be had for a little of nothing but there is one thing a contaiiner gardener cant afford to go cheap on..........and thats the grow mix. The coir or the coir-perlite mix cost a little more in the beginning but last a long time without all the pathological problems of dirt.

Jaywhacker,

Hallauya! You are near me, so can you please tell me where I can get the 5 gal grow bags locally.

Sounds like you have a good system for the Hill Country. If I am following you correctly, you would not mix coir with a fine grade of compost even though the coir will eventually turn into compost itself. My thinking about doing this (without realizing any downside effects) was that it would add micro nutrients that fertilizers or water soluble plant foods would lack.

I have thought about a drip system for 2010 when there will a bit more time on my hands. My understanding of this type system dates to the 60's and 70's and that from a pressure regulated main line drip lines were run to each plant with the amount of water going to each plant being controlled by the size of the emitter. This would allow for watering from the same main line all plants regardless of size or water demand requirements of individual plants.

Just the other day a spray system was explained to me that used a tiny spray head attached to a spike that just stuck along side a plant. The rest of the system was pretty much the same as the emitter type. I forgot to ask how or if this system would work for a multitude of different plants having different water requirements. In other words I didn't ask if the tiny spray heads came in varying sizes. If they don't, there is probably a way to do this, it's just that I haven't gotten to that level of understanding the spray system yet.

Jerry, I use a spray device called the Aqua Turret for watering/feeding my 5 gallon grow bags.. This device has 3 individual flow rates and a shut off.They are connected to micro tubing, then to a 1/2 inch line. They are Ideal for all crops since the flow rate can be adjusted to the watering requirement of the individual plant. They are very, very cheap.

BocaBob


This message was edited Dec 26, 2008 8:57 PM

Devota

I personally don't worry about that, plus I don't have a answer either. Almost everything we touch in our lives is plastic of some kind. What I worry about is all the chemicals the farmers use to make our produce pretty. Down here in Florida where most of the tomatoes and cukes a grown for the whole country, the extension service told me you won't believe how much they need to spray the crops to control the bugs and diseases. I control my veggies with all organic sprays.

BocaBob

This message was edited Dec 27, 2008 6:44 AM

BocaBob, You are probably right. That is why we buy organic. Devota

Texasrockgarden............

You can find lots of info on the web about drip systems. Our local walmart has most of the stuff you need, as does HD and Lowe's. I got a little free manual from Walmart about Orbit Dripmaster systems which is very informative. As for getting the gro bags locally, I need to do some research on that. I have always got my coir from HydroGardens and they have the gro bags and the lay flat bags too. I also got some coir from verti-gro. Also Boca Bob on this forum has recently started selling the coir products thru the market site on this forum and has gained a lot of valuable experience with them that he shares with us. Bob has the white gro-bags which is probably better to use in our hot hill country summers although I have only used the black bags so far. If I find any local sources or nearby sources to save on freight costs I will let you know. Freight is kind of funny on that kind of stuff. Sometimes a small amout can cost as much to ship as a larger amount

Everyone: Just a precaution for everyone to look at when using containers other than GPs and EBs, make sure the container has the numbers 1, 2, 4, or 5 inside the recycling symbol, you definately need to stay away from using the container as an HEB if it has the numbers 3, 6 and 7 on it as that means it has chemicals that will leach out into the potting mix, and if the chemicals are leaching out into the potting mix, your plant is getting the chemical and thus you wind up with the chemical in your body by eating that plant. Same with PVC pipe for a watering tube, use something else, such as aluminum tubing, garden hose ( as long as it's marked drinking-safe) or copper. I had used a pail that I had bought laundry detergent in, and went and checked the number in the recycling symbol to make sure it is safe to use, it is; but, we all need to check this to make sure.
joy112854

Excellent info Joy! Thank You....

Joy, glad you brought this out since I want to use care in construction. Better to be safe. I want to die of OLD age not chemicals.

Can anyone tell me the dimensions (length x width x height) and the weight of the 5 Gal Grow bag in it's dehydrated compressed state?

Thanks

Jerry

Never mind. I found what I need in Austin about two blocks from my credit union. I have to make a trip to the Credit Union on Tuesday and will get what Coir and bags I need then. I will need to fill the bags myself, but my labor is free.

Thanks for all y'alls input.

This message was edited Dec 27, 2008 2:19 PM

TPlant you are welcome and Devota I agree with you there, home grown veggies are so much better for you when you really find out what they have on them from the groceries, and that is probably why a lot of people like growing their own, so no need to introduce chemicals when we don't need them right? I own both EBs and GPs and they are made from quality products that are UV protected and no harmful chemicals in them.
joy112854

Joy, I did indeed look into the farm tank. Just as I suspected. It was 69 bucks and only 30 gallons and sooo I guess I will keep looking for the ultimate big box/little cost item. Can't find an 8 ft food grade boat water storage tank here in the mountains. You continue to dream of a giant box and I will keep my eyes open. D in TN

Devota: I am trying to save enough moola before Spring to order 10 more EBs, that happens, I'll be good to go. LOL
joy112854

I can't see paying the price for those Earthboxes when safe, effective alternatives can be made at home. I'm so thankful for the info out there about building them!

gardenwife -- That is the way I felt until I bought them w/o the mix as that kills you on freight so I bought my own from the nurseries and saved big $$$. Once you try one the results are remarkable and carefree. Home made are hit n miss and an entire season is usually wasted as a result. Besides they are guaranteed. I'm willing to bet you if you tried just one you'll most definetely buy more as they last forever. And "NO" I don't get kickbacks although I should?

Gardenwife: They are not that expensive, if you just buy the EB itself, it's $29.95 plus about $8 shipping; keep in mind though, that the material it's made from is UV protected and like TPlant says is guaranteed to work. I love mine, you save more money when you buy in groups of 5 or 10. I'm going to try the HEBs too; but, I will have plenty of stuff planted in my EBs in case they don't work too. What is that saying "never count all your chickens until they hatch"? LOL I won't be without my peppers and tomatoes or cukes this year.

Planting season for me is the end of March, as that is when the last frost date is passed. Now my problem is this, when do I plant the seeds in the seed starting kits so they are ready to be moved to the EBs in March, I know now, from experience, that my corn seeds are going directly into the EB, 4 per hole, and then I'll weed out the weaker 3. But; I know the peppers take a while and not sure about the maters. My tomaotes must have some stem to them, as some of them are going into the topsy turvy's.
joy112854

Start seeds at least six weeks before and plant out two weeks after frost date to make certain. Peppers will need a heat mat to germinate properly. Bocabobs planting kit may eliminate the need for a heat mat because of the large enclosed dome. Just set in a sunny place or use a heat mat or both to make sure. Allow time as you really should transplant the seedlings at least once into four inch containers before final planting to strenghten them up with quarter dose of Miracle-Gro.

TPlant: So, if everyone is starting to plant in March (end of March here); I should be seed starting around the middle of January or first of February? Yes, I've come to the conclusion that I will not only be starting my beloved tomatoes in Bob's seed starting kit; but possibly the peppers too. If you remember right I got a late start last year on my peppers and they did not do so well, so, I'm craving peppers this Spring/Summer. LOL I can start the rest in Park's Bio Dome, if it arrives in time, if not, the Burpee seed starting kit or Gardener's Supply APS should suffice, I have both of those, done with the peat pellets though. Gave those to Mike to have a headache with along with the huge coconut coir pellets. LOL
joy112854

Joy, Remember your "sugar plum" dream? Here is a thought for a pretty good sized HEB that I am going to try: I use 30 gal barrels for my rain barrel system and now that I have all I need and I still have access to more I am going to cut the barrels in half and use the bottom half for the EB and the top rim which has two [2 inch] holes for the screen which might be appropriate wick areas.
It is # 2 on the recycle system. They come from my local car wash and are free. I only get the ones that had detergent in them and clean them out thouroughly. That will give me 20 inch circumference. with 4-5 inches for water and 14-15 inches for the coir it should be perfect. What think you? Anyone see anything I should tweak to make this idea better?

Correction: I should have said one of the 2 inch holes would accept inch and a half pvc [drinking safe,] fill tube. They come with screw plugs so one could be closed off and then a wicking chamber would be made in the usual way. hmmm?

Devota: Wow, that sounds great, I hope you will share your idea with pics and instructions when you make them. My friend pointed me in the right direction when I asked him for his 5 gallon pails, told me "no" and it was a firm "no" too; but told me about a guy who uses them all the time and will probably have a whole bunch for the taking just for my asking. When this next weekend rolls around I will be asking this guy about the 5 gallon pails, I have two 5 gallon pails for one HEB already.
joy112854

I will post pics of the process. I guess this will keep Grammy busy while counting down to spring. Tee hee

I've gotten large buckets from the bakery department at a local large grocery store. They get pie filling and icing in huge buckets. I used my buckets for brining poultry, but I could just as easily make HEB's from them.

Gardenwife, You absolutely can. Have you seen the link that shows how to make HEBs from 5 gallon buckets?

Yes, I have. I was thinkingI could partially bury my HEB's in the existing raised bed so they look like they're in the ground. We have to grow our veggies in front of our house since that's the only spot getting full sun.

Devota: Yes, that would keep me busy and out of trouble, anyone need any home made mold? I seem to be real good at making that out of peat pellets and seeds these days. I planted all those seeds Dec 23rd, they thrived yet were covered with this white mold all over, and I haven't watered them at all since the 23rd? But my Summer Cheer Daffodil is beautiful, it is in full bloom will try and get a pic to post that. I'm definately planting my tomato seeds and pepper seeds in bob's coconut coir seed starter kit. Either that or open up a mold business.
joy112854

Joy, LOL. Sorry. If there was a rarity of mold in the garden business you'd be set. Will it hurt the seedlings, do you think? Or will they just shake it off when they get some sunshine? I really don't know. Devota

If you can buy a small fan like the ones that would be used on the dashboard of a car w/o a/c. I have one with fans that are made of cloth for safety but don't remember where I bought it. The mold forms from lack of air flow. Besides you will have stronger plants.
Ted

Back to the pvc pipe question, if you don't mind . . . Devota had asked back in December about the use of PVC pipe . . and joy112854 had mentioned to use containers with 1, 2, 4, or 5 on them . . . but I'm not sure if that also pertained to the use of pvc pipe? I went and looked at pvc pipe at home depot, and there are alot of numbers on those things! I didn't see any recycle symbol, though . . . do they look different on pvc?

No symbols on PVC pipe that I know of. PVC that says 40 or schedule 40 on the pipe itself is used for drinking water. I use only that now that I know.

Thanks! I'm pretty sure that the pvc I saw said something about 40 on it - so if it's good for drinking water, then it would also be good for plants! I am going to make my first HEB this weekend . . .

Oh, and one more confession . . . I've become a "coconut". I didn't purchase from BB, but I did find a hydroponic store locally that sold it, so I got a small brick and a big block of it . . . will work on hydrating that tomorrow!

schedule 40.