Hi all! We got a Bower incubator at an auction last month. It is an old metal round one. We fired it up and set our eggs. The temp has stayed very consistent, but I have been fighting this whole time with trying to get the RH up. The highest I got it to was 50% and pretty much thought any chicks would be lost. One started a pip last night and this morning nothing more, so I picked up the egg and listened. I could hear movement and then cheep, cheep, cheep. I 'flaked' away some of the shell and pulled back some of the white membrane, about a quarter size hole. (this is a standard size Leghorn egg) It was VERY dry in there and the little chick kept cheeping at me. I took a little spoon and put a little warm water on the inside of the shell and put it back in the incubator.
I have the styrofoam incubator firing up now, where I know I can control the RH and want to try to save the rest, if it is not too late. I was thinking that if there is any chance for the rest, I should get the RH higher than normal for hatching because they are already too dry.
Has anyone had this happen? Is it too late? What can I do?
Thanks for any help,
Christy
HELP! RH been too low in incubator, chick trying to hatch...
did you get my damil? how is it going?
i hope the little guy makes it. hang in there. i won't be around again today ;-(
tf
I've seen as low as 50 RH recommended for the incubation---it may depend on the porosity of the eggs. I find that putting a very clean (new) very damp sponge in is the best way to raise the RH quickly--use warm water and ring it out just enough to keep it from dripping. As they start to hatch the RH goes up due to the moisture in the hatching eggs. I've had the RH go up to 85 everytime a chick hatches--and I think that is what happens in nature.
I am assuming tf gave you the instructions on helping with a hatch. I've had great luck with it, although you may help with a chick that shouldn't have hatched. But I think if you know the hatching conditions have not been optimal it is worth doing.
Good luck! They frequently take longer than you expect after the first pip--make sure the temp stays up:0).
When we have had eggs that looked like they were getting dry I would hold them in a bowl of warm water not letting the hole they had get into the water but enough warm water around it to cause a bit of a sweat in the egg for them. It worked.
How are the eggs/chicks doing?
no, i ddint' give the assist info catscan, can you? i gotta run...
Great idea with the sponge catscan.
Thanks, smedgekles--I learned it at DGs of course!
Ladybugs, Here is the site for assisting a hatch--it also has great information on other problems and hatching in general: http://www.silkiechickens.com/helping_chicks_hatch.htm
Thanks for the info. I don't have any sponges.....last night I grabbed a couple of paper towels, wet them and put the crumpled ball in. It didn't seem to make any difference in the RH. Not even 1%. I just checked on the chick, still in the shell. It is still alive, but all the water I put in the shell seems to have vaporized.....the RH is 53% now. Should I try holding the egg in a bowl of warm water, making sure that no water gets in the hole? The chick is still very dry in there, the membrane is stuck to it.
Christy
Thanks Catscan.....going now.
I just read about how to help the chick out of the shell. I didn't know any of that before, so I'm glad you gave the link Catscan. I'm not sure if I should help this chick right now though, because I think the shell/membrane might be stuck to the chick. I think I'll try the warm water in a bowl thing first to loosen the shell.
Christy
Christy,
Hope all goes well for that little chicky. Are all the rest of them due to hatch also. Here is wishing you happy hatching. Good Luck
Thanks L2G. I just got done holding the egg in warm water. The little chick is breathing really hard. I don't know if it is struggling or not. It kind of looked like it, but its body movement might be part of trying to get out of the egg. While I was holding it in water, the shell kind of cracked on both sides of the hole. I held it in water and loosened the membrane as much as I dared to, then put it back in the incubator. I'm worried that with the RH being too low in though, that all the moisture I put in the egg is going to be vaporized back out, keeping the chick to dry.
Tf said that I don't want to suddenly jump the moisture up. That kind of flucuation will kill them, drown them, or leave them crippled.
That makes sense, sudden shocks or changes can't be good for them. I'm just worried that if this one is having so much trouble and is so dry it can't get unstuck from the shell and membrane, then what are the others doing?
As far as this hatching and the hatching day.......my DH once again leaped and then looked and has had the whole thing bungled up. He warmed up the incubator, one that was used and we had not used yet and put the eggs in when the temp got steady. The RH was not right, but he figured it would catch up. I was gone when he did all this. The RH did not get right and I have been fighting to raise it with not much luck. I got it from the 35% in wanted to stay on, to 50% and there it stayed. DH's attitude has been "It'll be alright"......despite the fact of ALL the information we have learned (I have learned and told him) from books, websites, and of course all of you here at DG.
He didn't write down the date he set them, so then it became a bit of a guessing game and me searching back through a dmail where I had written what day he did all this.......then I had a date. Or so I thought. DS informed me that the eggs DH took to set in the incubator, he took from a broody hen who had been sitting on them for 3 days. grrrrrr! That said, today would be day #20 that they have been incubated and the little struggling chick is the 1st to pip. No other pips on the others yet.
Sorry, I'm venting because I am so upset right now at my DH's method of leaping 1st, with no thought of doing it right and of having things go right because of doing it right to start with that I could just scream. (good thing he is not here right now to deal with the mess he has created.) I know I can't possibly be the only one to think that if you do it right to start with, you probably won't be sitting here like I am worried to pieces that all is lost. BAAAHHHHHGGGGG!!
Christy
Oh I feel for you, am here to hold a hand if ya need. And yes do it right the first time it wont be as much trouble. I just can see almost anything struggling for life unless it is a wasp after me or a snake. most anything else I will try to help. Vent away. Maybe a humidifier, I am totally guessing here. I would be screaming also.
Thank's L2G, that is very sweet. I jumped over to the Humor & Jokes forum for a minute....nothing like a pick me up like a good joke.
I just checked the little chick, it's still alive in the shell, not looking too dry. I always want to jump in and help too, when I see something having a hard time, but with seeing so many cows giving birth and having to jump in and help when it is REALLY needed, I have learned that by helping when it is not really needed, or helping too soon, you can do more harm than good sometimes. The trick is 'knowing' when to help and when to let nature take it's course. I learned the difference with cows over time, I figure I will too with hatching chicks. I think it's just such a shame because this could have been prevented and wasn't. I just hope that the chick and any others to come will be ok.
Christy
hey, still here.... remember that in trying ot help this first chick, you are affecting all the others. the bastor needs to stay closed to keep their temp and humidity steady, which is crucial during pip and hatching, did i say CRUCIAL>?
so, make a small homemade hatcher where you can help and baby this and any others struglling, and leave that old brower alone so the strong CAN survive... maybe that new styrofoam one would work, does it have galss in the top you can pop out?
tf
Thoroughly soak a paper towel and wrap the egg in it (not covering the pip). That should help. Can you put more water in? A humidifier in the room is a good idea. Try to get sponges, but I would say to actually have them dripping wet--you need water. Also, try closing the vents a bit more to hold in the humidity.
How is the temperature? Slight chnages in it will affect the humidity.
Here is another, slightly different set of instructions for Helping Chicks Hatch: http://browneggblueegg.com/Article/HelpingChicksHatch.html I have been successful using this method. Alan also has a couple of articles on incubation.
As for figuring out the development stage of the eggs, candle them.
Suze
The chick is out! The chick is out!! I just went in to check and the chick was sitting on top of eggs, wet, and cheeping his head off! I put the lid back on and ran and got the camera. Good thing I went back to take a pic, I had forgotten about the water bowl I had put in a while back to raise the RH and he took a tumble into it as I was standing there. I took the water bowl out. The styrofoam incubator is to the right temp and RH, so I think I will move the little chick to there for drying, so I can put the water bowl back in for the other eggs.
Thanks for the info Suze. I went to that site and read it. I also went to check the vents. DH must have uncovered ALL of the vent holes before he left for work this morning, so I got them covered.
Do you all think the remaining chicks will be ok with a gradual rise in RH?
Christy
AWWWWWWWWWWWW wonderful, awaiting pics. I can see you running around looking for the camera. BEEN there DONE that. Not with chicks tho YET. Get ready!!!!!! I will give ya'll a break over the weekend I wont be home or around a TV let alone a computer.
might be a while on pics. It's a 35mm camera and I have no idea when I'll be getting to town, but I will get them on here one day. You'll be taking pic's of chicks soon enough, I am sure. You going camping?
Christy
Yea, the hard way about it tho. We are going to a friends lake house. There will be about 15 of us going. NO kids. If my sister in law was going I would take one of my grandsons, but she is not so he is not going. Fishing, drinking and camp fires. How is LiL dude doing?
That sure sounds like fun! Grown up time! Hope you have a great time!!
Lil chick is still doing fine.......peeping his little head off. I know he's not cold, so maybe he's just lonely. He looks like he or she of course is a Brown Leghorn/PBR cross. The wet feathers look dark gray, but the fluffed up dry ones are a silvery gray. Pretty. A second one started pipping, and I left it alone. I have been slowing raising the RH.
Hats off to my DH. When he got home and I told him about all this and that I didn't know how we are supposed to know what is going on in any of them or which eggs even had chicks........he finally got to work on a candler. In 5 minutes he made an AWESOME candler. He took the light fixture parts out of a smaller heat lamp bowl, put a halogen bulb in a bigger heat lamp fixture and put the two together.......bowl parts facing each other, smaller one fitting inside the bigger one. Then the light shot through the the hole of the smaller heat lamp where the light fixture and wire had been removed. We could see everything perfectly. Wow, I am so impressed with this! There were 5 bad eggs in the incubator so we tossed them out. No getting it wrong this time!
This has already been a long day. We have had a turkey hen who set her nest up across the road and pops up every other day for food and water. The dogs for the most part have left her alone. Today, one of them barked at her until she got off the nest and the chased her into some very tall grass in the pasture. We couldn't find her, but found a bunch of feathers and assumed the worst. We got the eggs and candled them. All good with nice big air sacks. A couple of them are even wiggling a bit. Oh my gosh, they are going to hatch at any time now. We got the chick moved into it's own cage and put the turkey eggs in the incubator. I'm so glad I got it up and running this morning so it was all ready to go. Then guess what? The mama turkey popped back up and finally made her way over to wear her eggs are and is laying there. I think we are going to get her set up in a big cage with her eggs so she will be safe. I just know she will have much better luck with them than we will. We incubated eggs from the beginning one time, with not very good results. They seem to have a very hard time getting through the egg. One egg tried to hatch and got stuck. The second one we helped and is the only one that made it. We call her? Silly Suzy. Oh gosh......now I'm crossing my fingers 2 times over. (the dogs are all locked up now)
What a long day.
Christy
Oh gosh bless your heart Christy. What a day!!!!!!!! Again here wishing you a peaceful night.
Yea it will be grown up time this weekend. I get to go pick up my chicks in the morning, I already miss them and have not even got them or left for the weekend yet. I will go to the lake because I know this will be the last time for a while.
yeah, a lONGGGGG while, L2G2!
woohoo for ladybugs!!!
so thrilled for you, keep us updated. you are gonna be busy for a couple of days. these could straggle out a bit... hopefully doen by later thursday morning...
hats off to ya!
tf
Thanks all! Well, the 2nd chick that I helped out yesterday was out of it's shell this morning. It was looking pretty tired and weak and I was worried about it. I dipped its beak it sugar water several times off and on. Then, it took a BIG poo all over and looked very perky all of a sudden. I had to laugh. Both little chicks are doing really good now.
The 3rd I was helping FINALLY came out of its shell, and I really don't expect it to make it. It has a sore on it's belly, like the section around the 'belly button' is gone, the outside skin part. It's belly around wear the eggs sack would have gone in is HUGE! So big the poor little thing can't even stand up. One foot does not look right, the toes are curled under. Like I said, don't think he's going to make it. I put some triple antibiotic med on the sore spot, dipped his beak in sugar water and put him under the heat lamp.
Two more pipped this morning looking very dry, even though the RH is where it should be now. I have spent the day putting the eggs in warm water and using a toothpick a like in the above link. I don't really go all along the egg right away though. Right now I am more concerned that they have enough moisture inside to even be able to get out. I am kind of chipping off a little shell, re wetting the membrane, peeling back little bits of the outer membrane, then testing a little to see if the blood vessels have been 'sucked' in. Usually I can just see them and leave them be. I think putting a little warm water inside is helping, but I can't do that until the hole is big enough that I can see where the chicks nostrils are so I don't drown it. It is very slow going but I am being patient and careful to do what I can and get them back in the incubator for a while.
We tried to give the hen turkey back her eggs, but she was so shaken up by the dog chase and attack that it seems like all she can do at this point to stay alive. She couldn't have care less about the eggs to say the least, so they are still in the incubator. No pipping yet. I am still hoping the little poults are working on breaking out.......they are rocking a little, so I am picturing them making their trips around the egg with their eggs tooth. Oh, I hope all goes well with them. Mama hen did so well with all 14 eggs.....I just hope we don't screw it up. I figure with all I have learned with helping out the poor little dry chicks though, I will be able to help the poults out of their eggs if they need it and get stuck.
It's been a long day and could be a couple of more. If these little turkey's make it though, I guess we could come up with names like Fire Cracker and Sparkler! LOL
Christy
cool names!
the third guy JUST took in his egg yold, that is why his tummy is so huge, sprikle some flour on his open spot so it will stay dry and not get infected... as fara s his foot. LORAK has a thread with a picture of a splint she made... it works! also they may be just fine without it too...
Thanks tf....I will do the flour thing. I had read about the splint before....made out of a band aid, right? I had thought about doing that, but thought that maybe with his belly being so huge, his legs would be forced wide around the belly and then he wouldn't be able to move at all. All he can really do right now is a weird looking flop tumble thing. Hopefully that yolk belly will be down by morning. If it is and he is still with us, I will try the splint then.
Christy
no, you need to see the picture. it is tape, like clear cellophane or packing type tape, under and over the toes to straighten them, then trim around them... you have to do it right away...
tf
oh, I thought you meant the splint thing to put on them, like for keets when their legs 'spradle' and go every which way, but you meant the little shoe to straighten out the toes?
I'll have to keep that in mind for the next one. I think I discovered the cause of #3's problem and what is causing the big belly. After I logged off last night I went and got the flour and pulled him out of the cage. The sore had already dried up and looked perfect. Then I thought if maybe he would make a big poo like #2 did, his belly would go down and he would feel better. I checked his vent for any signs of pooing........it is not normal. I could make out the U shape of it, but it was more like an indent......there is really just a tiny pin hole there, not normal looking. I guess if I hadn't tried the sexing of the vent thing on another chick a while back, I might not have noticed that this chick does not have a normal vent. When I did the sexing thing with the other chick, I got 'squirted' pretty bad. This new chick has nothing but a pin hole going on and I don't think he can poop......that would make the overly huge bloated belly make sense. Wish I had a pic to post of it.......the belly is not solid looking, it looks bloated. DH just about culled him this morning after I told him, but he couldn't see what I was seeing as far as there being only a pin hole, so then I had my doubts and didn't let him do it. It the little thing starts yelping in pain, I'll have to do it........probably the dislocating the spine thing, but oh it will break my heart! I just hope he'll be alright.......though I'm pretty sure of what I saw.
The 2 chicks that I started helping yesterday were still not out of their shells this morning. Still alive though. I'm not sure if they are perfectly content to stay all nice
and snug, hanging out in the nice toasty warm incubator, or if they are too tired to
bust out of the rest of the shell. I did about as much as I figure I can do for them last
night.......I even followed the zip mark around the eggs and 'loosened' it for them like I did the first three. I'm worried about doing too much and at the same time I'm worried that they are just tuckered out and will die sitting in the shell. Of course if they are so
tired and I remove the shell the rest of the way from them, then won't they be to tired
too survive outside the shell?
DH found our little hen turkey dead this morning. I could just strangle the dog who did this to her. I am grateful to him for keeping the animals safe at night, but I am getting sick of this dog. I don't think he went after the hen because he thought she would make a tasty snack........I think he went after her because he is beyond over the top with being jealous of anything that gets any attention from anyone in this family that isn't him. He even stands and barks his head off if I hug my DH and he sees it. To this point I have thought he was annoying, but I hope this isn't the start of a much bigger problem.
The 14 turkey eggs are still in the incubator, no pipping yet.
Christy
Hi ladysbugs. I've done it both ways with chicks that pip and then just sat there in their eggs. Left them alone, kept the temp up near the high normal range and eventually they popped out. Also helped them out, by lifting the top of the egg off--and they eventually pushed out and were fine. Three that pipped and then went silent and I didn't help--well when I was sure they were not going to make it (i.e. dead), I opened the egg and saw that they had never absorbed their yolk--so it wouldn't have mattered if I'd try to help--they weren't going to make it.
I do think, even if you remove the top it is important to let them push themselves up and out of the bottom of the egg, sort of the bare minimum they should be able to do. One I lifted out had malformed hips and I had to cull it after three days. They do get tired after trying for more than 24 hours--but remember they have food reserves for 3 days, so if you can keep the RH high so the membranes don't dry out and the temp high, if the top is loosened and they are meant to hatch--they will. Sometimes they just need to rest for a while.
Thank you Catscan! I have been very busy with trying to hatch babies. I have been using all the great info and my gut. Just now a chick that I started helping yesterday early afternoon, then several more times and again this morning was really trying to get out of its shell and couldn't do it. I think the membrane is just too tuff. It had one foot hooked onto the edge of the shell and would give a little heave, ho......foot on one side and the presser on the other side going into it's shoulders and back. So I finished helping it. Just like we used to do with cows. We would work with contractions.....so I worked with the chick with every little heave ho......and he is out. He has a little trailing clear mucusy mass thing going on so I didn't pull the shell off. I couldn't find waxed paper to put on the wire in the incubator, so I dampened a baggie and put him and the trailing eggs on it. I figure if he should get stuck to it, I can wet it and free him. I sure hope its going to be ok. I took a pic, but don't know when I'll be able to post it.
A sixth egg started to pip and normally I would have just left it alone for awhile.....but it had pipped in one tiny place and then busted up a whole different area, about a centimeter from the original pip, so all I could think was this was odd and this chick is in trouble......so I went to work with warm water and a tooth pick. I was right. The outside membrane was very dry and like rubber. The inside membrane had 'sucked' in, very dry.....'locking' the chick in place. I got a good section of the outer membrane pulled away, by very slowly wetting it, using a toothpick to separate the outer and inner membranes from each other.......leaving the inner membrane to where I could see the blood vessels. I wet the inner membrane and luckily the blood vessels over its beak were already absorbed, so I was able to take it away. Back in the incubator it went. He just started, so he probably has a while to go yet.
I find myself referring to the chicks as hims, because losing any chick is hard to lose but I'm thinking losing a pullet seems a little harder somehow. I am happy to state that the 1st 2 he's I am happily calling 'hers', but of course I really don't know for sure. : )
Christy (hoping I'm not boring anyone with all the details)
yeppers, and when they are resting, they are taking in that yolk, and getting their resreve strength for pushing out. htey need to toss and turn a little when they come out, and to stay on wire for 24 hours to be sure their legs form into good strong bones. they actually have no bone when they are in the egg...
is that the Boxer dog? hope you get something for him at the auction now!
hang in there Christy, it is so hard to know. but sometimes you can candle the bottoma and see if the yolk is still out or not, that may help you with this difficult decision making...
tf
we crosse dout posts, congrats on helping the guy! why wax papaer on the wire? they n eed that wire to build strength in their toes...
do not wet it, he needs to dry out. so move th baggie and let him drag it around, it will fall off when it dries. you can do a little flour there too... or carefull snip it close to the shell to get the shell out...
details are great! glad you have cow birthing experience sure helps...
tf
Thanks tf......I read that when a little chick is so wet that you should put waxed paper under them, on top of the wire so they don't get stuck to the wire. I might not have been so worried about that......but the trailing part is wet and mucusy, so I worried that it would stick to the wire....then when he starts moving around yank it and make his belly bleed or something. He's resting now, laying flat on the wire....I'm sure he will get up soon.
I'm wondering if I should snip and flour the mucusy trailing thing. I don't see any blood veins leading to its belly, don't really see that it is part of the belly, just don't want to fool with too much. Have you seen the clear stuff before? He also has that open a little bit sore spot going on, like the 3rd chick did, but that one just seemed to go in and dry up on it's own.....so I'm not so worried about it.
No, this time the turkey killing dog is not the boxer.....surprisingly he has been leaving the turkeys alone.........maybe with lots and lots of time on the chain he has learned his lesson? We just can't risk the worry about it anymore and he eats twice as much as the other 3 dogs put together, so it is time to go. I know it is not his fault he was not born very bright and I have worked and worked with him to teach him what he has learned, but at the end of the day all he does is lay around, eat and eat more and sleep some more. He really offers no protection for the other animals and will make another family a very good dog, just not us. He is a very good looking dog, so I hope he brings a good price. I hope who ever buys him keeps his name as Buster, because it took him over 4 months of almost constantly using his name for him to catch that I was in fact talking about him. Poor guy.
The one that killed the hen turkey was Cowdog, the corgi mutt mix. He has been a very good dog with only one incident with chicks, which he very quickly learned is not ok. He is the one that does so good with barking at night when any varmits get close, has warned us of coons and opossum in the barn when we hadn't gotten all the holes like we thought we did and even treed a couple of coons once. I just hope this is an isolated event and not a sign of things to come!
We just lost the 3rd chick.......his belly was huge and he couldn't really poo.......poor thing. At least he is not suffering now.
Christy
Yes, everything tf said. And congratuations! Don't worry about the mucousy thing--I think it is part of the yolk membrane that they don't absorb--maybe part of the chalaza. All my chicks have had it to varying degrees--most leave it behind in the egg--some drag it around for a bit before it dries up and falls off.
Watch for membrane over the eyes of the ones "locked in" by the membrane--you will know if it is causing problems if they stumble around peeping with their wings stretched out after they dry out (they all stumble around and peep the first 24 hours). They will behave very differently than the other chicks--just wash their head with warm water a few time to clean off the membrane. I think it is pretty rare--but it did happen with my one chick that had the membrane lock him in.
Thanks Catscan! I will watch the one with the locked in membrane.....the temporary blindness is caused by the inner membrane sticking to the eyes right? I don't think that will be much of a problem this time. I have been peeling back the inner membrane from their eye as I come to it.....they could still have a film though, so I will keep an eye out. I'm so glad I learned about that! (and that you did too)
Thanks for the info on the mucusy thing too. Now I am not nearly as worried about it!
Christy
Update ~ we have 5 chicks now that are fine. I have had to help 8 now, they are just so dry they are locked in. One chick was deformed and didn't make it, one hatched out of the egg but didn't make it out of the incubator.....sorry to be graphic, but it's insides came out.....anyone ever had that happen? One little chick is still in the shell, I have been working on him since last night. His condition in the shell has not looked like the rest, so I don't know how he will fair. No more pips in any of the other eggs. At this point, I would be surprised to see any more, but you never know.
Nice surprise last night.......the baby poults started pipping last night, 3 of them. I left them be last night and when they were in the same condition this morning, I started helping them. They are still in their shells and several more have pipped. I am crossing my fingers that all goes well and we have a good turn out! It seems very odd and sad that their mom died on the same day they started pipping.
Christy
I'm finding this thread fascinating. Thanks for posting it!
I know absolutely nothing other than what I've learned on this thread, but, what is pipping? Is that when they start to break out of the shell?
I'm sensing that I may be in trouble here. Next thing I know I'll be trying to hatch baby chicks. ^_^
Hi JoanJ--yep "pipping" is when the chick first breaks a small hole in the egg. It is amazing that they can do it--you first see a sort of radiating crack--like a small bb hit it from the inside and you start hearing the chick peep--it means they have broken through into the air cell and are cutting their way through the inner and outer membranes and the shell. They gradually work their way around, and the pecking of the membrane cuts off the blood vessels that have been supporting the chick from the yolk--the chick has also absorbed the yolk through its umbilicus before it pipped so it has plenty of "food" for the 2 or 3 days it takes all the chicks to hatch before the hen can take the group out to forage.
I've noticed that once they have worked their way around at least half the egg (like little internal can openers) they really start pushing up with their backs and shoulders until the top pops off and they tumble out all wet and uncoordinated. It is endlessly fascinating.
And this is the best site I have ever found for helping anyone who wants to try it. Everyone will talk you through the whole experience.
But they are also terrible enablers.
Try it you will like it!
Thanks! That is kinda what I thought, but I'm terribly ignorant to this whole process. It's very fascinating and I've learned a lot.
:0)