See my new fish and some golden oldies that were hidden!

BeeHive:

It looks like you have Lesser Celendine (or Pilewort, Fig Buttercup)

Ranunculus ficaria
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/1961/

growing there .... is it as horribly invasive there as it is here??

I can't seem to get rid of it.

WNYwillieB. My plant is actually Ranunculus flammula. It is growing well in its first season by my pond, but I would not consider it invasive. Glad you brought this plant to my attention as I learned on this web sight that it is poisonus. Must keep any straglers out of the pond. Do not want the fish to eat it! It is very pretty and adds much need color to the ponds edge.
http://www.pfaf.org/database/plants.php?Ranunculus+flammula

Whew! I have been horribly cursed by R. ficaria and its invasion. :-(

I must add : your school is as wonderful as it is colorful.

Thanks. The link for your Ranunculus ficaria is very interesting. You can make topical ointments for hemaroids from this stuff. Perhaps you could start a new business!! Sorry, I know how much trouble invasive plants can be...
http://www.pfaf.org/database/plants.php?Ranunculus+ficaria

Tipped over a water lily this afternoon while in the pond trimming plants. I had just gotten the water clarity nice and now it is a mess again! darn..it is always something!

Haven't had a good laugh like that over a tragedy in a long time!! Thanks!

That is an interesting link / site.

At least the cloudies in the water will settle. Let it not cast ripples upon your serenity!

:-)

This is an interesting photo and totally unexpected when I downloaded it I was giving my Koi some grapefruit to try this morning. They didn't like it, but this picture is really cool! An air bubble from the koi reflected his/her head twice. You may need to enlarge to get full effects.

I can't see the image Beahive, but I'm interested!

I gave my koi grapefruit yesterday and they couldn't have cared less! I wonder what the deal is? I read in that article that they were supposed to flip for it?

the photo posting on the forums are messed up. Dave knows, they were having server problems today.

snapple you sure do have some fat fish......LOL

I too am waiting to see the picture....

Janet

There seems to be a problem with posting pictures today. I will
try again now. Hope it comes thru this time. :)

My fish swimming under a water lily.

blue fish

Oh that's so cool! It's like a double magnifying glass. So interesting, always in our little ponds. Your water is so crystal clear!! Methinks you have a good system going there. Cute fish, too. Wonder what the deal is with grapefruit and our fish?

Snapple, your fish are so pretty and look super happy in their home. I love the black and white doitsu!

MM I like your new school. I do love those crisp colors. Looks like she has nice fin formation, in addition to good coloring. Though I have no specialized eye either!

That's an amazing blue koi! The water clarity I'm seeing here for everybody is worth of the efforts of the best pond professionals in the business. The pro's got nothing on this bunch posting here do they? Y'all seem to know your way around the filter.

Seeing your Big Blue inspired me to try my first koi, BeeHive. I went ahead and got (3) 3" and (3) 3-4" bigger babies.

Now, to ruin that crystal waters track record that snapple noted: Though my pond is new and now going through "its cycle" and the water isn't clear, here is a shot of 'Big Blue' and one of his smaller sisters a lighter gold one next to him, in the midst of the feeder golds.

Also have one that looks almost black. Such a rookie, I don't even know what kind.

That might be a third gold koi in the upper left, but not sure, as it's not too focused. Sorry.

Here is a shot of 'Big Blue's' other 2 bigger mates: The "black" one and the one that is mostly white.

Again, hopefully soon the waters will be clear again, allowing for better shots!

WNY - "Ponds In Training" don't count! ;>) Nice koi.

Whew! :-)

WNY..your fish are very pretty. You have a nice array of colors now.
How large is your new pond?. Have you added any plants yet? They help a lot with the clarity and give the fish a place to hide from predators.

The pond is roughly 10? (or 8-ish in the narrows?) by about almost 20 or so.

Deepest is about knee high, probably for the most part an average depth of about 2 foot deep, with the "cove" area up front under 1 foot deep. I've included a photo.

My rough calculations are about 3000-3600 galls and about 200-240 sq. ft. of surface area (erring on the big side). Probably closer to 5000 once the creek part is added.

I just added (3) TINY plants (more expensive than my annuals, for sure!). 1-red water lily ; 1-rush corkscrew 'afro' ; 1-parrot feather ..... and like I said, MOST MINUTE. I am looking for info on how to properly pot them on already. I really was only going in there to buy 1 tiny koi, and left spending $100 ... eeeeek! :-) I have some Japanese Iris that I think can live in the water .... looking into that. I know there are some out there that are great water cleaner-uppers.

Here is a long shot of the pond. Where it ends in the background will eventually be a creek along the left side of the "pines on the rocks" that will feed it and hide the source, extending the length to more like 30 foot or so. The "rock garden" is the busted up remnants of my friend's back porch and steps, planted up with the pines which were sticks I got for free from the National Arbor Day Foundation 20 years ago.

I should dare admit that I have no filter on it, as yet, just a pump to keep the water sort of circulating. I am hoping to be able to get a good filter for it by next month. Business has been good (knock on wood). So far everyone seems happy, and not struggling along for air .... probably should test the N level, but the fish don't seem bothered in the least, at the moment, that is.

I want to buy lots more already!!! But, know I have more than enough to keep the water challenged for the moment.

Just for kicks!! Here is my "Before and After" Forum posting:
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=5251754

Looks good!

You have made a beautiful pond. The parrots feather & the cork screw rush do not need to be potted. The parrot feather can be tucked at the waters surface between rocks and the rush can go on the edge in an 1' or 2 of water. Just bury the root ball under some
bottom rocks if you have them. Water lily needs a heavy clay soil and a good layer of small rocks or gravel on the surface , all around the pot. As I experienced, they tip over if you do not have enough weight in the pot...
I gave my fish some peas today. They were not a big hit like the cherrios. They were eaten but it took a while for them to take to them. The peas I bought (frozen) were a little large so being the good mother I cut them in quarters to prevent choaking!!

After the peas I tried watermelon again. One fish took a bite and that was it. One tried to wear the wedge like a hat...

This message was edited Jul 17, 2008 8:53 PM

some koi cleaning up some pea bits that sank to the bottom of the pond.

I call this picture.." both start with the letter "w". Very artsy! LOL

WNY Willie: Are you adding good bacteria to the pond? I am also new to ponding this year and found that you can never add too much good bacteria to the pond for water clarity. I have tried a few brands and have found that Micro-lift works very well. Also, do you know to change 30% or so of the water out every 7-10 days to add more oxygen to the water and to help with water clarity? I learned the hard way and 11 of my fish died because the water wasn't very clear although all my levels were good during testing. Especially watch the water clarity during the hot weather.

BTW: Love your new pond. If I wasn't such a newbie with smallish plants also, I would send you some plants in the mail. A lot of Davesgarden people did that for me to help me get started and it really helped a lot! Watercress that can be bought at Whole Foods or any other grocery store can easily be added to your pond and grows quickly. I have mine in my river and it's all over the place and looks great. Also, hostas from your garden grow in the pond nicely as well.

I have never done a 30% water change. With the proper filtration, and the water circulating well & plants the oxygen levels are fine.
If you use a municipal water source, you must be careful with the chlorine & other chemicals the cities use for purification. They can be deadly to fish. I have an auto fill on my pond which replenishes water little by little as the water evaporates. The Koi can handle the small amounts of chlorine in my city water this way.

Linda glad to hear your watercress is still doing well. Mine bit the dust a long time ago. Suppose I should pick up another bunch when I am at the market.

My new little frog friend contemplating her day.

Thank you, all .... for your kind comments on my work in progress .... I am almost FINALLY going to have that running water in the stream sound!! woohoo. I believe I started this project around 1988. A pine tree here, ditch lily there, solomon's seal there, etc. Now everyone is grown in and there's no water to be found.

Won't get into the economical stress of living in mismanaged WNY, as I am sure there are stories everywhere, but, the small business is starting to take off! I think I am one of the few people who are actually not affected by all this recession stuff. Well, within reason, that is. Basically, when you have nothing, and go to something, even the tiniest something, that is a vast improvement!! Plus, now I don't have to DRIVE to work!! Tons of monies saved there!!

oooo Didn't dawn on me to get watercress at the grocer. Nice tip!

BeaHive: What an awesome shot of the frog at home. Here in WNY, the soil is mostly solid clay .... do I have to go out and buy the "special" clay soil from garden centers, or can I use my wealth of the stuff?

I have heard that the lily roots are VERY fragile and extra care should be exercised when handling.

I think mothermole was taking into account the fact that I have no filtration or plants, just circulation. The only way to remove waste toxics in this case is ......

Mothermole: I have not added any Mirco-Lift or anything to the pond, as yet.

I have been taking buckets out to water the different gardens, and probably add about 1/2 inch or more in depth of fresh water just about everyday. I know from my childhood aquariums that "fresh water" fish means just that: FRESH water. Fish grow faster when the water is (properly) constantly refreshed. 30% would be a bit steep of a chore for 3000 gallons, but that just might be how much gets changed over the course of a week, maybe more, actually. 1/3 tank changes are certainly ok, but I wouldn't go much past that.

AND, Watch out for those hoses!!! MANY can add 100-1000 times the acceptable level of LEAD. I only buy hose rated for Human Use. Those for campers / RVs, etc.

I am probably going BACK to the pond store (might leave the money home and just take enough for what I want ..... nah!) this afternoon or tomorrow. I will try your Micro-lift .... sounds like a good thing, for sure.

Here is a shot of the (3) larger Koi and a feeder gold coming together. They are just about 4" at this point. Just babies.

Y'all are SOOOOO kind to take out precious time to offer advice and warnings!! I appreciate every consonant and vowel!! Thank you, again.

The soil from your garden should be fine. That's what I used for mine. Plenty of yucky clay here also. After the lily is planted and rocks placed in pot, soak the whole thing in a bucket or container of water for several hours to overnight to let the air bubbles and any loose dirt settle. Then place very slowly into the pond.
Good luck!

Again!! Awesome suggestions!!

I also read that when transplanting it is the perfect time to add some plant food.

Thank you, Thank You!!

Bea: The water change is more necessary on the new ponds that haven't "matured" in their filtration. It took my pond about 2-3 months to "mature". Also, Willie doesn't have a filter on his pond and I worry that he might have a fish disaster like I did and I don't want anyone one to go through that. The water change will be helpful for his fish until he starts filtering. Also, I learned from people that raise koi champs that the more water changes the better for the fish's coloring and their growth. I'm the newbie though and there is a lot of mis-information out there. Am I wrong in believeing this???

BTW: What is the proper Japanese name for your beautiful blue koi? It is amazing and I want to tell my pond guy to hold one for me if and when he gets one into stock. I love, love, love your fish!!!!

Uh, I've always understood that frequent water changes hinder a new pond in maturing. Oxygenation can be sufficient just from proper areation of the water as it comes over a waterfall if the water moves briskly, is bounced over rocks or hits the pond surface enough to froth. If that doesn't happen then another means should be supplied ( underwater areator), but not water changes. I only do two water changes a year - spring and fall cleanup. I top off whenever necesssary. This week it will be quite a bit as it's a little windy, low humidity, no rain and I have a fair amount of splash from the waterfall. I am a stickler for agressive well maintained filtration and forceful aeration via the waterfall.

But then, what do I really know. I sure as heck have never raised a champion koi. I just have 11 fat 6 & 7yr old backyard pond koi that aren't going anywhere - ever!

I do get the pro's magazine "KOIUSA". I learn a lot from that. It's alll about filtration, filtration, filtration according to them. Some of the filtration systems I've seen in that magazine are the most complicated feats of engineering imaginable. Way over my head, wallet and what I want from the experience of backyard ponding.

http://www.koiusa.com/

I was thinking more about the 30% water change. I would think that by changing 1/3 of the water, the change in water temp of the water would be dangerous. It is not good to have a sudden change of water temp. My pond (3200 gal) is around 80 deg. By adding cold hose water I would imagine the temps would be drastically lower after the fill up. Any ideas about that?

Since childhood, I have had many, many, many aquariums, many, many different sizes, but this is my first pond.

While water changes, I am sure, has to have some adverse effect on the beneficial bacteria population (esp on new and just starting to establish ponds), I would think you would want low poisons in the water over possibly lowering the beneficial bacteria.

For now, this is all just a sort of "low emergency" care for a pond with no filter (at the moment) but with fair water circulation and oxygenation.

With my aquariums, I was under the impression that partial fresh water changes regularly are a good thing. Esp. to stimulate growth of the fish. If a complete breakdown was required, I believe they suggested keeping some of the original water to jump start the colonies.

This is what I found on FishDoc.net: (just thought I would share this)

Question:
I've been doing about a 25% water change monthly in my pond. Is this too much? Would it be better to do smaller changes weekly? I'd appreciate any advice out there. Thanks
Answer:
That's a good regimen, but it's really dependent on feeding rates and the accumulation of organics. Best regimen IMHO: 25% every two weeks if you feed a lot or you have a large collection.

Anytime the water starts to develop a haze or a cloudy appearance it's
usually a sign of "high organics" and this is a good reason to step up your amount or interval on the water changes. Sometimes, if you're curious about the condition of the water, here's a crude test you can do: Fill a plastic bag with your pond water. Let it sit at room temperature for 36-48 hours with no fish in the sealed bag. Open the bag and take a whiff. If it's fetid smelling, you have problems and a major water change is in order, right away.

Here's an ideal set of regimens:

Change ten percent of the ponds' water per week OR
Change 20% every two weeks OR
Change fifty percent every 6 weeks but no matter what you're doing, you should do a MAJOR 75-80% water change at least twice per year.
People focus on the major water tests we can run and they forget about depletion of trace elements in the water, the removal of excess nitrogen, and the accumulation of phosphates which are a good indicator of overall pond health and background pollution.

I found all that here:
http://www.fishdoc.net/faq/faq_details.php?faqId=67

Still searching for more info, though .... I never believe just one source, even if it does match my experiences.

I have to disagree. I have an Amazon biotope planted tank with Co2 ( tetras) that I've had for about 5 years. I rarely lose a fish. Water changes on that tank depend on the success of the plants. If the plants are doing well and the filter is maintained ( Fluval 405) the plants take up most of the fish waste and fewer changes are necessary. I test weekly and monitor the pH daily. I keep the pH at 6.5. Currently water changes are 30% monthly. This is a 75 gal tank with a big-big fish load. If it wasn't planted so heavily it would most definitely require a weekly water change.

Ponds, although dependant on the same nitrification cycle (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) are a little different animal in regions where there is rainfall and especially if there are plants in the pond. Minerals in the water vary greatly from region to region and from water treatment plant to water treatment plant. Even more variables are introduced if well water is the source. So I would be concerned about a statement about replenishing minerals via the tap.
Unless you are using reverse osmosis water and then adding back the minerals for perfect concentrations you really don't know if you have an ideal mineral content to begin with. Phosphates are the WORST thing you want to be unknowingly replenishing.

When I changed my coldwater tank to a planted tropical tank 5 years ago I got a complete water analysis from the local municipal treatment plant. They were really nice to work with! This particular municipality softens the water supply and adds a buffer to keep the pH at 7.8. It also carries a short term buffer that keeps the pH at an unbelievable 9 in the pipes to reduce corrosion. The result? This is tricky. The Kh is 2 - 3. Very soft. The water when it first comes out of the tap is pH 9 - high. This short term buffer "flashes off" in about 24 hours and the pH settles and stays stable at pH 7.8 Now there is a real challenge to an aquarium keeper! If you lower the Ph you can wind up with 0 hardness! So how do I get the tank stable at pH 6.5 with Kh 5? Well the temptation is to use RO water. But that's a real pain in the neck for even just 75 gallons. I have a plastic 30 barrel mounted on a rolling dolly. I fill it with tap water, drop in a heater, add 1- 1/2 tsp acid buffer, 1 tsp baking soda ( along with salt, dechlorinator and blackwater extract) and let the whole thing stew for 24 hours. Then I have perfect water for the tank at the perfect temp. Roll the barrel up to the tank and after the required gravel cleaning and water removal simply use a fountain pump to pump in the water from the barrel into the tank.

But back to my original point about water changes and ponds. Rainfall, topping off, filtering capacity, plants and the basic composition of the source water all play a roll in the necessity of water changes. Two a year for me. That's it.

Here is the biggest problem with frequent water changes in ponds. Some tap source water has phospahtes. Every time you add water or change water you might be really aggravating your algae problem. http://www.aquariumpros.com/articles/phosphates.shtml

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This message was edited Jul 19, 2008 4:59 PM

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Aw, I'm so glad you still ahve some of your fish! They all look wonderful.

This is what makes ponding so "crazy" to me. Everyone has different advice (even the so-called experts) and it's hard for us newer people to make heads or tales out of it until we figure out what our individual ponds need. I change my water by about 10%-30% every 10-20 days and no the temperature doesn't noticably change but I have a 5000 gallon pond. I only do it when I think there might be a lot of "gunk" on the bottom from plants, fish and overhead trees. I am not stuck on a particular schedule or regime or exact amounts or time inbetween-I just follow my gut!

I think in a lot of stuff that's really what it comes down to, following your gut and common sense for your situation.

Common sense does seem to tell me : filtration, filtration, filtration (and maybe a bit of circulation, too) ..... which I am seeing is one thing everyone agrees on.

I agree, all the advice can be confusing and have learned a lot by trial and error. I was doing weekly water changes on my new pond, usually 10-20%, sometimes smaller bi-weekly. I think it was causing more problems then anything and had a lot to do with my green water problem. When I slowed down on the water changes the water cleared up and allowed the pond to cycle.

I've never had any water quality issues though, my water always tests fine, a little high on the ph but that's it. Adding a second filter also helped with the clean up of the green, probably because it removes more fish poo so I agree adding more filtration would probably help.

Yup, I agree. For every pond, regardless of size - Numero uno is filtration. Second is aeration. After that each pond is an ecosystem unto its own with its own balance. The challenge for the pond owner is to learn where that balance is. Just as MM said - she knows when her pond might be getting gunky. Gunk you don't want. Apparently the regimen I have going now with Microbelift Pl and String Algae Buster and AquaClear Extreme Dry keep the sludge suspended and it gets filtered out. Cause I sure have a ton of sludge in the filter but little or no accumulation on the pond bottom. But it took me a long time to get this regimen figured out and working. Also the UV's. Would not want to be without the UV's. A lot of ponders don't like UV's because they are expensive and they kill bacteria indiscriminately ( both the good and the bad) along with killing algae. But they don't kill the bacteria on pond surfaces or the bacteria established in the filter. Therefore they do way, way more good than any harm. http://www.aquasuperstore.com/detail.aspx?id=5720&zmam=19561300&zmas=1&zmac=2&zmap=29298