Philosophy/ Common Sense Thread

I know there are you out there that have beliefs,thoughts,reasons,rantings,etc. on alot of subjects,that sometimes include farming/gardening and sometimes they don't, I know I do. I have some basic beliefs I that I try to live by and some that I would like to follow but haven't yet.
So how about some of you? Any of you willing to say what you think? or should I say any of you live by what you say?
I will put 1 philosophical thought I like, then later I will put others.

When Bankers Rule,
Modern society has made the bank account,the standard of values. When the bank account becomes the standard of values the banker has the power. When the banker has the power,the technician has to supervise the making of profits. When the banker has the power the politician has to insure law and order in the profit making system.
When the banker has the power the educator trains students in the technique of profit making. When the banker has the power the clergyman is expected to bless the profit-making system or join the unemployed. When the banker has the power the Sermon on the Mount is declared unpractical. When the banker has the power we have an acquisitive not a functional society.

Tom

TomK, interesting thread to start.....in the same vein, I finally began to comprehend true stewardship when I realized it isn't about how much of "MY" money (or time or energy or talent) I give to God, but how much of God's money/time/energy/talent I keep for myself. Looking at things in that light helps me keep a better perspective on life.

Summary...Money is the root of all evil. Yes, it makes things easier, especially when you consider Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. This society places status on financial image and gain. We live in a money-driven society, so yes, I would agree with the Banker's Rules. I think that everyone should have some industry in their lives to meet their survival and comfort needs, pursue their natural talents (which everyone has) and have the ability to look at their lives and judge themselves by their standards and not those of the bank. Unfortunately, many people work and can't even provide for their family's basic needs, crime and hate in society plaque the good of society, and the tenderest of hearts often find harsh realities from the storybook tales of their childhoods. I believe that every person makes a difference, in even a small way. Maybe that difference will be contagious in a good way. I think a good way to start is to not judge yourself by how much money you make/don't make/have saved/etc..but see yourself first on the inside, as a unique human being with the gift of life, intelligence and a human heart :)
Trish

My pappy told me about 50 years ago, if you want to keep your friends, don't discuss religion or politic's

I really don't care for this type of discussion, in the garden.

Just my .02

Byron

Byron, reminds me of the three things I don't discuss with my inlaws: Politics, religion, or anything else.

My Mum always said she her own religion (she was a Sunday School teacher BTW). I think Byron's pretty much right on this, although I'm very sorry to say it.

But remember this oft-misquoted scripture actually says that it's the LOVE of money that's the root of all evil.

And Byron, your point is taken; but if religion has no place in the garden, how do we explain the Farmer's Almanac? Last time I checked it was still chock-full of wit, wisdom and pithy sayings that sometimes border on (gasp) religion, all intermingled with gardening advice and folklore...

All jokes and dire warnings aside, I do regularly talk with my friends and inlaws about religion AND politics; in fact, my mother grew up in Carthage, TN with "little Al" Gore, and is proud to be one of his biggest fans. And I'm a dyed-in-the-wool conservative Republican (is that unnecessarily redundant???) Our conversations during the election were only a little tense ;0)

Actually, I thought it could be interesting to see what Almanac-ish type thoughts, quotes and expressions this thread might generate......

My philosophy is: Get a kid started in gardening and caring for pets when he's young, and you will raise a kind, caring, loving, responsible person who has learned one of secrets of enjoying life the simple way.

"Live as if you were to die tomorrow"
"Learn as if you were to live forever"
Mahatma Gandhi


No religion, no politics, just joy in life and knowledge, cheers!

People worship money and money has become their god much like the golden calf did with moses. People now wonder why we have all the drug and crime problems that we have. Could it be that parents are to busy working to properly care for their children? Could it be that the fine for cruelty to animals is stiffer than the one for cruelty to children. Remember the guy that got 1 year for killing a rat with a club (the rat was in his back yard). We have all of these animal rights groups almost none for kids.
I think the other half of the problem is that people want government to be/do everything for them.
We used to "deal" with our homeless at local churches and civic groups. We used to take care of the elderly within our families. We used to help one another out when we fell on hard times. I could go on and on. Now we rely on the government not our churches and local civic groups. This makes us to dependant on the government. It also gives the government too much control over how we live our lives. Who controls the government? Big business thru contributions to the politicians. Which means that you and I have little control once they are elected. We must stop asking government to do and be everything for us and we MUST rely more on personal responsibility, family, church and local civic groups.

If we choose not to discuss politics then we might as well life in a communist country. One of the responsiblities that comes with living in free country is discussing politics.

Marlowe : Well said ; my thoughts exactly . I love the land and put on this Earth to improve and protect it . The hardest part will finding my successor :))
Sari is correct too : TOO MUCH gov't in the USA and CANADA / with too much subtle corruption .Maybe someday there will be a true Democracy with " Gov'ts For the people and operated by the people ".
Rock On !!

I think the essential point, Sari, is to keep issues fairly general. Politics, yes, but not too heavily on party politics. Likewise any discussion on religion ought to allow enough room for other faiths. We have to respect other people's viewpoints. It doesn't mean we have to agree with them.
I think the important thing is to keep DG safe from extremists and weirdos. I was looking at another website last night and there was somebody really weird. I like to think that Dave and Trish would have intervened, at least if asked.

You might notice that Dave and I pretty much stay out of these discussions altogether. With the wonderful members that we have, its pretty easy to do this. Very rarely have we stepped in. In my opinion, it takes all types to make the world go around. I'm allowed to dissagree with your views, and you can with mine. Its only a problem if people start getting rude about it. If you dissagree with me, fine. You can even let me know, it won't get you booted off the site :)
Just don't get rude about it.

I'm sure there are discussions that some people want no part of. That's your right. You can ignore those posts, as you wish.

It constantly amazes me that all of you can have differnt views on things, yet it doesn't get out of hand.

I know all too well that words and thoughts are hard to get across in posts. Sometimes feelings get hurt, but no ill will was meant. Rest assured that if there ever was a serious problem, people cussing each other over a dissagreement, for example, we would step in.

Free speech is important to us. Respect even more so.
IMHO, these are pretty simple guidlines to follow. Thankfully, its worked pretty well so far!

Thanks to the members for being the nicest, politest people on the net!

Trish

To all who have responsed to this Thread,
First, I want to thank you!
Second, My grandmother use to tell us "our bodies need a mulitude of ingredients to survive" and then she would pull out the tablespoon and Cod Liver Oil, and then Grandpa would have us read and discuss parts of the Constitution,Bill of Rights and the Sermon on the Mount.(he did not trust schools to teach important subjects)
Maybe this is not the place for thoughts and views except only on gardening,(which by the way I did ask for beliefs and thoughts about farming /gardening) but then again if we shut ourselves off from open discussion on everyday subjects, do we not shut ourselves off from the world, and become isolationists. I don't know about all of you, but when I am working,be it in the garden,tractor,plowing,barn,basement,job,etc. my mind is not always on what I am doing at hand I am constanly thinking about this and that and what can I do to better this or maybe why are they getting away with that and I can't, I also usually listen to the radio news (NPR)or talk shows(religious and otherwise, I also enjoy discussing things and views with neighbors and friends.
Religion and politics are just 2 ingredients in modern day living that is necessary to keep on top of in order to survive today,(just like keeping on top of bio-engineered foods,or pollution of our waters,which are 2 that also can create a heavy discussion)if I did not keep up on those views and other views or opinions or other peoples actions, I would not be a very responsible husband in helping raise our children to become responsible, industrious,independent future citizens.
I did not mean to start some terrible war here I thought that it would be just kinda neat to get some other views and thoughts and personal live-bys from other people and different places and maybe, just maybe talk about them a little.
I am sorry if this thread has cause any problems.

TomK

Well, I'll jump in with something to chew on...what do you think of this article : http://www.wichitaeagle.com/business/wiregen/docs/pickens0820_txt.htm
I think it's a horrifying concept. Maniacal, insane, grossly greedy...

Excellent thread! Nice to see a discussion where everyone can voice their opinion and no meanness ensues. Well done.

If my recollection is correct, one of Henry Ford's famous quotes was a reply to the question of what do all people want? "Just a little more." Living contentedly within one's means doesn't translate into the language of Mr. Pickens and his ilk - they just don't get it, so with their dying breath they'll still be scrapping and clawing for "just a little more."

I would like to add that I like the idea of being able to get off the subject. I dont do much surfing on the web (not very good with the computer). Have tried other sites and have found the ones I visited to be very rude at times (perhaps I didnt stick around long enough and others I stuck around too long). Like to keep my interests under the least amount of roofs.
I like Daves garden because the people are nice and the constitution lives. If someone likes the thread then they are free to join in. If they dont like it they are free to pass it by. Different strokes for different folks.
I also beleive that there isnt as much protection for children as there should be. I beleive that animal protection is important because animal abuse is a precurser to people abuse. If you can stop a child from abusing an animal then perhaps you can stop the voilence there. It helps some anyway.
Woodspirit----right on the money... In doing those things you feel good about yourself and you grow to be a better person to yourself and others
Janice

It takes a certain amount of posessions in order to exist, and a certain amount beyond that in order to be comfortable in that existance. A still further amount of course, may be unneccesary for survival, but that doesn't mean that the aquisition is "evil" (whatever your definition might be of that). None of us can be as free as the lark with only a straw nest. Nor would I want to be. It's the big brain on humans that gives us the capacity to strive for something more.

Us human animals have invented several interesting games along the way in order to maximize our own ability to reproduce and pass on our genes. It was the successful hunter who could capture a bison or two rather than just a pheasant that had the ability to provide for a mate and offspring, and thus was considered the more "desirable". Those who corralled the most cookies in the cookie jar had the most chance of passing along those chromosones. Humans genetically self select for "success" as a means for survival of the species. Modern bond traders or oil millionaires are just the ultimate product of that self selection. Either their ancestors succeded in corralling all of the modern "bisons" or their they did by their own efforts. Thus, aquisitions of property beyond what is basic is a mark of genetic viability--for both males and females nowadays.

We don't necessarily "worship" money, but it is the most visible measure of success in man's struggle against his environment. It's why capitalism has succeeded in the long run over communism. It's why socialism has such a hard time gaining a foothold in most western societies. People simply do not want to let go of any of their own hard earned assets---even if it's for the "good" of the populace at a whole. Really, that isn't being "selfish" or "greedy". It's being true to the real basic nature of man. The survival of the species as a whole is determinant on the successful reproduction of the most viable individuals.

...and we can just consume our way out of existence...and then what's the point of evolution?

[ Removed by member request. - Admin ]

[ Removed by member request. - Admin ]

Sunflower, I think we're beginning to realise that greed may not be a trait we should pass on to posterity. Hooray for Seattle and Davos!

What I like about this place so far is the amount of general good will evident. I've read a few threads and in all of them there has been a bit of disagreement, but it has always been civil disagreement. And it has also been productive disagreement.

The person that I learned the most about farming from was my grandfather. He went through the 8th grade in a country school and spent the rest of his life reading everything he could get his hands on, poetry, history, philosophy, biography and the Hoard's Dairyman among other farm journals. He descried the lack of what he called 'native intelligence' in the middle part of the last century, but he also subscribed to the belief that improvement was possible and that progress was a thing to be embraced and used within the parameters of common sense and with the basis of your personal philosophy firmly established. He encouraged education and exploration and never once did I hear him bemoan the fact that I was 'just a girl.' He was probably the most liberated person I have ever known, and yet he never lived more than 10 miles from where he was born and his travels were confined to hunting trips and trips to visit family. He was not perfect. It has taken me a long time to accustom myself to the fact that he never really liked my father (the man did marry his only natural child, after all), and he wasn't one to suffer a fool lightly(and, back to TomK, that included most bankers!), but he left us all with the belief that farming was an honourable profession and that we had the responcibility to educate ourselves at every opportunity and involve ourselves in our communities. And that's where I stand now, into another century.

Kathleen