Hey - just moved to CA. As you can see, our backyard beckons me daily (we just moved in). While, I'm delighted there is no grass to pull out; I really need to get moving on this.
The soil is rocky to say the least. I have put in a few things (on the recent 105 day whew!) I'm going to have to stick to some toughies I think, half the slope is full sun, the other half partial.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated !
this might show the slope a bit more ?
Congrats on the new place! I see you wound up in Livermore after all even after all of us warned you about DH's commute! LOL Hopefully he doesn't find it too bad. Looks like you've got a total blank slate to work with there--if you decide you don't want to do all the work yourself let me know and I'll give you the name of the landscaping company I used for my yard (they're in Livermore). If the soil on the slope is rocky and poor you might consider doing a couple of terraces and filling them in with some good topsoil, that'll make the garden easier to access and also make it easier to plant and make the plants happier. No need to get moving in a hurry though--as hard as it is to resist an empty garden, the plants will do better if you wait until fall to start anything, so I'd use your time now to go check out some local nurseries (Alden Lane is a nice one in Livermore) and start planning and getting ideas but resist the urge to plant anything just yet! You'll also find it much easier to dig holes if you wait until after we've had a good rain or two. If you want, you're welcome to come over here some weekend and I can show you the sorts of things that are doing well for me--I've got a west facing hill which I've terraced, it gets full sun from about 9-10 AM until the sun sets so anything that's surviving there ought to like your hill just fine! And our climates are very similar, you might be just a teensy bit warmer in the summer and teensy bit colder in the winter, but not more than a degree either way so anything that's doing well in my yard ought to do well for you in similar sun/shade conditions. D-mail me if you're interested in coming by sometime!
Also, I think you'll find you're really in zone 9a not 9b...if you zoom in on the zone map and look at the bottom right corner of Alameda county which is where Livermore is, you'll see it's actually 9a not 9b (I'm in the same unfortunate situation here in Dublin...I used to think I was in 9b here but when I noticed I couldn't grow all the same plants as I could when I was 25 miles north in Martinez I investigated further and learned that we've actually got a pocket of 9a down here). http://images.meredith.com/bhg/pdf/gardening/hardiness/hzm_California.pdf The Sunset zones as usual are much more useful, I am 90% sure you're in Sunset zone 14 like I am but it wouldn't hurt to doublecheck.
My front yard is "fleabane" http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/1648/ (I love that common name ;-})
Drought tolerant, takes the sun & heat (although I am a bit cooler over the hill) The exposure for mine is South, so it really gets the brunt of the sun. I try to mow or rake it at least once a year, late in the season so I get a good growth in the spring.
Another possibility is "Monkey Grass" http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/53516/ and I have about a dozen starts in 4" pots if you would like.
Japanese Anemone can fill in an area http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/77290/ but I find it a bit too invasive with it's runners (i.e. I can give you some if you want)
Also check out Western Garden Nursery, just down the road http://davesgarden.com/products/go/view/468/ from Alden Lane. They started out in Hayward and moved to a skinny little strip of land when the Hayward location became to valuable to waste on plants!
If you are patient, I can offer you some small birch trees to begin to get some shade. I unfortunately planted a few too many and I am swimming in birch seed, but I do enjoy not having any lawn to mow and the large number of birds that visit.
Welcome to the Bay Area!!!
Hello Redtootsiepop, congrats on the new place! I also bought my home recently, and I have a slope to deal with too. However, mine is much more steeper, yours seems like a piece of cake! Ecrane's advice to terrace with good soil first and waiting until fall to plant should not be taken lightly!
Why don't we all post some pictures of our slopes landscaping? I'm always searching for inspiration too... I don't have a picture to post right now but I will try to post one later today.
Rob
It would take too long for me to post all my pics, but here's a link to my diary, it shows the before and after shots of all my hills. The one in the front yard I left as a hill, and the one in the backyard I terraced because it was a little steeper and too hard for me to get around on for weeding, etc (not that the one in the front yard is a piece of cake! LOL)
http://davesgarden.com/community/blogs/m/ecrane3/ Or I posted pics on landscaping.com too, there the pics are nicer because the thumbnails are bigger http://landscaping.com/ls/user.php?user=ecrane3 I need to post some updated photos on both of them, but you'll get the idea.
AHHH !!! Thanks for all the advice ! I will take them all to heart (except for being patient and not digging, already broke that one!)
ecrane, I would love to come see what you've done- and thanks for the zone advice, I'm sure you are spot on. I was thinking terracing too, and am tempted to just dump compost, etc., on now to make it easier to dig... so far I've hit ALOT of rocks, all small - but lots of them. The commute is not enviable, to be sure - but he works from home Friday, so that is a help... also, goes in early comes home around 7pm, so better than the real rush hour times. Still, it is long.
Rob - would love to compare notes! .. How steep are you dealing with? I know mine isn't terrible, but I am itching to see it filled up.
fleabane/potemup - I am off to look at your pictures (and ecranes, which I know I've drooled over before) - to get some ideas. I would love to take some birches off your hands :) - I am patient with plants, but not empty yard, lol. It's easier to dig for as well - also, the birches will remind me of OR, no doubt -- the finches would fill the birch trees, so cute.
I'm with you - I'm thinking no grass for the back.
Ok, off to water the poor dehydrated plants I did put in, they are hanging on so far. I've been wanting to visit Alden Lane, and now I will add Western Garden to my trip as well.
Thanks so much for all the advice / help suggestions! Rob, I'm looking forward to seeing what you're dealing with.
I'm not sure if you're planning to add drip irrigation to your hill (which I think is a great idea). If you do, you need to keep in mind that anti-siphon devices have to be installed higher than the water lines that go to the plants. A friend of mine ran into this in her backyard. She had to run a line up to the top of the hill, install an anti-siphon, and run the drip irrigation down to the plants.
I love my drip system and wouldn't have much of a garden without it.
With rocky soil and a california climate there are all sorts of neat native plants you can grow including penstemons and succulents and bulbs like calochortus that need dry soil in the summer.
Good luck!
I definitely recommend waiting until Fall to plant! We didn't, as we were worried about erosion, and lost probably 50% of what was planted. Like Katlian, we have steeper slopes, and the gardening can be really different.
I've been having really terrible luck lately with summer planting--it's one of those things I know you shouldn't do but I can never resist so I ignore my own advice and do it anyway! At my old house in Martinez I had some protection from sun during the hottest part of the day in most of the garden so I was able to get away with it, but here with most of my garden on west-facing slopes I have lost enough stuff that I really think I'm going to follow my own advice from now on and not plant in the late spring or summer. I still buy things I like at the nursery (that part is too hard to resist!) but then I keep them in pots for the summer, I've got a couple decks that either just get AM sun or have some shade during the hottest part of the day so they do great there, then I will put them in the garden in the fall.
haha I have the same problem! I tell myself: "no planting in the summer time"! And then I see something-I-can't-live-without and there I go doing what I know is wrong..of course I lose half of those too! I'll take some pics when I get home from work!
Wow Ecrane! I just saw your pictures, I'm very impressed with the amount of work you've done! I wish I could get some stairs like that too.
Before you get too impressed...I paid landscapers to do all the heavy lifting, building steps, retaining walls, etc. The backyard I did the design and I did all the planting after they put in the walls, gravel, etc, but in the front yard I didn't even do that much--I had a designer plan out most of the front yard because I wanted it to look nice (rather than being a giant plant collection like the backyard!) and the landscapers did all the hardscape, planting, etc.
Hi,
I hope you don't mind me popping in to this thread! Welcome, Redtootsiepop - I remember chatting a bit, when your husband was interviewing. Hope you're enjoying CA living.
Ecrane, we've never "spoken" but I've respected your knowledge & input on many threads. Now you've got me worried about the concept of "fall" planting. I had a ball buying plants, last weekend, (at the 30% nursery sale) to plant my new xeric garden, on my hillside. I planned to put them in the ground the weekends of Sept. 13/14 & 20/21... however, based on your posting, I'm concerned that we will still be in the midst of Indian summer & my new plants will fry in their full sun location. On the other hand, I'm concerned that they won't last more than a couple of weeks in their little 4" pots. I'm hoping that the cooler nights & my cooler side of the bay location (we're in the hills above Redwood City) will save me. I'd welcome your input!
Thanks.
Liz
well, at least I'm not the only one who has a difficult time being patient. .... and I know you're right about waiting.
Kaperc, I will undoubtedly lose some too - all my own fault.
I didn't put too many items in, and some were bulbs (crinums, which are sending up some tiny green so they're holding on) The salvia, echinacea, aristea major and agastache look good, euphorbia looks GREAT (of course). And I'm worried about the cussonia paniculata "mountain cabbage tree" - it's a 50/50 at this point.
*** this is all due to my dh giving me a gift cert. to Annie's Annuals - they had a sale and I couldn't STOP myself!
I do have everything else in pots for now - Katlian, thanks for the comments on the drip, yes that is what we are going to do for the slope and messing up the anti-siphon sounds exactly like something I would do - now I'll remember to pay attention !!!
LIz - yes I remember ! It's great to have you pop in. :)
I can recommend Mission Irrigation for getting your sprinkler/drip system supplies. They deal primarily with contractors, but have good prices and all of the pieces you will ever need.
37576 Mission Blvd, Fremont, CA 94536 (510) 796-7473
Take 84 through Niles Canyon to Mission Blvd. Make a right and it is on the right just after you go under the railway crossing.
I typically do my fall planting in late October through early December (I know towards the end that's more like winter planting! LOL) That way the temps aren't hot anymore and rains have either started or are on the way. Over here I would not even think about doing it in September because it is really still more like summer and we can easily have weather in the 90's or 100's. Closer to the coast you can probably start earlier, although it's still advantageous to wait until the rains are on their way, Mother Nature does a much better job watering than we can. I really notice a difference in how newly planted plants behave when they're getting rain vs when I'm the one doing the watering (even in cooler temperatures). I generally don't have trouble with keeping things in 4" pots, I have some things now that I bought as early as May and they're still doing great, even with two heat waves where we got up around 105-110 for a few days. I wouldn't put them in full PM sun, and they'll need to be watered frequently but if you can do that then you'll have less problems with them in pots than you would putting them in the ground too early. If they're on the big side for their pot and it's going to be a couple months before you plant, sometimes it's better to pot them up to a 6" pot, I've done that with several things this summer. All I can say is when I have stuff that I keep in containers over the summer I have at least a 90-95% survival rate (and the ones that die are usually ones that are tucked in a corner and I miss them when I'm watering--I have a LOT of containers!) Versus when I plant them in the garden too soon I'm around a 50% success rate.
I have also killed a couple plants due to not only planting too early (yes, I'm impatient too!) but also, I didn't water properly, thinking since they were xeric plants, they would be fine! Big mistake! Of course now I now better.....even xeric plants need to be pampered until established!
OK, here are a couple of pictures of my slope. See what I'm talking about?
Here is another one. Super steep!
holy cow Rob - now that is a SLOPE !!!!! lol : D
Your palm trees make it look like paradise - what is at the top of that cliff/slope?
Thanks, Ecrane, for your advice. It makes a lot of sense & I'm relieved to hear you say that you've had good luck with maintaining the plants in 4" pots - I have them in an area that's shaded much of the afternoon. I'll wait until mid-late October to plant - hopefully, I can trust my DH to water, when I'm on the East Coast the last week of Sept - maybe I'll set them in pans with standing water for that week I'm gone.
Rob, your slope looks like it could be in Hawaii - beautiful!
Thanks guys! Yes, I absolutely love my garden, I consider myself very lucky! I actually took the love of nature to the extreme, as I bought my (tiny) house because of the garden! : )
At the top of the slope it's pretty wild, just eucaliptus trees and iceplant. Last week I planted a red bougainvillea that I want to cascade over that slope. It's probably going to be a long while....
But I also want to plant something to CLIMB from the bottom to retain that slope...I've been thinking trumpet vine....but haven't decided yet. Pretty steep ey?
This message was edited Sep 4, 2008 3:42 PM
I prefer soaker hoses to drip irrigation. Less trouble and works very well on a slope, but either one is better than hand-watering, LOL. With our current mandatory water restrictions you absolutely do not want to be putting in any plants until the rainy season begins. This is the "tired" time of year - when the combination of heat and dryness really slows down many plants except for well-established xerics.
Like ecrane I really need to update my website, but you can get an idea of my sloping property in the Oakland hills and what we did with it:
https://home.comcast.net/~j.komatsu/gardenphotos.htm
Actually, your exposure is similar to what other regions call "full sun". The high UV index here means that many plants labeled "full sun" by nurseries can actually grow quite well under surprisingly shady conditions.
This photo of our backyard shows what I mean. Due to two mature deciduous trees, in summer the two garden beds that surround them are almost completely shaded the entire day, yet full-sun plants (such as erysimum, artemisia, and New Zealand flax) manage very well.
Jkom51, I saw your website, and the work you have done there is absolutely incredible! So inspiring! Have you designed it all yourself? Wanna come do my yard? lol!
A quick off-topic question but I need to ask! You mention your callas are on the "dry shade" bed. My callas are all green and huge, and zero blooms. Am I watering it too much?
Rob
Mine tend to only bloom when the weather's cooler, typically during the summer they stop blooming and if it's hot enough the leaves will even sometimes start to look ratty and die back, but then when the weather gets cool they perk up again.
ecrane's right (as always!) - callas are cool-soil plants. The hotter the soil, the more they "pack it up" to wait for cooler times. The issue of hot soil/cool soil is often overlooked as we often concentrate on the full sun/partial sun/shade issue, but there are some plants that are very sensitive to soil temps as well.
Good to know, seems like I need to do some moving around this fall!
Redtootsiepop, sorry for the quick slide off-topic!
well, for now I have heeded everyone's advice, I'm just watering what I have (by hand so I don'te waste) but do have a soaker hose to use after I get some top soil and mulch down. I would really love it to be a little cooler before I have that delivered - we'll see if I can contain myself!
And plants I do have are just going to stay in their pots for the time being.
jkom - Your yard is Lovely ! Good to know about the shade - we do get some shade on the slope from a pomengranate tree and a very messy pepper tree from the neighbors yard.
rob, how in the world do you get to the top of that cliff?? Bougainvillla would be beautiful, as would the trumpet vine.... the hummingbirds would love it, too.
oh I don't care about the topic change **, you can even tell me what you're having for dinner!
lol! Well..let me tell you, I never go up there! Actually, since we've moved in in November, I went up there with my husband for the first time last week, to plant that bougie. Going up was ok, but when it was time to come down and I had to LOOK down...I freaked out! I had to go around the neighbors 3 doors down and come down their slope because it was less steep!
I think you might want to read this Fall Planting article in Wednesday's SF Chron, if you didn't see it already:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/09/10/HOLD12K4BR.DTL&type=printable
oooh Thank you jkom - I didn't see that.
I just fed the orange & lemon tree, they seem to be doing well. The orange put out some blooms that smell like heaven! and it does look like the Cabbage Tree is going to pull out ok ...
The moving people finally sent a couple of guys out to put the shed together (they are now) it will be nice to organize all my garden "stuff" - there was a cute little frog hanging out on the walls of the shed.
I'm going to go to Alden Lane this afternoon to have a good look around - and ask if they have any ideas for good compost & mulch delivery..... do any of you have someone to recommend?
** robc, I laughed when I read about you coming down into your neighbors yar d - that would freak me out, too - it looks like its STRAIGHT DOWN! I still can't figure out how you climbed up it ??? Unless you straddled the palm tree??
Hi Toots---welcome to CA! Glad you found a place and are getting settled!
I, too, am having to resist planting before it cools off a bit more. I've been having work done in my yard (at last---I just can't do it all myself). Since nothing's finished yet, I just have to be patient. Yesterday I succumbed and bought two 4-inch and two 1-gal plants. But I swear I already know where they're going and can keep them watered!
Here's a link showing what's been going on at my place for the past 6 weeks:
http://davesgarden.com/community/blogs/t/imapigeon/10168/
When my son lived in Fresno, he had a similar slope on his lot. In the front, we laid down cardboard mulch, then planted through it with 1-gal trailing rosemary plants, placed about 6 feet apart. Within a year they had filled the slope and with almost no weeds.
In the back, we built a retaining wall to level the slope, and then planted a single row of grapevines. As you know, grapes do pretty well in Livermore, so that might work for you there.
IMA!!!!!!!!!!!! So glad to see your post - you got me through a tough spring : ) !!
Your work is FANTASTIC, just got so many great ideas going through your pics of your work - beautiful tiles , ... hey I love the stump, too - looks like he is "dipping" his fingers into the ground.... madge, you're soaking in it !
JUst gorgeous, I'm going back to take another look. I like the idea of the raised beds (w/concrete) - I have an area that is full sun back by my shed, would be great to do a veggie garden..... with those beautiful paths and yes, I was thinking to do some grape vines.
Keep posting those great pics!
Tracy
LOL! the stump will be even more "madge" if I get lights and turquiose glass under it!!
The broken concrete has saved me a TON of money on materials, and I love the way it looks. I'm planning to spray it with moss and yogurt over the winter to make it look more like aged stone.
At the back of the yard, behind the satellite-dish gazebo, I had a bit of a slope, too. Using the raised bed has given me (and the cats) additional seating, and I like the different levels. Originally I wanted rounded berms, but they just didn't fit into our lot.
Tracy,
Now I laugh too, but at the time I was more like crying, lol! Going up was fine, it just required agility and a little arm strengh. But when it came to LOOKING DOWN...OMG...I am totally affraid of heights, and totally freaked out, hahaha
Ima, your pics were very inspiring! I wanted to do some raised beds just like yours..and a water fountain too! Hubbie is convinced doing grout work would be too complicated...
Roberta, my slope is not as steep nor as high as yours, but I did get stuck one day. I was sitting down pulling weeds and just could not get back on my feet or scoot down! Wrists were too weak and I couldn't find footing. Finally, I was able to roll over and crawl to the top. I can't imagine being stuck on your slope. BTW, I hope you'll be able to come to our mini RU in March. http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/896968/
Ima, I'm definitely going to ask DH to start collecting concrete for walls. We have some we used, but it was colored pink and we covered it up as much as possible - it just didn't blend in. Your garden looks great!
there is a pile of concrete pieces in the field across the street, maybe I should make a few runs over with my wheelbarrow.
I saw online (somewhere) a "wall" made with bags of concrete. She laid down rows of conrete (in the bag) got it super wet, let it sit for 3 days, then she pulled the paper off. She had stained it as well I believe, it actually looked nice... If I remember correctly it was 3 bags of concrete high. I'll try to find it again, there are some details missing (like wouldn't the paper get stuck in between - and would you do each row separately?
That was an option I considered, and I do have a few of the bags I wet down mixed in with my chunks; I really like the way they look. The paper bag just erodes away over time---one good CA rainy season is pretty much enough to clean them off. I see them used here around culverts in back-sloped stacks that are maybe 6 - 8 feet high, and they look really cool! I think part of the advantage to that application is that they're easy to stack, and then they're not moved.
It's been apparent as I have worked with them that they're not as strong---they have a tendency to crumble. I think this may be because they're not mixed they don't go through the same chemical changes as poured concrete does. Almost all the ones I've put into my walls are "partial bags" because parts have broken off as I've set them in place.
If they're used somewhere no one would walk, I'm sure they'd be fine. I've noticed they also grow moss on them a lot more easily, so they look natural much faster---but again that could potentially add to their unsuitability for a place where someone would walk.
BTW, rob, mortaring and grouting aren't all that difficult, but they are VERY hard on backs and knees and wrists. I have so much respect for the guys who do this for a living, and do it well. My landscape contractor was having a fit the other day because he was having to line up HIS grout lines with MY grout lines, which aren't absolutely straight because the house isn't straight, the concrete patio isn't straight, the courtyard wall isn't straight.....etc.
The fountain was made at concrete place not all that far from you in SoCal, and I got it at Summerwinds. If I'd been smart, I would have just tiled a little area around the base, but NOOOO----I always have to get in totally over my head. If I had your "slope" (which looks like a palisade to me!) I would probably have decided it needed a hand-carved marble staircase to the top or something. As Mom used to say "champagne taste on a beer income" LOL!
