It is very fond of Veronicastrum like with many other types of Bumble bees, hoverflies and butterflies. I've never seen one like this before; the white collar and rear end is really white not yellowish and the black a really deep black. Size is about 2 cm so rather large.. I only saw one but it's possible I missed another as it was so busy around this plant.
Didn't manage to find its ID.
other pic..
it's head;
perhaps this pic. is better of the head..
and a last..
Mystery is solved. I got it's ID from a local nature forum. It is a cuckoo bumble bee; Bombus bohemicus.
I missed this first time, I have something similar, wish it was easier to ID these!
There is also B. vestalis which can be very similar with minor differences, males and females of the two can look alike. With worn specimens it makes it all the harder to see detail, the collar band can fade from yellow to nearly white, and at some angles it looks all white. The tails are supposed to be an indication but with hair loss and fading that too is difficult.
http://www.nhm.ac.uk/research-curation/projects/bombus/_key_colour_british/ck_wtails_1.html
You can do a search by colour band using this key,
http://www.nhm.ac.uk/research-curation/projects/bombus/key_british_colour_info.html
Only B. bohemicus is described on the Scottish recording site,
http://www.brisc.org.uk/bbck.php
On BWARS they mention a slight difference in the females (queens as the don't need worker females!) of B. bohemicus and B. vestalis, being the yellow patches at the sides of the white tail section being lessintense yellow and smaller! Hmm, worn specimens need microscopic ID.
http://www.bwars.com/bombus_bohemicus.htm
http://www.bwars.com/Bombus_vestalis.htm
Then going to the NHM it states B, bohemicus is seen earlier in spring, I have got a pic of a female flying off on 21st April, it was huge and has a very dark golden band so is most likely B. vestalis.
http://www.bwars.com/Bombus_vestalis.htm
Reading the description on the NHM site, B. vestalis has short even hair, and golden yellow bands. B. bohemicus has long hair, and lemon yellow bands.
http://www.nhm.ac.uk/research-curation/projects/bombus/_key_colour_british/ck_cuckoos.html#bohemicus
Those I have had more recently are another matter, lol, I can just see faded yellow at the top edges of the white tail. They are also very faded, with some looking nearly white on the band, otheres a little more dirty brown looking.
This is what I think is B. vestalis, the on taken on 21st April.
Then I have these which I took yesterday, although I have seen some in between and got a couple of pics.
This one I can see has the short yellow bands at the top of the tail, well faded. It also looks to have a few straggly faded coloured hairs at the top of the abdomen, as well as at the bottom of the thorax, which means it could be a male of either species!
Perhaps the clue is in the face, this one looks very short.
Your B.vestalis of the 21 rst of April looks bald on the first section of its abdomen or would it have lost its hairs, which is rather strange as it probably just emerged and should be young. The hairs do look shorter than from B.bohemicus.
are the second and last pict from the same bee? This one really has longer hairs on its collar and abdomen, so could very well be B.bohemicus.
The second does look like mine, except the faded brownish hairs at the top of the abdomen and the bottom of the thorax. When I look closer at mine there is also a faint suggestion of some brown hairs at the joint of the abdomen and thorax but not as clear as in yours.
The face of mine also looks quite short
I'm also confused with mine having no yellow hairs at all, not the collar (although in some pics it has a very faint bronish hue) nor has it yellow patches at the sides of the white tail section.. Even if the yellow had faded one would still expect a very faint yellow..
But here is one that looks the same without yellow;
http://popgen.unimaas.nl/~jlindsey/commanster/Insects/Bees/SuBees/Bombus.bohemicus.html
I think mine could be a male B.bohemicus as I discovered some black hairs at the tail end.
From the Scottish site: "Males are difficult. They are like the female but the white or yellowy tail ends with some black hairs."
Not very sharp but the black hairs are noticeable
I spent last night taking moth pics and trying to ID some! I see the Forum is now the Insect & Spider ID forum.
I looked at the pic you gave on the unimass link, there is some pale yellow just visible on the right side above the white tail and at the top of the abdomen.
Regarding the black hairs on the tail tip, the BRISC site doesn't address B. vestalis, so it can't be discounted on that basis.
On the NHM site, which being what it is should be reliable, (Natural History Museum), they only shown a male form of B. bohemicus with yellow bands at top of abdomen as well as bottom of the thorax. The female has a white tail tip.
http://www.nhm.ac.uk/research-curation/projects/bombus/_key_colour_british/ck_cuckoos.html#bohemicus
Now look at B. vestalis, there is a male form with only yellow banding at the top of the thorax, with none on the abdomen. It also shows a black tail tip, and as they don't usually have a bald tip then the hairs should be black also.
My last pics were only taken a couple of days ago, but as I think the queen in April is B. vestalis then it's a good bet they are also B. vestalis. That doesn't mean I don't have others though! I have some very confusing ones!
I find the description of the yellow bands differences confusing, looking at both on BWARS the top bands both look very dark. I find the same in other bumblebees too, some B. lucorum have very dark top yellow bands.
This is another on 30th June, not as big as the queen but still quite large. I also think this is B. vestalis.
This message was edited Aug 1, 2008 2:34 PM
This message was edited Aug 1, 2008 2:41 PM
This taken on 27th July, I'm struggling to see any yellow on it.
I find it so difficult to take moth pictures when it's dark, it is so impractical to use a tripod photographing insects, but its getting better now that I figured out an option in my camera to diminish the strength of the flash, it also helps if I use the help of the extra light of a torch..
I also noticed this faint suggestion of yellowish hairs in the unimmas picture but thought it could be the effect of the yellow of the flower shining through the few hairs..
The male forms of B.vestalis are confusing!! But then mine could be a male B.vestalis (if the yellow collar had faded to white) like the one on the right you describe. But there is still the distinguishing factor of the long hairs versus the short hairs..
I see it's all very confusing, lol! According to the reliable NHM site mine would be a female after all.
Your last picture (27 July) really look like mine! Perhaps that one is B.bohemicus? Its hairs look to be longer.
But I also think that from the hairs of your two last pictures in your previous post. They do look longer to me than the hairs on your 21rst April picture, less neatly combed too.(more bohemien style, lol)
The long shaggy hairs almost had me fooled too, the 2nd to last one on the back of the dahlia has very strong colouring so must be a new specimen. It has no other yellow stripes (other than the short ones) though as the male B. bohemicus has, and the female doesn't have the short strips above the white tail so that sort of rules it out.
There is a male B. vestalis like the one on the dahlia though, also a queen but this was a little smaller than the queen/female in the April pic, but could be either. The queen has a white tail tip i nB. vestalis, it does look to have that in other pics I got but the tail tip can't be seen well.
Another of the bee on the dahlia, it flew to a clematis, in fact it didn't stay still at all! One thing I have noticed with the cuckoo bees now is they stay for a long time on the same flower, they seem to be very slow. When I see a larger one of the same type they move more quickly, so maybe the queens need to be fast moving to survive and reproduce.
The yellow above the white can be seen more clearly.
There is one point which leads me to think yours is probably B. bohemicus, and that is the few white hairs which can be seen at the bottom of the thorax, as well as the top of the abdomen. In your pic here,
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=5323656
you can also see a little colour in the collar. The form of a male B. vestalis as on the left on the NHM site does have that also, but the tail tip is white! That brings us back to the male B. bohemicus, a very faded one at that, lol. If it was anyting else I (think!!) where the white hairs are should be black instead.
One more point picked up, the queen of B' vestalis doesn't have yellow on the shoulders, where all other similar forms do! Mine on the clematis doesn't look to have yellow on the shoulders, so I think that is a queen B. vestalis.
Well, I think I won't give any gender at all to my B.bohemicus ! It's too confusing. perhaps it's a hermaphrodite, lol!
Quote; "One thing I have noticed with the cuckoo bees now is they stay for a long time on the same flower, they seem to be very slow. When I see a larger one of the same type they move more quickly, so maybe the queens need to be fast moving to survive and reproduce."
Do you mean with 'a larger one of the same type' another specie of the real Bumble bees? Because I thought that there were no queens (nor workers) among the cuckoo bees?
quote from the garden Safari Site; "Cuckoo bumblebees do not know workers or queens, just females"
http://www.gardensafari.net/english/picpages/bombus_vestalis.htm
The one I took the pics of was moving in such a speed I had a hell of time to take pics of her(him), took at least a hundred from which only a few were reasonable enough to keep. Can you imagine trying to follow her with a tripod! lol.
'a larger one of the same type' .. I meant the same species or similar species, a cuckoo bumblebee. There is only females and males, but the females are in a way queens as female workers are not needed, and as the females will be the ones which reproduce they are really queens. They have no need for workers as they take over other bumblebees nests, I wonder if there will be any left before long as there seems to be an increase in cuckoos!
It seems the males are the slow ones, lol, they creep around the flower slowly and will crawl to another flower if they can.
I think I had a new B. bohemicus today, it has lemon yellow bands and did look different in shape to the others. Look at the short yellow bands on the abdomen, very lemon yellow! This one looks more like a normal bumblebee in shape.
This message was edited Aug 1, 2008 11:32 PM
But then.. lol, I can't see any black on the tail tip and it would have to be a male with the colouring. The hair does look quite long though!
Edited to say I think it has to be B. vestalis, looking at the BWARS site the colour of the small stripes on B. bohemicus is duller as well as being smaller. So much for the lemon yellow!
This message was edited Aug 2, 2008 12:22 AM
Well, that's even more confusing now! Its hairs really do look much longer than your 21rst April one, also the shape which looks more round and full. It looks a very fresh one too having all its hairs and colours intact.
