Shusui talk .... Please help a rookie to understand ....

Pardon the intrusion :-)

I am posting a picture of my 'Big Blue,' and being a novice, I am not sure how to "look" at these guys. He's really only 5-6 inches now, so, I am hoping he will grow into his name.

My quandary is in not fully understanding all the info out there about judgement; ki, GinRin, etc.

While some of it seems out and out clear, when it comes to my shusui? (which I am guessing Big Blue is), what do we look for, specifically, when choosing one in this case.

When I Google Image Search Shusui, koi which do not really resemble Big Blue seem to be more the norm.

My guess is that Big Blue must (sigh) be one of the "undesirables" as he was the last one in a bulk tank. Perhaps, because he is of mixed breeding?

The "season" for buying them is a few weeks past already in this area and pond nurseries are winding down for the season.

He was only $3.99 (3-4 inch) and I know that the breeders / sellers stratify them by "quality," so I am guessing bulk shipments of koi, like that of my pond supplies store are pretty much "lower grade" (not meant to offend any shusui out there, at all!! ..... Really!!!).

I realize that this isn't the sharpest of pictures, but I am hoping y'all can see well enough to point? things out to me.

I guess I am trying to understand what makes the million dollar Shusui ...... and why Big Blue ain't .... He sure seems handsome enough, no?

Thank you kindly for your time.

Hi Willie,

Rich, who seems to be MIA, has more information on the different types of koi. Here is a link to his discussions on shishui. http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/858783/

Carolyn

Thanks Carolyn22

He looks handsome enough to me!!! (But I know nothing about the different varieties, I just like them all). WNY Willie... I grew up and spent the first 30 years of my life in the Buffalo area (childhood in little Alden, NY... early adulthood in downtown Buffalo).

Brenda

Hey Brenda .....

I'll tell BigBlue you were ooogling him. :-) He needs his ego food for the day!

Betcha miss the snows right about now down there, eh? :-)

Hey Willie -

Big Blue doesn't need ego food - he's a handsome guy and his siblings are attractive too!


Carolyn

From that pic of him - I think he is a lovely blue. Wish I had him in my pond!

Crystal

Big Blue is cute, I have a nice girlfriend being held for me at the pond shop right now named "Bluey". I have two favorite colors and blue is one of them and I think a blue fish is a cool idea plus is a restful color. . . (I think I have been watching too much HGTV).
I understand these types of fish can change in their color quite often with seasons and water changes like temperature etc. It will be interesting to watch that in my "Bluey"girl.

Linda

You are right Carolyn22 .... he already has a big head ... Ha .... not really, he is just loving all the attention. Definitely not a skittish fish.

Thanks, CrystalNurse .... maybe I can get a junior out of him/her for ya!! :-)

.... and I am with you MaMaMole ...... cool blues ..... I also like the metallic olive koi for some reason.

and yes, I am hoping that he (or she) does not turn white with age. So far things have been going well (fingers crossed)

I wonder if I should wait until Big Blue is older to really "look" at the markings .....

Take lots of pictures and compare them. I notice that my fish change at this younger age quite rapidly. One of my fish has grown so quickly in three weeks that his/her coloring and markings are moving around a bit. I have to take a second look to recognize this fish.

BTW: I slipped two little butterflies into the pond last night. They were in my quaranteen pond for a while and I put them into the pond late last night around midnight. After I started the process I thought it was a dumb idea doing a fish shift late at night because if they jumped I could lose them . . .
Everything went well. I enjoyed watching them swim around in my lite up pond whilst my existing "herd" ripped apart my aquatic plants at night!!!!

I think my next adoptions are going to be butterflies .... I saw beautiful black ones at The Fish Place, here in WNY. (no endorsement intended ;-) )

I hear, also, that the butterflies tend to be more hardy than the standard?

Dontcha just love when the herd goes a-grazin'?? Glad everyone has made it!

My "blues" are getting prettier or handsome as they get bigger.(8+ inches now) I was not crazy about their coloring when I first got them. They were kind of transparent. The blue is now deepening and one even has orange streaks on his side.

My yellow princess has died. Not sure what was wrong with her , but one day she was full of pep..the next day larthargic and I have not been able to locate her body anywhere. I have moved all the plants, looked in rock caves and all the nooks in crannies. Its very sad... :(

Awe .... Poor Princess :-((

Your Blues do look like a handsome bunch.

Beahive, so sorry about your loss, your other fish are beautiful.

Brenda

I have this female blue that is being held at the pond shop for me (she came in with a small ulcer and they have been treating it for me prior to my purchase - I couldn't bear to go through all the fish trauma I went through last June). My female looks similar to your behive. I have only seen one like this fish and you seem to have a pond of them-how did that happen-are you hogging all the "blue's"? They're gorgeous! What type of fish are your blue ones?

Regarding your yellow fish-anyway she could be hiding and maybe sick? How long have you had it? I hope yellow turns up alright. After my last two went hiding for so long I am extremely hopeful she was just spooked like mine. I'll keep my fingers (and fins) crossed!
Linda

Linda,
I have no idea what my blue fish are called. Like Dr Suess..one fish.. two fish.. red fish.. blue fish , I refer to mine as 4 orange..4 blue..two white..one mixed. I purchased mine in a lot of 15 back in 2006. I have had them since then. They were about 3" back then and have more than doubled in size.
Still no sign of my yellow one. :(

Linda & BeaHive:

If I am not mistaken, our blue koi are a Shusui type of Asagi Koi, perhaps even the Pearle Shusui.

I am not an expert, and am trying to determine which flavor of koi with this thread, as well as what to look for in choosing a "high quality" one.

Love the Dr. Suess version of what type of koi you own. I may have to steal that line if it's okay with you . . .LOL!

Any sign of Yellow fish yet????

OK to use my Dr.Suess naming system. No yellow fish..we have searched everywhere.. I don't think she could hold her breath this long under water!! I am afraid she has gone to that great big blue pond in the sky. :(

Oh dagnabbit!! I was a hoping she was holding her breath.

We've offered some food pellets to the Great Koi Gods in the sky to ensure a safe journey, just in case.

Thanks WNY.. No sign of her this morning. I think she went on her journey . She will enjoy the pellets for sure on the way! She loved to eat!

Asagi is the forerunner to the shusui breed. Shusui have the scales down the back, they should be balanced when looking at them from the top. "Hi" means red (just remember "H" like red "H"ot) and "Ki" means yellow (like a "Kanary" even though that's bad spelling,lol) If they have red sides and/or belly, it also should be balanced left and right. Asagi's are more of a blue net scaled pattern with red front fins.
Bottom line however, unless you plan on being a big time breeder, or growing your fish out to sell to someone else...buy what you like, and what you think is pretty. They become your pets, and eventually you wouldn't part with them no matter what.
Happy Ponding! :)
PS- Some of my favorite koi are the ones I hand picked that never would have passed the perfection chart of a breeder. Their colors are great, no 2 alike.

Thanks! MerryMary. I definitely always buy according to what I find appealing; never was much of one for rules and "this one's better than that one" kind of thing. Just find it interesting what the different opinions are. I was once told that even the grotesque can be sublime. Took me a while to understand what they meant, exactly.

I am hoping Big Blue will turn out with dark blue, rather than light blue or white. However, no matter the outcome, his name shall remain Big Blue. He's is certainly the feistiest and fastest growing of the bunch.

Hey BeaHive .... was passing by The Fish Store and couldn't help myself, but to stop in ....

I saw this charming butterfly version of your Yellow Princess that one could hardly resist.

Leaning toward the name Butters.

She looks like quite the ghost haunting around the bottom of the pond angelically.

WNY..She is very pretty! She deserves a great name. Butters is cute..but how about buttercup? (if you are sure she is a she and not a he) A male named buttercup would be silly! Maybe stick with Butters..could go either way.
Enjoy your new yellow fish... :)

And, to make sure Butters made a comfortable transition to the pond, one of her tank mates came along for the journey.

Haven't come up with a good name for this one yet ..... Very handsome.

Here is the Unnamed one with Butters and Big Blue

Yes, if indeed a she, buttercup would be great!

We like Butters, as, obviously a butterfly koi, but also, a favorite character on South Park (oops! did I dare admit I watch that stuff?!?)

Any suggestions for the Calico? (so far, that is how he is referred to as)

Beautiful new fishies, Willie!!

I do have a couple of suggestions for the multi colored one. He/she seems to have very glittery scales. How about spark or broadway (for the bright lights of broadway) I also noticed the black spot right in the middle of the head. When I was a pet groomer we called it an angel's thumbprint when we saw a cat or dog with a spot like that. So how about angel? Kind of a common name I know, but yours will have a story behind it.

Thanks! bsavage. They are already very entertaining.

Sparkie actually came up as a choice, so now there are two votes for Sparks. Great minds think alike, eh?

Also suggested was Mira .... you know ..... like Mirrah .... Mirror ... for the shiny sparks, but what if the Unnamed one is a guy?

Your calico is a gin rin sanke. A white fish with red and black markings. The sparkly scale pattern instead of normal scales is referred to as gin rin. :)

Your new yellow butterfly is a yamabuki ogon....it means "light without pattern".
Don't know if that will help you decide on a name or not.
:)

Thanks for the ID MerryMary!

I was thinking Yamabuki. I saw on one of the sites above (under Hikarimono) that Yamabuki is what they call the "Modern Yellow Ogon." The tank was just labeled "Ogon Butterflies" along with another variety for "The Unnamed" one we are thinking of calling Sparks.

I know he is some form of GinRin. Sanke?, eh? I would have guessed Showa. I should pay better attention to what is written on the tank glass. But, you know the excitement.

I must say, the very pleasant assistant at The Fish Place (*no plug intended .... it's in Tonawanda, NY) ;-) was not only very pleasant, but very skillful at getting the fish. One scoop, no stress .... VERY appreciated.

Anyone notice the single, metallic scale on Big Blues' back?

This message was edited Aug 5, 2008 10:59 AM

This message was edited Aug 5, 2008 11:16 AM

Happy Birthday yesterday, WNY Willie!

Brenda

Thanks! Brenda.

These DGers are a pretty thoughtful buncha folk, for sure. I forgot I put that info into the profile, and never realized that there is a ticker showing whose b-day that day is.... So, I was really surprised when I got a link in a Dmail to a thread with everyone saying Happy Birthday to me.

Way cool.

Thanks again.

Happy Birthday to anyone I may have missed!
(Trust me, you only want the wishes, not the singing!)

You will also see Orange ogons listed, many times it will say orenge with an "e". You will also see showa's and sanke's often listed as the same thing...although the terms mean different things. They are the same colors, but start with a different colored fish. Showa will have a black body with red and white markings (check the belly) and sanke will start with a white body with black and red markings.... Sometimes gets a little confusing, but the most important thing is that you are buying what you yourself like, regardless of their label.
Some of the fish I am most fond of, are mutts that have beautiful intense colors or really long fins. It wasn't until lately that butterfly fish were even talked about, as only the standard finned koi were permitted as "show" fish. American appeal really provided the avenue for butterfly koi to be much more mainstream.
:)

Thanks for all the info, MerryMary, especially for taking the time to share it!

And also for the H.B.day :-) I prefer they don't sing, too (perfect "relative" pitch, here).

Being a mutt, myself, I prefer the more mongrel type of underdogfish.

Time for an update!

Here is how Big Blue is growing into his/her name!

Here's one for BeaHive. This is how our Yellow Princess, "Butters," is growing, growing, growing.

Sparks