Deep Shade III

OOPS!! very wrong picture!: Here's the Arum

This is an open bloom. There is a ?20 year mature plant in my woods that forms a gorgeous spire of red seeds or berries about 14" tall each year. That is spectacular sight. Unfortunately it is surrounded by a Lot of poison Ivy. EEk!!

Birdie, I have a fair amount of Alum. I like them a lot, particularly how they are so nice and evergreen. They look really neat standing out in the SNOW! Those blasted voles ate many of their berries before the birds could get them.

My fiends in South New Jersey consider them a nuisance as they spread everywhere, but they are very contained here.

Oh I want to know how to get rid of Voles! I had a # of lovely flowering new plants that looked great and then suddenly one day ...Wilted....I looked a down there was a hole, a burrow right up to the entire root (or rather where it was. Ohhhhh, i got so mad!!!!

I have a lot of holes (tunnel entrances) in my garden. I can't tell whether they are from chipmunks (of which I have a lot) or voles. And I don't know how to get rid of them without poison, which I won't use. Off-topic, sorry.

Birdie and Happy, there is no solution for voles. Even copious amounts of poison don't work. They breed every 40 days, and are very smart when they encounter poison. For a small infestation, predatory cats, birds and snakes would be the best teatment along with eliminating deep mulch, groundcovers and debris in the beds.
For a hugh infestation, like mine, the only hope is to try to reduce the population and limit the damage.

Ebay seller Clayton3887 is listing Double Bloodroot at $10. I've gotten 3 from him. They are shipped bare root, as they wouldn't have any leaves this time of year. I've purchased many items from him, he has a nursery in Minnesota and is very professional and gladly answers questions about cultivation. He also is currently listing some Epimediums and woodland plants as well as his normal very young Hosta. If you get outbid on an item, he will often send you a second chance "Buy it now" offer at your bid price. If you want more than 1 of something, just send him a note.

I recently ordered some "Shooting Star". Does anyone grow this? I'm still searching for a shorter variety of non- aggressive Jack in the Pulpit. Any suggestions?

Oh, Forgot, I ordered some white Trout Lilies. Didn't know they came in white.

Does anyone know of any good reliable white Violas or Geraniums? I'm trying to add some more whites and yellows to my deep shade to brighten it. There is partial sun towards the front. It is so dark, the Ligularias didn't bloom again. It's time to move them to some of my part shade areas.

I have a lot of Varigated Soloman's Seal to plant. How aggressive is it? Will it establish well in dry shade? Thanks all.

LOL, I'm still here!!! I've just been busy and haven't had much opportunity to check in but I'm back :) I think it's a busy time of year for everyone and I'm sure we'll see more activity over the winter months. I'm with you stormy, I love the color of Georgia Peach. That reminds me I've got to check and see how ours is doing in the new Heuchera Bed! I took some pictures of that area over the weekend but got so disgusted with the weeds that I didn't bother to look at the individual plants :(

Happy, I think stormy's quickly becoming the expert vole eradicator but neither she nor I have had success in getting rid of them completely. Neither of us have been successful in getting rid of them completely in our gardens and it's so frustrating :(

stormy, how dare you post such a deal and not give us a link! LOL It's been years since I've looked around ebay and after a half hour of searching this morning I gave up! I'd love to know more about that Ebay seller especially if he's got Epimediums :) So many questions, let me see if I can help.

Dutchman's Breeches - we have a few growing here and there in the gardens but they're so tiny I can't even remember where! On one of our trips to Michigan we collected the seeds and just spread them - easy :)

Tiarella 'Crow Feather' - have never grown this one but I think most of the Tiarellas seem to do this. They grow vigorously in the pots and should "look better as they grow". Pink Skyrocket did the same thing for us but straightened out once planted.

Shooting Star - such a pretty plant :) They usually bloom April-May in the gardens but unfortunately don't last that long. They're fairly slow growers but once they get established form a nice clump. The grow in dry shade here and definitely wouldn't like an area that's too wet.

Lots of Arisaemas to choose from! http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/adv_search.php?searcher%5Bcommon%5D=&searcher%5Bfamily%5D=&searcher%5Bgenus%5D=arisaema&searcher%5Bspecies%5D=&searcher%5Bcultivar%5D=&searcher%5Bhybridizer%5D=&searcher%5Bgrex%5D=&search_prefs%5Bblank_cultivar%5D=&search_prefs%5Bsort_by%5D=rating&images_prefs=both&Search=Search
I started an article last winter about all the wonderful choices but still haven't had time to finish it - I'll hopefully finish it over the winter. A. sikokianum has always been my favorite and probably always will be - such a beautiful plant :) http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=5416827 A. ringens is not short but a stunning plant with large glossy leaves. I always describe the flower as sinister or evil looking - maybe because it's the one whose flower looks most like a cobra's head! LOL http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/560/ Some of the first photos in PF are not A. ringens :( A. kiushianum is a cute little plant but really needs to be planted on top of a wall or raised area to enable you to see the flowers which bloom under the foliage http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/131811/ Same thing with A. urashima http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/64435/ Both of these have unique 'whips' which are fun to watch as they tend to follow the sun throughout the day. From The Genus Arisaema http://davesgarden.com/products/gbw/c/1874/ "bear a sigmoid spadix appendage ending in a flagellate thread that is usually quite long." This is a great book with tons of information and will provide plenty of information for your search. We have a half a dozen or so planted in the gardens and we're hoping to add more in the future. The most important thing to remember is that most of these exotic species don't like wet soils! Unlike the native Jack in the Pulpits these species will quickly rot if planted in soil that stays too wet.

Regarding Violas - I know some people love them but I've avoided planting them anymore because they're too aggressive here and reseed everywhere! My very favorite white Geranium is Geranium x cantabrigiense 'Biokovo' http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/38287/ A vigorous spreader but a nice compact habit and pretty glossy foliage. The area where ours is planted is getting too much shade now but I'm getting ready to transplant some of it in a sunnier border soon.

Whew! Last one - Variegated Solomon's Seal. A terrific plant - takes a little time to get established but once it does it's off and running! We have some planted below our deck where it hardly gets any sun or water! Looks great in early spring but suffers from the lack of water by mid summer :( They do wonderful in dry shade, but under the deck they don't even benefit from the occasional rainfall. However the next spring they always spring back to life!

I came over to this thread to post this picture but I got a little carried away trying to catch up! I posted a picture of this plant, Pollia japonica, above in August when it was flowering http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=5416827 and wanted to show you the black seeds that form in the fall - I love this plant!

Wow how nice. It blossoms in August??? I will have to look that one up. Thanks rcn!!! Nice photos. Those kinda look like my asiatic day lilies. Which I am not to thrilled about. Ronna

rcn, which one is the purple one in the picture? Very pretty! Love the last one, too, so unusual.

Oops forgot to come back and answer your question! The purple one in the first picture is the "Shooting Star" stormyla was asking about. Dodecatheon http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/79554/ I think we also have the white growing in the gardens but I forget. If I don't capture a picture while they're blooming, they bloom for such a short time I can't remember where they are!

Rcn, That purple Shooting Star is beautiful. I am actually interested in the white. They remind me of cyclamen, which I have in pink, but should look for some in white too.

Thanks for the Jack in the pulpit suggestions. I like the ringens and sikokianum. Nothing that I've read suggests that they will become invasive as is said of many of the domestic varieties. They are both real beauties.

The Geranium Biokova seems to be a good choice. What I've read suggests that it does better in partial shade, so I could use some in those areas. I've recently ordered a geranium with chocolate colored foliage. That will be my first hardy geranium. Now, I'm going to add the Biokova, they should compliment each other. The chocolate one has lavender flowers.

That Pollia Japonoca is beautiful and would be good for one of my areas, but I've read that it's stoloniferous. Where I want to use it meets up with neighboring properties. Does it spread very much in your garden? I have this same concern about the V. Soloman's Seal. Does anyone know how much it spreads? There are no barriers here between properties.

Sorry about no Ebay link. I'm technologically challenged and always fail trying to make links. I checked just now and he is not listing Bloodroot today. Sometimes he will sell off EbAy via email. so I'll write to him. He is only listing 2 Epimediums today.

Last month I planted some beautiful varigated Kalimeris. Now they have lost their varigation. Does anyone know if it will return?

I have some beautiful Siberian Iris growing in deep shade. I'd like to add more, also in my part shade areas. Does anyone know of a source that sells them reasonably priced?

Thanks for the link, rcn, I thought maybe the shooting star looked like it's name! lol, lovely!

stormy, no invasive tendencies whatsoever with these Arisaema, which probably explains why they're so expensive! The sikokianum is painfully slow in producing offsets but when they do they basically stay attached to the 'mother' bulb until you decide to dig them up, remove the small bulblets and plant them where you want them. The ringens on the other hand readily produces offsets but they're so small they can take years before they will produce 'blooms'. One of the ringens we have planted in the gardens now has about a dozen or so stalks after 5 years and is a very showy clump when in bloom. This picture was taken 3 years ago - two years after planting! One of the traits I particularly like with this Arisaema is the glossy foliage :)

Kind of blurry, but this gives you a close up of the 'cobra head' I was talking about.

Curious, which "chocolate" Geranium did you order? We've had several in the gardens, some do well, others not so good. I really like 'Espresso' but it's never grown to be the beautiful clump I've seen pictured. The one thing I do love with 'Espresso' however is the foliage turns to the most spectacular red when the temperatures dip in the fall! I just planted another one and giving it a try with a little more sun, so we shall see! I'm trying to find this new one 'Cheryl's Shadow' to add to the gardens http://www.planthaven.com/geracher.html Looks intriguing with the compact habit and would be perfect in the rock border we have along the driveway.

Pollia japonica - YES, definitely spreads! However it's taken about 5 years to get to the point where we could make divisions. It's in an area where it's always been neglected but since Rick has been planting in this area over the summer, it may be very happy with the amended soil and spread rapidly!

The V. Solomon's Seal will spread, but will probably take 3-5 years before you have a good stand of it. However, that's based on my experience with our miserable red clay soil. If you're lucky enough to have good soil you may find yours will grow faster. This is probably one of the nicest plantings I've ever seen of it. I have no idea how mature this clump is - taken at AHS River Farm in Alexandria several years ago.

"Technologically challenged" LOL It's easy, just copy the link (Ctrl C) and paste it here (Ctrl V). I always preview before sending however just to make sure the link posts properly :)

I've never had much luck with the variegated Kalimeris, in fact last year I finally gave up and yanked it! The variegation was always stunning in the spring but by mid summer it was just another "green thing" in the garden with no outstanding characteristics.

Siberian Iris - The only SI I have growing in the gardens is one I brought with me from Maine. It never had a "name" however the story that came with the plant sold me! Apparently it was from a division made from a plant growing in the gardens of the mother of Ken Druse. Since his books were my inspiration for shady gardens when I first started gardening with perennials I HAD to have this Iris! Have you visited the Iris Forum and asked for sources? http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/f/iris/all/ If you look at the sticky at the top of the forum, Terry has given this link for PlantScout sources:
http://davesgarden.com/products/ps/search.php?search_text=%20Iris%20&submit=Search
I noticed that Edelweiss Perennials is listed there. I have no idea if they sell Siberian Iris but having recently received an order from them, I can vouch for their terrific plants! Which reminds me, I need to add my rating - I received some real beauties - outstanding plants, reasonably priced and great service :) http://www.edelweissperennials.com/

What a beautiful stand of Variegated Solomon's Seal! We have the plain green ones that grow wild here, and most of them don't stand straight up like those. Maybe they all hold each other up, since there are so many?

I have no idea how close they planted these but they certainly are the most beautiful stand I've ever seen! We've had some colonize in an area where they were basically tossed out once along the edge of the field. They seem to stand up straight like this, but I think the weeds and grass help support them! LOL One of these days I'm going to dig some up and transplant them into the gardens. We have it planted in different areas throughout the gardens but I have yet to create a stand as beautiful as this!

I have a nice stand and they certainly stand straight up, but they aren't as closely packed as these -- but from the photo, these appear to be in the sun, whereas mine are in the shade. I love mine.

RCN, Thanks so much for all of the great info.

Yes, the chocolate Geranium is "espresso". I also saw a beautiful varigated Geranium on Heronswood's site called "Margaret Wilson". It was marked for full shade.

RCN, Have you seen that silver leafed Arisaema Taiwanese "silver Heron", also from Heronswood's site? It looks very striking.

You're right, those Kalimeris should be tossed and maybe replaced with the Arisaema, just, sigh, not the same price differential!

Presently, I'm waiting for an order from Edelweiss perennials, but I don't remember what it is. Oh, the joys of menopause, can't remember anything, as in how to post a link, which I've learned about 20 times, and thank you.

The Siberian Iris that I have growing in full shade and blooming beautifully is "Butter and Sugar", which was the first yellow Siberian. It did take 2 years before it started blooming.

Some other beautiful plants for shade on the Heronswood site are, Actaea "Doll's Eyes", Cardamine Trifolia, Plumbago "My Love" and Thalictrum Omeiense.

Maybe I shouldn't worry about my neighbors when planting the Soloman's Seal. They never cut or pull or spray their weeds. They delight in growing Garlic Mustard!!!!

ROFL, hey, garlic mustard does great in shade!

It surely does KY!!! I forgot, the violas that I planted are a newer variety from Terra Nova. They are called "Heartthrob". The green leaves have purple centers.

Another new shade plant for me is a silver leafed Hearty Begonia called "Mystic Mist". This is my first Hearty Begonia.

Wanted to post photos, but they both got pretty damaged in shipping and aren't much to look at.

I goofed!! The Hardy Begonia is called "Metallic Mist". Boy, do I wish DG had a spell checker!!!

stormy, I haven't tried 'Margaret Wilson' but it DOES look stunning! I haven't had much luck with the green/white variegated Geranium I've had in the gardens for years. Since MW is a G. phaeum hybrid it might be more vigorous than the variegated G. maculatum I've had trouble with. A. 'Silver Heron', let's just say the verdict is still out on this one - purchased 2 years ago, received a pea-sized bulb and I'm still waiting to see the foliage that's supposed to be so "striking" :(

Anxious to hear what you got from Edelweiss! I've been on a quest for two years to find this Alstroemeria http://www.edelweissperennials.com/largeview.asp?id=16 and finally found it at Edelweiss and for $6.00, compared to Plant Delights at $16.00!!! One thing led to another and before I knew it I had a $100+ order placed with them :) Didn't tell Rick I had placed the order, wanted to surprise him with a few treats for his new woodland garden :) When the box arrived, he just groaned and said what the heck? I quickly told him it was a surprise from Phoebe (our pup) LOL When I started unpacking it, he said "There better not be any Hostas in there!" Fortunately he was pleased with my selections and the new goodies for his garden, and no, there weren't any Hostas :)

We've got a huge collection of Begonias but alas none of them hardy :( I am so envious you've got 'Metallic Mist' - it's been on my wish list even if we would have to overwinter it inside! I'll be curious to see how your Ceratostigma 'My Love' does. I planted it in the gardens in several locations this summer. It's supposedly only hardy to Zone 7 but I'm "testing" it here because I love the gold foliage!

Has anyone had luck with Loropetalum in deep shade?

I've tried it but it didn't do very well. I believe that the red kind does better in shade.

Rcn, that is such a lovely garden!! I have a nice big 'blank' spot that I want to plant, where I cleared out a stand of japanese honeysuckle, but there are so many roots and rocks there. Did your DH encounter that problem?

RCN, I've decided against the "My Love" because it suckers. The spot where I wanted to use it requires something contained.

I wasn't planning on bringing Begonia Metallic Mist inside. The info on the plant said it was cold hardy to zone 6.

That Geranium, Cheryl's Shadow is lovely, so is the Alstromeria.

In your photo, what are the tall cylindral conifers?

Happy, the one and only Loropetalum we have is not growing in "deep shade" but only gets a few hours of sun in the morning, if that! Everything I've read indicates sun or "medium shade" and it's also reported that it does not perform well in extremely dry soil. I'm not sure what we're doing right, but considering the darned thing isn't even supposed to be hardy here, NEVER gets watered and is still alive after 5 years (last two years of which have been severe drought) you might just have a chance!

Stormy, I'm not sure that 'My Love' will sucker? C. plumbaginoides definitely suckers but 'My Love' is a hybrid of C. willmottianum and this one is usually more shrub like, albeit more of a groundcover shrub, if that makes any sense! LOL

I know what the tag might say for 'Metallic Mist' but I wouldn't trust it :( Heck, even Terra Nova's site (Dan Heims bred this beauty) only lists it as hardy to Zone 7!

Now you're really testing my 'menopausal memory'! Actually had to check my records and I'm pretty sure the conifer in the picture is Thuja occidentalis 'Smaragd' http://www.soonerplantfarm.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=plants.plantDetail&plant_id=417. If I had had 'Degroot's Spire' at the time I would have planted that one because I like its almost twisted habit much better and it won't grow as tall. http://www.richsfoxwillowpines.com/Web%20Albums/Foxwillow%20Pines%20Photos%20T/slides/Thuja%20occidentalis%20Degroots%20Spire.html I'm hoping these will eventually grow together and form a 'wall' along this path as a back drop for the roses planted on the other side. This is what it looked like two years ago (fall of '06) before I started planting everything else. I love being able to look back and see how much everything has grown :)

And this is what the other side looks like now....

KYWoods, OMG, you wouldn't believe what Rick encountered in developing his woodland garden! This is one area unfortunately I didn't take any "before" pictures of but it took him two summers basically to get it ready :( First year was removing shrubs and pruning (lifting) existing trees. Second year, yanked out the bamboo like grass which had practically taken over the area. I can't remember the name of it right now but it's one of those that the roots can actually slice through your hand when trying to pull it out :( Fortunately when he finally got it cleared the soil wasn't actually that bad although he did have to add some in spots around the rocks, etc. Even though I don't have any "before" pictures I did take a lot of pictures of his progress this summer http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/888066/. It's just amazing what he's done with this area :) Patience is the key, as well as determination, but if you've already removed the Japanese Honeysuckle you're halfway there!

Beautiful photos RCN. You are doing your personal best to beautify the world!!!! Which Euphorbia is that in front of that beautiful tree?

KY, I'm so happy to hear that you got that done. What a job!!

I spent a lot of time this weekend digging out Alianthus and pruning Pyrecantha and yukky Rose of Sharon and dead Forsythia (killed by my neighbor who for once decided to spray undiluted round up on his weeds, when I complained about them.) and lot's of Choke Cherry.. My back and hands are a mess!!! I dug out one wild grape vine whose roots were more than 8' long and all of this was in the shade bed!!!!

RCN: That Loropetalum is lovely. Do you happen to know what cultivar it is?

And what shrubs are you growing on either side?

This message was edited Oct 5, 2008 7:50 PM

Thanks Stormy, you know it seems like the first few years I was here (moved to VA in Sept. '99) all we planted were trees! Sure, a few perennials here and there, but basically all we were trying to do was create shade and it worked :) It was never "fun" to work in the gardens because it was too blasted hot and we didn't have enough shade for all the plants we love! Now we've got both, shade and sunny areas and even in the middle of summer we can find a spot in the shade where it's almost pleasant to work in the gardens :) There are three Euphorbias planted at the base of the Deodar Cedar - Blue Lagoon to the back, x martinii directly in front of, and 'Orange Grove' further down. Just below the 'Orange Grove' is a small shrub I'm thrilled with - Hypericum 'Blue Velvet'. When I first planted a couple of them here Rick turned his nose up at my choice! LOL After two years he's changed his mind and wants me to plant more in other areas of the gardens :) It was slow at first but now the two have formed a nice rounded mound with almost blue foliage and the 'fuzzy' yellow flowers are so bright and cheery in June :)

Happy, I'm not sure but I think it's Loropetalum chinense var. rubrum http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/54320/. This poor shrub has gone through He** and back! A friend gave it to Rick about 10 years ago and I lost the tag :( It sat in the corner of the greenhouse for about 3 years - suffered from being forgotten about and rarely watered! Then when we finally brought it up to the house to plant, we dug the hole but never planted it! It sat in its original pot, in the hole, for two years!! Needless to say it looked dreadful for the first couple of years after actually planting it IN the ground but it finally started to take off last year and this year it's gorgeous! Ya think it's forgiven us? LOL

Fothergilla 'Mt. Airy' is planted on the left with Weeping Buddleia (not really a Buddleia at all - Rostrinucula dependens http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/86141/) just peeking out to the right with another Hypericum http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/76629/ behind that. Unfortunately this Hypericum doesn't do as well as the one pictured above - flowering is sparse because it's in too much shade :(

Thanks, RCN, I thought that was Martini. The Hypericum Blue Velvet is great! Of course, I haven't yet met a Hypericum that I don't like. Is that a low grower? Will have to add that one to my list!!