Norm Dino's paper towel stratification?

Somewhere today I was reading about his method of putting seeds on paper towels (I would use coffee filters,) and putting them into plastic bags and storing them in a dark shed. What happens then? When do they come out of the shed?
etc. etc? It sounds interesting but I can't seem to fill in the blanks.

Mmm - I think his name is spelled Deno - might help you in finding out about him and his methods.

You got the basics; then you check the baggies every few days or weeks or so for sprouts. Once you have a sprout, you pick it out and transplant it to a pot and grow it ... much like you would any seedling.

I'm sure there's a few threads around with refinement on that info, I know a lot of people have used this method in various permutations... I did it with Echinacea and Balsam with good success (actually, I didn't put them in a shed, I kept them on my countertop). I also did Columbine, but then killed the seedlings. I have some in the fridge that didn't do anything on the counter. I think it's currently too warm for the shed - wasn't that mainly for stuff that preferred cold stratification?

Yes, pagancat, it was for stratification. It seemed to me that Deno used simply to stratify for a couple or three months and then removed them (to where?)

I winter sow and have very good success there and I also put containers under lights and they do well too. I think that it was particularly effective with seeds that require maybe two periods of stratification. One could separate the plastic bags and bring the special ones in for 3 weeks or so and put them back outside.

Right about the spelling! Spelling it correctly will help in the research.

Winter sowing is something I'll be trying for the first time this year.

Oy, double stratification .... it would have to be something I really wanted!

I have used this method for several years now, and it is absolute the best method for starting perennials that I have found, bar none. The first year I tried it, I started 75 different seeds in my unheated garage in baggies. All except two germinated. You put the seeds in damp paper towels (I use a solution of liquid kelp for an extra kick) and then fold and press, put in a cheap baggie and leave it open. Don't forget to label the bags. You put the baggies outside in an unheated shed, like an unheated garage, sunporch, what have you. I used a metal cabinet that was on my covered patio this year, and that worked very well. You leave them out there during the winter. They will freeze solid, but it doesn't hurt them any. In spring begin checking them once the temps get out of freezing. Some will start germinating without direct light. Once that happens, I usually spread them out on a table or shelf. Like this year I used wire shelves I had on the covered patio once they started germinating. I checked them maybe every couple of days once I started getting germination. Then just take out and rip up the towel and press the bits with germinated seed into moist planting soil, and there you go. They will grow right through it. No muss, no fuss, and you don't have flats with empty spots, which I hate. This method has helped me to germinate seeds I had no luck in germinating in other ways.

Wow! That means that I can winter sow without having dozens of containers all over the back patio. I find that very exciting. Thanks so much!

Gloriag -
I've used Deno's methods for years. He has written a couple of books (privately published) outlining his methods and specific seed germination data by genus/species. Some varieties don't need the stratification method and could fail to germinate. I've only used water (you may want to use distilled water if your domestic water is treated) to dampen the paper towels and I stash them in my refrigerator since they don't take up much space in the Baggies and I can keep my eye on them. Make sure you use the Baggies brand as they allow some air movement through the plastic (Deno's recommendation). Other brands (different plastics) may not allow this. And I leave the tops open just a bit. In the fridge, the paper towels (anything unbleached is best and I've had some success with unbleached coffee filters) will dry out over the course of weeks. I've read that some seeds shouldn't be frozen (don't know how true this is) so I stick to using the fridge. I've never had the time to delve into some of the more intense methods of breaking seed dormancy.
Is anyone out there aware of whether there's a third book in Deno's series?
Cindy M

Ha - still haven't gotten #1, although I'd sure like to have it.

Pagancat -
The first one - Seed Germination Theory and Practice, Second Edition - was published in 1993. The First Supplement to the Second Edition was published in 1996. There was a great article in Chicagoland Gardening about him. I think there's a second supplement (now that I'm looking at the article) which I may just have to order. You order the books directly from him. Can't remember what I paid though. Here's his address:
Dr. Norman C. Deno
139 Lenor Drive
State College, PA 16801
Did I enable enough?
Cindy M

Pagancat -
Just Googled - the Second Edition is $20 and first and second supplements are $15 each. A bargain!
Cindy M

FABULOUS!

You're my new BFF.

Pagancat -
Glad I could help. I'm sending off for my second supplement tomorrow! I always check Deno first when I get ready to start seeds. Then I check Tom Clothier's database. Never enough tips on a seed packet for me.

Tom Clothier's database? I haven't heard of him.

It's such a great site, it's worth posting a link to it again.

http://tomclothier.hort.net/index.html

Most excellent, thanks!

Pagancat -
Just wanted to let you know (if you're still interested in Deno's books) - I sent off for the second supplement two weeks ago and received it yesterday. It was $15 and I didn't have to pay postage. Just sent a personal check with the request.
CindyM

Thanks for letting me know! I need to get off my YKW and order these - thanks again.