Need help choosing a new tree and source?

I have had a Shumard Oak in trouble for about a year now. After many attempts to help it, I had people from the County Extension office out today and it is officially beyond hope (in case you can't tell it is the tree on the right). They were very nice and said I could keep trying but that it was better to go ahead and replace it. We are looking to replace it with another Oak, possibly a Bur Oak or a Chinkapin oak. I am looking for some advice on a good, moderate growing tree that will have a long life and eventually be a shade tree. The problems with the existing oak are due to chlorosis and it being in a lower area of the yard.

Also, I am about a hour north of Austin and would like to know of a tree nursery somewhere between the Waco and Austin areas. I am looking for a good quality, taller tree and not a little sapling. We want the maximum effect we can afford.

FYI - I am taking this opportunity to redo the beds around my trees in the backyard, making them larger. I underestimated (as you can see in the photo) how much room the trunk would need when we built our house 7 years ago. Gardening is very much a learning process!

I'd appreciate any help. Thanks.

The Bur Oak grows in a wider range of soils. You may want to test the soil pH before deciding which one to go with. These links may help you decide.

http://www.wihort.uwex.edu/landscape/Chinkapin.pdf
http://www.na.fs.fed.us/pubs/silvics_manual/Volume_2/quercus/muehlenbergii.htm
http://gardening.yardener.com/BurOak.html
http://www.na.fs.fed.us/pubs/silvics_manual/Volume_2/quercus/macrocarpa.htm

Thanks bettydee. I appreciate the links and do plan on testing the soil in that area of the yard.

I am wondering if anyone else has a preference of these two trees or suggestions of other possible trees?

Howard Garrett's Trees of Texas book speaks very highly of the Bur Oak saying its probably the easiest to grow, drought tolerant and tolerates different soil types. It's susceptible to very few diseases, is the fastest-growing and longest living of all the oaks of Texas. The Chinkapin is said to not stand wet feet or poor drainage.

E-mail Skip Richter, (one of the all time Texas greats) a contributing editor of Texas Gardener who writes frequently of tree, A-Z. He's also currently serves as the Travis County Extension Horticulturist. He'll likely be a good resource for nurseries in your area.

I planted a Bur Oak 3 years ago and it is doing great. The only drawback is that mine is in a dry part of the yard and drops it's leaves each summer when we don't get rain. Right now it's about 7 ft. tall and has 3 leaves holding on. As soon as we get into a wet period it will leaf out again. I like the Bur Oak and intend to plant another in an area that gets more water.

this is off topic (like that's ever really stopped me--lol) but doodle that landscape project has really filled out spectacularly in the short time since your original design posts about the project!

sorry about the shummard--I have 2 and they are great trees for me down here--but it looks like everything else has been outstandingly successful

Debbie
=)

Thanks for the help everyone. I will consider all of these suggestions. I am also now considering the Monterey (Mexican) Oak too.

Debbie - Thanks for the compliments on the landscape. It is coming along...but not as fast as I would like. :-)

Here is a photo of the Bur Oak I had planted in 2002 (if memory serves, the truck diameter was 2-3" when first planted). It has performed tremendously for me, no matter what I do to it or around it. I chose this tree primarily because of what Howard Garrett had to say about it in his Texas Natives book, and it has exceeded my expectations.

(Please don't pay attention to the area around it, as I was readying the area to plug St Augustine plugs at the time!!)

Carla

Smockette will know...she works for TreeSearch.

"eyes"

Bur Oaks are wonderful trees----but they get huge and have a very dense canopy. It 's difficult to grow much under a bur oak when it gets really mature.

Would you consider a Bigtooth Maple? I love mine! It was propagated from Hill Country trees so it does very well here.

I am open to all suggestions. I will need to see if that Maple is on the list of the best trees for my area, as given by the local extension agent's office. I don't know much about the Maples so I will do a little research. I just want to find a really good long lived tree that will do well in that area of my yard, which apparently has very poor soil.

Right now I am still researching but am leaning towards the Chinkapin or Monterey Oaks as the Bur Oak has such huges leaves and I have heard they can be a nuisance. Has that been a problem for anyone?

My Bur Oak is never a nuisance -- it is always quiet and polite and never interrupts when I'm talking to it. :-)

I know that eventually it will get big and put out a great deal of shade, but that's what I'm hoping for. My living room gets direct western sun, so I'm waiting for it to grow a bit more and throw shade onto the house. It will give good shade to about half of my yard when all is said and done, but that won't be for another 15-20 years. Not to mention that it's acorns are enormous, therefore easier to find and pick up.

Carla

The Monterey Oak is a good choice, too. I have several young ones that are growing well enough and they are not tended to. With a little TLC, they 'd grow faster. It's fun planning for a tree, isn't it? Kinda like bringing a pet home.

I had a tree planted about 10 years ago, and it is a Red Oak it was about 4-5 feet tall, it is now about 30 feet tall and is providing a lot of shade.. I think it is a splendid tree, and I hope it will be here, long after I die...

I have a Bur Oak for about 13 years. Every second year we have a banner acorn crop. I have had it trimmed 2 times so I get dappled shade. What about the Gingko? It is a beauty, although a slow starter for the first few years. You will always remember that you planted it the year of the Olympics.

Thanks for the info everyone. For those that have the Bur Oaks, I asked about the leaves but wonder about the acorns. Are they as big as some say (golf ball size)? Are they a nuisance or not?

antiquerose - I am interested in the Monterey Oak. Any problems you have had with yours?

bananna18 - Hadn't considered a Gingko...any known pests or problems with it?

Not that I know of except that it grows slowly at first. If you get one, the male tree is recommended because the female has quite the smelly fruit for about a week.One of Garrets recommendations, but check for your area.

This 3 or so y/o M Oak is scruffy but I expect will grow out of that. The yellow you see is new growth. The only care it gets is mulch 2X a year. No watering. This oak has been problem free.

you might put Lacebark Elm (Chinese Elm) on your list.

I love mine so far.


Carl

Another great tree that seems to be very underutilized is the Texas Ash. A gorgeous tree and native to Texas. From what I have read, it has no diseases and is not prone to any bug problems. I purchased three for my front and back yards about three years ago and they are doing splendidly.

I would recommend a Green Ash. I planted one about 5 years ago and it has increased in size beautifully. It has large nice shaped leaves and the leaves have a nice show of fall color. It was recommed to me by a tree farm. This is a picture of when I first planted it. It is now about 5 times that size. The Arizona Ash should be avoided as it grows great for awhile then is prone to disease.

Bonnie

I will take a picture tomorrow and show you what it looks like

Here is a picture with some fall color.

Doesnt look so big in this photo but I promise it has grown!

Lace Bark Elm, trimmed. In ground from 5 gallon pot 3 yrs ago. Totally problem free. Love it, love it.

Lace Bark Elm, untrimmed. Planted as above

Green Ash, planted 6 yrs ago from 5 gal pot. Gets very stressed in hot, dry weather.

This message was edited Jul 14, 2008 10:10 AM

Everyone, thanks for attaching pictures to go with suggestions. Decisions, decisions, decisions. How will I ever decide by fall?

Are you sure it's a Shumard Red Oak and not a Southern Red Oak? Shumard's don't usually get chlorosis but Southerns would on your alkaline soil.
Also I planted two Burr Oaks last year and I have been surpised at how fast they have been growing.

When I was researching the replacement tree that eventually became our Chinese Lacebark, the other 2 trees that made the 'final cut' were Shumard oak and this;

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/84924/

but no one in my area had one.


If you have a difficult area, Crepe Myrtles can be trained into 'tree form' and some get fairly tall I think. Very adaptable to poor conditions.

just an idea

Carl

Here's my crepe tree

Tx doodlebug, I can't comment on your concerns. But DID have to say I appreciate the work ya'll did in laying those stones. We have similiar ones in the front. And I just had DH reshape them and level them. The thing is they still aren't level as I'd like. HOW did you do yours? Did you have a hard time leveling that type of block? Was it professionally done? Did you glue the top layer????

Really nice to see a job well done!

Siggy - We have determined that it is probably not a true Shumard oak but probably a Shumard Oak crossed with a Pin Oak, which does get iron chlorosis. :-(


Tir_Na_Nog -Your question regarding the leveling...well I used a level. Since our yard is on a slope, I started with the highest point and dug under ground level about 2-3 inches. I then put in a little sand, put in the stone and got out the level. I checked the level side to side, front to back and diagonal across the stone. What ever was too high, got tapped down by a rubber mallet. Then I put the next one in and the level went across both stones, comparing the height and front to back levelness (if that is such a word) across the stones. And proceeded with the next one. I think you get the picture. It took a little longer but was definitely worth it. The first layer of stones is the most important. If you can just get that one right then the rest are easy because you just set them on top of the existing ones. And I did not use any glue what so ever.

I did all the rock work myself with the exception of the wall in the back. I designed the wall and dug about 45 feet of the 60 foot trench (in the summer time) and decided I would hirer someone to actually dig the rest of the trench and haul in the stones. I was the overseer of that project and made them use a level. They had no idea how hands on I was until I started coming out asking them to re-do sections of the bottom layer again, because it wasn't quite right. Once the first layer or so was done, then they just kept piling on the stone. Thanks for the compliments. I am glad you liked it.

The picture is an old one of me working on the tree border out front.

antiquedrose - Thanks but we already have one crepe myrtle tree growing the back yard. Pictured is the crepe myrtle in 2003. I think we are looking for something that will get much bigger than the crepe myrtles.

I really like these stones, especially for slopes. I think they make such a statement. This picture is the tree out front with the original border I did. I HATED it!

Here it is after I re-did it. Much better!

Doodlebug, you said you were open to all suggestions... I hope this one? 21 years ago in November, I planted a Texas red oak. It was a housewarming gift from my parents. 3 months later, we had one of the hardest winters known to hit this area (1988), which was then followed by another hard winter. Those two successive winters bumped us into a whole new zone. A lot of people even lost their grass.

My little red oak suffered too. I forget what it's called when they get freeze damage that kills the bark, but that's what happened to mine. The damage was almost the circumference of the tree. Like you, we called the extension office, and they sent someone out. The word was that, since the bark damage encircled more than 50% of the trunk circumference, the tree was a goner. It didn't have enough bark left to send sap up the rest of the tree.

They weren't wrong--that's almost always true. In our case, it turned out not to be. The tree recovered, and today it's both the prettiest and the largest in my whole neighborhood. And still growing. Boy, are we glad we hadn't gotten around to digging it up.

Since they are natives, they sometimes recover from things they shouldn't. I guess what I'm saying is, maybe you could try to save it? Even if you have a cross that suffers chlorosis, there are things you can do to help it along until it's established. (Add Texas greensand, for example.) They are definitely worth saving. I have other native trees. I have 2 large Texas ash trees, which are very pretty and I really like them. But they are way inferior to the red oak, for lots of reasons. I also have a sweetgum, which suffers from cholorosis, which I cure by adding Texas greensand. And then I have a huge Bradford pear which I can't wait until it dies (any year now). They were all planted in the same few years. The red oak is head and shoulders (literally!) above the others.

TX_doodlebug,

LOVE IT. REALLY appreciate your intense effort in leveling those blocks. Now I can pass onto DH how it should have been done. :) Ours look better than before but I knew they weren't as good as could be. And many folks no matter what type of stone edging they use do NOT put forth the effort for long-term beauty that you did. I wish I was your neighbor!

Tir_Na_Nog - :-) I did tell you one false thing. I told you I started with the highest elevation but that was not true. I started with the LOWEST elevation and started the row of stones there. Sorry for the mistake. Must be all the benadryl I am taking for allergies right now.

pbtxlady - Thanks for the advice. I don't want to cut this tree down...really. I am very heartbroken over it. However, from all the research I have done, and all of the gardeners I have spoken with over this past year, this is going to be a long term problem with this tree in this particular area of our yard. We have three red oaks. All were bought at the same time and this is the one with the problems. I am treating the other red oak in the back yard for chlorosis and it is responding. The one in the front has no problems at all. I have two dwarf burford hollies in the back that also get treatment for chlorosis each year. This tree, however, is not responding and gets worse and worse. The thought is that the tree is crossed with another that is not really conducive to growing in this area. We just don't know. However, as the roots grow deeper it is suspected the problem will only get worse. With all that being said, I haven't given up all hope and am keeping an open mind. That is the whole reason the tree is still standing, with its pitiful little crumpled up leaves. We are not planning to actually do anything with the tree until this fall or over the winter. By the way, how big is your Texas Red Oak now, after 21 years of growing?