Ipomoea hederifolia
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/58095/
Synonym:Ipomoea coccinea var. hederifolia
Ipomoea cristulata
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/112321/
Synonym:Ipomoea coccinea var. hederifolia
I know this has been discussed on here a couple of times now but I am still confused, please bear with me Ron! Are I. hederifolia and I. cristulata one and the same or are these 2 distinct species?
If in fact they are 2 different species, which one is my plant?
flower
pod
flower again
Thanks for the reply Joseph, so cristulata and hederifolia are not the same species then? Glad to have an ID for my plant, thankyou!
Hi Lynn - The reason the synonyms are there is because at some point it was not clear to botanists as to whether there was or should be an Ipomoea coccinea var.hederifolia,but it has since been clarified that Ipomoea cristulata is definitely a distinct species from Ipomoea coccinea and Ipomoea hederifolia....all 3 distinct species can display either cordate or multi-lobed leaves and the definitive ID is based upon some specifics about the peduncle,pedicels,calyx and stamen and pistil measurements...
The plant you have posted is definitely not Ipomoea hederifolia due to the pedicel and sepal characteristics...
I believe that the plant you posted (based upon what I can see) is
Ipomoea cristulata
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/112321/
Hope that helps...
Ron
This message was edited Sep 18, 2008 10:33 PM
That helps tons Ron, thank you! Is there something else I can do to get a more definitive ID, more pics, measurements?
You should know this is in fact grown from seed obtained in the mountains north of here, got lucky finding it lol
Hey Lynn - If you want to tweak the ID then you have to
1) measure the exact total length of both the pistil and the stamens in mm's...
2) measure the exact length that the stamens and pistil protrude past the mouth of the tube in mm's...
That should do it...
TTY,...
Ron
OK, I made an abysmal attemp at measuring....or taking pics of it anyways
another
more
better pic of the pod
another
Lynn - The photos are very good and it's helpful that you took alternate views...
So far it is still looking like Ipomoea cristulata...but I'd like to see the diameter of the flower limb...how wide is the flower when fully expanded (?)...
TTY,...
Ron
P.S. - Ipomoea cristulata is basically a scaled down Ipomoea coccinea and the web is absolutely 'littered' with contradictory parameters...
I've wondered if there really is a difference at the taxonomic rank of species myself...
Arizona State University actually has at least several of the exact same vouchered (!) specimens entered as both Ipomoea coccinea and Ipomoea cristulata...(!)
There are some reported biochemical differences,but these could actually represent different selections of geographic strains and not real differences in bona fide distinct species...depending on how many different samples from different geographic areas were actually used in the biochemical studies...the results could be misleading...and the fact that I.sloteri (a hybrid containing I.coccinea) also mysteriously produces the same alkaloids as I.cristulata raises real questions...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15652579
Hi Ron,
There really is a lack of knowledge in this state regarding all Ipomoea species so I'm not surprised ASU is no different. They really have not been collected and conserved in any way (as I know you know), disregarded by cotton farmers as an unworthy weed genus, so these natives are not in cultivation here at all. A few of us have found I. longifolia for purchase locally, I find that amazing, so I think there's hope for other of our natives to start making mainstream, when that happens maybe some of this misunderstanding will dissolve. But then I think, no, because this same sort of misunderstanding exist in nearly every corner of the trade........so many mislabeled and misidentified plants :(
I will measure the flower opening width this week :o)
L
