Ravenous Rabbits and other Garden Pests Part #2.

Gita, so sorry to hear of your frustration with your neighbors :( It's tough dealing with "ignorant" gardeners but look on the bright side - she's paid you a huge compliment ..."she wants a garden just like mine" :) The language barrier obviously presents a problem in trying to educate her, but with time maybe she'll learn just by watching you in your gardens - we all had to learn the hard way and our mistakes are probably the best education! LOL

My "garden pests" now include serious damage from voles :( Had been watching the small patch of mini Hostas I had planted earlier this summer - saw the tunnels, stomped them down several times but the Hostas still seemed to be suffering. Upon closer inspection over the weekend while doing a little weeding, the Hostas pulled right out of the ground and the roots were gone!!! #$%*@+ voles :((( I carefully put them back in the soil hoping that the teeny little root that is left might be just enough to keep them hanging on but I'm not so sure now that I'll be adding the Blue Mouse Ears that I have been waiting to plant in this area! With all the Hostas I was planning to add to the gardens this fall I think I definitely rethink my planting strategy :(

RCN, In KyWoods' thread under Shady Gardens forum, Weerobin posted a photo of the three sizes of Gopher cages that he buys. It's in the part II thread. They are called "Diggers Root Guard Gopher Wire Basket" I tried to find them for sale on the web, but could only find reviews for them, not vendors. They would probably be a good choice for you. No way will I let those varmits come between me and my love of Hosta!!!
Weerobin says he'll keep looking for the receipts. I made tiny cages this weekend for the Blue Mouse Ears and Country Mouse. You might also want to read my thread in the tree and shrub forum called "Should I be worried"? Some of the posters there had some good vole proofing ideas.

Lady, that was good advice for Gita and so true.

Sorry, Rcn, the photos are in Deep Shade III thread.

I'm wondering if Ruby is still reading. I'd like to hear if the goats have arrived yet.

This past Friday I put down 400 pellets of Ramik in all of my beds. That's right the whole last 4 bags.Today, I completely inspected all of the beds. There is not one pellet to be seen anywhere.

Everything I've read says to switch the products you're using as the critters become "Bait shy". Not mine!!!! Anyway, I'm armed with 4 large jugs of Zinc Phosphide, which the manufacturer swears is not harmful to dogs. I've also read this from several of the university sites. RCN, it's called ZP and I got it online from Cooperseed. The price is more reasonable than the Tomcat product and it's available in larger quantities.

Every source stresses how important it is to reduce the vole population as much as possible in the fall. Apparently, they really attack plants like crazy in the winter when the food supply is more limited.

I'm starting to see a squirrel or two in the garden, so I guess it's time to get out the Snake-a-way again. It lasted almost 3 months through tons of rain. Great call, Hart!!

Stormy, thanks for the info on ZP - checked it out but I think I'm going to pass. The "precautionary statements" on the label makes me a little anxious:

HAZARDS TO HUMANS AND DOMESTIC ANIMALS
CAUTION
Keep away from humans, domestic animals, and pets. May be
fatal or harmful if swallowed or inhaled. Avoid skin contact. Do not
breathe dust. Avoid contamination of feed or foodstuffs. Avoid
contact with acids.

After everything we've been through this year with our pup, I'm not going to take any chances. Plus I don't think anyone (DH included) will ever convince me that it wouldn't "harm" our cat if by chance he happened to gobble up one of these critters who had already ingested any of these rodenticides - just call me paranoid :( I'll stop my whining and just deal with the frustration of losing some of my plants - easier to deal with than the loss of a beloved pet!

For our new thread, here's the link again to palmbob's article about rodenticide toxicity & pets. (He's a vet.)

http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/601/

stormyla- just my opinion of course--but maybe you should tolerate a squirrel or two in case you get a 'friendly' snake to help with the voles. This depends on how far you can go with the term= friendly snake.

Thanks, Critter, that's a good article, but completely in conflict with what I've read at many sites. If I were a pet owner, I'd also heed the precautions. Many of the sites say that secondary poisoning from a pet eating a dead rodent is not a problem with the ZP.
But palmbob is absolutely right. There is no way to insure that your pet won't eat any pellets.

Sally, what do you mean? Do you think I should stop using the snake-a-way? I've never seen a snake here and probably won''t with the snake-a-way. I probably wouldn't freak at a snake being here. I'd just learn to be on the look out to avoid him. But, the snake-a-way is also very effective against the rabbits whose damage is overwhelming. If I allow all 3 types of critters to run amok, then I'd have almost no garden.

With the voles, it's not even an issue of just harming the "Garden". I can't even get foundation shrubs around the house to survive unless I reduce the vole damage. Based upon this summer's experience, I doubt that it's possible to eliminate them altogether. I'd have to stop mulching so they'd have no place to hide, other than the grass. I'm already not planting any types of groundcover for this reason, although I do have 2 spreading junipers which are one of their favorite hiding spots.

RCN, maybe you should not mulch anywhere within 2' of your favorite shrubs and stop planting ground covers near any plant that you can't bear to lose. I've read that it's very important to remove dead leaves from under shrubs and trees in the fall, to limit their hiding there. Keeping the grass cut fairly short and not leaving trimmings in beds or lawns is also supposed to limit their ramblings. Supposedly,they do not like to be out in the open, but I've often seen them running on top of the mulch along the front and back borders of my shrub beds.

well, you are really in a tough situation. I'm just thinking that at some point, allowing snakes around will be more beneficial than using the repellant and keeping everything away. I'm sorry, there's no easy way to know!!!

Stormyla and Sally, the Snake-A-Way will only keep snakes out of a bed or area where you put it, not your entire yard. When I used it to get the snake out of my water garden, he just moved to a flower bed about 20 feet away. When he tried to get the baby birds in a tree in that bed, I scattered it again and I didn't see him again but I'm sure he was still around here somewhere.

It's basically the same stuff that's in the other critter repellents made by the same company. http://www.drtsnatureproducts.com/ I just used the Snake-A-Way to keep the other critters away because I had it on hand.

Well, the voles are still winning!!! Trails and holes in the mulch every where. They have reopened a large hole in the groundhog's den and have dug a tunnel to my new shrub!!!! Both of my new Rhododendrons are dying. Now they are attacking my Daphnes.

I read that every so many years there is an unexplained explosion in their population, usually following a couple of years of mild winters. The article went on to say that the problem is usually self correcting. We'll see!!!

Stormy, I'm still 'fighting' with them here as well! I've been taking advantage of the cooler weather and planting and reworking some areas. Every day I have to walk in a circle around the crowns of each and every new plant to push the soil back down :( They certainly are curious little creatures, they check out every single thing I've planted! Hopefully if I can continue to knock down their tunnels they'll give up and find someplace else to scout out! I did finally pick up some starter grit from the Farmer's Co-op - I'm spreading a ring of it in each planting hole as an experiment. I'm hoping they'll run into it and turn around and travel in the other direction - "We'll see!!!" :)

This is what a 5' tall beautiful orange Deciduous Azalea looks like after those Varmits have feasted on the roots!!!!!

Ugh, that stinks!!! I'd be sooooo ticked.

Geez, that's terrible!! Pesky moles!! You have my deepest sympathy, stormy.

I started reading this thread early on in the summer but lost it. Was just too busy trying to outwit the bunnies, and I lost out on a lot of plants. Looks like I mised some fun on the mankinis and all, but I didn't miss a night of the Olympics. I was planted in front of the tube the whole two weeks. Sad that it is over.... and summer is over...

So, I expect the bunnies will hole up somewhere and come back for spring. Any thing to do in fall to shoo them out? Don't go and tell me not to plant tulips or anything they lik or I'll squirt you with the water hose!! They shouldn't dictate what goes in the garden.

Stormy, just looking around to see if there's anything that might help. Did you know you can set traps for them? Might be something that would be a good add on to the other things you've tried.

http://www.voles.com/How_to_Kill_Voles.htm

More tips on trapping here.
http://elkhorn.unl.edu/epublic/live/g887/build/#tra

My gosh, no wonder they become such a problem. According to the first site, female voles are able to mate when they're 40 days old. Ack. It says here fall is the best time to work on getting rid of them.

We're having our annual mousefest here, when all the darned field mice come into the house looking for a nice, warm spot for winter. I have found bread or peanut butter are the best baits and these mice are geniuses. If I just set a single trap, they eat the food and don't get caught. So I set up a line of four or five traps, preferably with the food end up against a wall, so that they have to walk across them to get to the goodies in the middle.

I have also found the Victor brand traps, just the regular ones and not the ones with the stupid plastic cheese, are the best. You can get packs of four at Walmart for a little over $1.





This message was edited Sep 23, 2008 12:26 AM

Stormy, so sad :( I know how frustrating it can be, we've certainly lost our share of plants here!

Speaking of traps, the Havahart trap Rick had set out in his woodland garden finally caught 'something' last week! Unfortunately it wasn't the skunk the trap was set for but a poor scared cat!!! He was fine when I released him but I felt sick knowing he had spent the night trapped in there :(

Uh, Debbie, how is Rick planning on getting that skunk out of the trap? Or moved to another area without ending up getting skunked? LOL

I don't know about skunks, but we use apple halves to trap groundhogs. Cats are less likely to be attracted by apples and the groundhogs love them.

I'm picturing a long long string on the trap, to pull it waaaay out in the woods and leave it forever.

My dad learned how to make a trap out of a length of pvc pipe... the skunk has no room inside the pipe to lift his tail and doesn't spray... you take skunk, pipe, and all to a faraway location and lift the trap door on the far side of the pipe... then stand clear... very, very clear LOL.

Critter, Now that's inventive thinking!

Hart, thank you for the links, they are very informative. Based on the information given, it looks like there are at least 2 types here. The ZP works differently than the Ramik. I put a very heavy application of the ZP down this past week. There are still lots of the pellets on the ground, so I'm not sure how effective it is.

I may go to HD and buy some traps, but the number needed to make a difference would be pretty unsightly and such a nuisance.. I'd hate to have them all through out the beds now as the Black Walnuts and their leaves are falling. I'm afraid that I'll be tripping the traps with my fingers as I try to pick the nuts and leaves out of the beds. There are so many tunnels. At 3 traps per tunnel, the # of traps would probably be well over 100.

Right now there are 3 hugh trees completely losing their bark as they were so girdled at the base. One of the maples is dying in large sections. It's branches were hanging over my driveway, so I cut as many of them as far from the driveway as possible. Large limbs keep falling out of it.

I did notice signs of erratic or very different behavior left by them since the application of the ZP.

Well something got one of the squirrels, I had to go shovel him up and put him out to the curb before they came to get the garbage this morning.
He was in full rigor didn't look like anything was wrong on his backside but when I flipped him over something got him under his armpit. I just wish whatever it was had carted him off(unless of course he impaled himself on something and crawled his way across my yard????) At any rate, I have 1 less squirrel tearing apart my stuff.

guess you'll never know. Something got startled mid meal? We had two juvenile squirrels blown out of the nest last week. Found them too late to do anything.

Foxnfirefly, You should try the Snake-a-way for the bunnies. It worked like a charm on mine.

Jen, Good riddance!

stormy,

Where did you get the Snake-Away?

We no longer carry it at HD and I could not find it at Lowes either.
There's one place I haven't checked yet--it is "Myer Seed International", a sort of farm supply place (like Southern States) that carries a lot of stuff no longer sold in the Big Box stores.
Will have to stop by there...

I definitely want to use it next year....

Gita

Gita, I got it at HD, bought all they had left. Hart posted a link to a mail order source earlier in this thread or it's predecessor. I should look for it too as I'll need more in the spring. It really lasted a long time, about 2 months even with all of that rain.

stormy,

Thanks! Now--tell me just how you applied it. I presume it is a granular product?
Did you sprinkle it around the perimeter of the bed or around plants?

My beds are edged with landscape ties that are a bit above the level of the soil.
WHERE would you recommend that I sprinkle it? On the bed side--or outside the ties?
How "thick" a band of this? Or does a casual sprinkle work just as well?

I also had them chewing lower leaves off potted patio plants. The poor things! Must be hard to find food....However, would I just sprinkle it on the flooring around the pot, or IN the pot?

Can it be used around tomato plants? I actually did not have any munching around my tomatoes.....they have a 'yuk" smell.....

It would be so much more "liberating" not to have to put up that stupid plastic fencing all over--just to have the rabbits chew "doorways" in them and keep on munching....

Thanks again for your input! Gita

Walmart carries it in their garden department. Keep in mind the same company makes a repellent specifically for other garden critters. I only used the Snake Away because I had that already to get rid of a snake.

You sprinkle it around the plants. You don't need to sprinkle it too thickly. There are directions on the container. I wouldn't use it on anything edible.

Forgive me for sticking my nose in here, but I have battled voles for a number of years. They are worse in spring and fall...and love mulch. Things improved here dramatically when our two kittens (now cats) began to hunt. I couldn't garden without them. No more bunny problems (wonderful to see tulips bloom)...or really anything else...although there are some vet bills on occasion and some clean up.

I also use Shake Away and really like it. Here's where I get it: http://www.critter-repellent.com/ The voles can be so numerous that I rely on both...Shake Away and Cats.

My cats love the garden and are very protective of it. By the way, I tried all kinds of things to get rid of the voles...nothing worked....my local extension office sent me a slip of suggested things (none worked) and at the bottom was a hand written note, "Try getting a cat."

A neighbor told me about Shake Away...it's not cheap, but then neither are the shrubs (what I lost, primarily) they destroy. The cats (and dogs) don't like the Shake Away (for obvious reasons)...oh, and you'll need to reapply it as they, the voles, are wily....they will come back to check to see if the 'predator' is just passing through. It's amazing...you will practically see them moving across the yard (via their holes) to get away....

Good luck...and my sympathies...

gone_gardening-----

You are talking about "Shake Away"......The product most people here are talking about is "Snake Away".....Are they one and the same??????

Gita, I'd like to hear the answer to that too. I don't know if the Snake-a-way has any effect at all on the voles. But it sure does work on the squirrels and bunnies.

Hart, I did try the other critter repellants and they did not work. Of course, they didn't stink like the Snake-a-way. I did use it on my tomatoes, but I used chicken wire cages around them and chicken wire has big enough holes to let voles in. Snake-a-way does not work on the ground hogs. Hart's right, just sprinkle it among the plants.

Gone-gardening, I'd like to rent about 20 cats for 2 months!!!!!

hart---

Would it not be more practical to sprinkle Snake Away around the whole bed rather than sprinkling it around individual plants?????? Less work--for sure---and also using less product. What do you think?

Hart--you may not have defined beds--but i do. Yours are more all over the place with no borders nor edgings around each bed. I do have each bed edged with landscape ties--so I could just sprinkle the stuff all around the perimeter of each bed.....

Anyone have other thoughts on this????

Thanks--I will check Wall Mart.....

Gita

Gita,

I tried that first, but the bunnies and squirrels kept hopping over it.

My beds have trees in them and the squirrels would jump from tree to tree and then down into the bed.

Wiley buggers!!

Gita, that's what I meant - sprinkle around the plants throughout the bed, not just on the perimeter.

Actually, all of my beds are defined beds. Some have edging that's sunk underground, some have stones, some have piers that are about half again bigger than railroad ties.

LOL - I asked him the same thing :) He told me not to worry he caught some years ago at the other house and just threw a blanket over the trap - waited several hours for the skunk to settle down and loaded him in the truck to "relocate". I'm not sure I'm convinced but I do know one thing - he won't be loading the trap into my van!!!

gone_gardening, you're definitely not "sticking your nose in here" :) I think all of us are searching for resolutions to our 'critter woes' and the Shake-Away is an interesting product and 100% organic! You're right it's not cheap, but when you tally up the loss of all the plants we have to toss we'd probably actually SAVE money :)

stormyla, I saw on another thread where you mentioned that some years there is a population explosion of voles/moles - I think this is THE year! We've always had problems but I really think this year is the worst we've ever experienced :( Maybe it's just a coincidence because we have been planting more than usual but I'm getting really frustrated and having a hard time discouraging them. They're moving into areas they've never attacked before and the new plantings, OMG! If this keeps up I'll have to replant everything - when I repeatedly stomp the tunnels around the plant, the soil compacts and the crown of the plant keeps getting higher and higher. Not a good thing with cold weather approaching. I'm having visions of frost heaving all those poor things over the winter :( 20 cats? I'm thinking with the landscape we've got I'd need more like 50!!! My poor little Lucky sure has his work cut out for him with this year's explosion and if I wasn't so darned stubborn he'd have help. I think he'd be pretty upset with me if we added a brother or sister to the 'family' and he was no longer an 'only child' :) He was only slightly disgusted when we brought Phoebe home last fall but I think another cat would definitely be a blow to his ego!

No, I have seen Snake Away at Lowe's....not the same. There are different formulations of Shake Away, depending on what you want to discourage. I use the small rodent one and it really does work. Yes, I had to have something that wouldn't harm my pets....we have been through a chemical poisoning with one of our cats and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. It's one of the reasons I am so careful. We will never know for sure, but it probably occurred when a former neighbor was applying things willy-nilly. It really opened my eyes to thinking about how what we do can have ramifications beyond our own yard. Live and learn.

You know, I remember several years ago vising Longwood Gardens in the fall and seeing a cat or so in each of the different sections. There was a notice or posting asking visitors not to bother the cats as they were working cats.

Well, there are pros and cons to everything, I suppose. However, the Shake Away seems to be a pretty good solution. I think I have seen it at Merrifield Garden Center, now that I think of it...but the container was a different size than you get online. This is a good reminder for me to order some more. I have part of one left, but when I see those holes...I want to treat now and not wait for UPS to deliver!

Oh yes....one other thing...don't laugh...but just on a whim, I took some of my dogs' hair (I have two big dogs) and started stuffing it around my front porch and around a chartreuse mock orange that was being bothered...and it did seem to help! It kinda mats down and doesn't look so attractive, but that didn't bother me (my DH commented on it...once). Now, when I brush them (I get a bag full) or pull it off the bottom of the vacuum cleaner, I drop it behind my azalea bushes and along the porch (small entryway porch). I could be kidding myself, but I do think it helps also. Plus, hey....back to nature and all that....maybe it at least helps the birds!

gone-gardening, Do you know who makes the Shake-away or what the active ingredient is? Thanks

RCN, I agree with you. This year is it!!! Prior to this I only had visible ones in my front shrub beds and under my clump birch. Now they are all over the entire property. I can see the tunnels from the clump birch through the grass to my big flower bed. It is very discouraging.

The other day I saw holes all around the new Montawk Daisies that I just planted. Previously I'd never seen any holes back there. It's dry and windy and not much grows there alongside the road. However the large Maple there is shedding it's bark up to about 5' so far as it has been completely girdled by knawing.

DG need a spell checker!!!

It also seems like they like to dig at any new Heuchera that I plant, but except for the 2 large Brownies that have collapsed, I haven't seen any damage to any of the Heuchera. I'm still not convinced that they haven't collapsed just from needed to be divided. They are blooming profusely and have lots of new small leaves emerging.

Poor Lucky! You'll be having to take him to the pet psychologist. My friend always had to give her cat Valium!!!

gone-gardening, I've heard of people using dog hair before on ground hogs, some even get human hair from beauty salons. I bought some predator urine, but haven't used it.

RCN I used 3 whole sprayer bottles of that mole/vole repellant that you attach to the hose. It didn't do a thing except give my yard a good watering. I had also put down those gummy candy looking worms that are supposed to kill them, but to no effect.

That ZP is certainly causing erratic behavior among them. There are now all different kinds of patterns to the holes and damage. And I'm finding more dead ones than with the Ramik. It's like the ZP makes them frenzied.

Shake Away is made by...Shake Away! I googled it and here is their website: (Google is a wonderful thing...whatever would we do without it...lol)

http://www.shake-away.com/index.html

You can read all about it/them....contents depend on what you're wanting to discourage...

For instance, the one I get is fox/bobcat urine granules....there's a phone number on the link above that you can call with any questions.

Hey, I don't have any affiliation with this company, but I do like the product I've used.

It's cheaper, by the way, on the first link I gave. I googled for Shake Away a few years ago when my neighbor told me (she actually gave me one of her containers...wasn't that nice...and then I replaced it when I ordered some) and the critter repellant site came up.

Good luck!