Winter sowing bust

So I finally gave up on my containers today. Out of 20 containers, only 8 germinated. None of the containers with topsoil germinated anything (except weeds). Of the containers that did germinate something, 3 of them had only 1 seedling, and the max # of seedlings was 5 (I sowed about 25-30 seeds in each container).

The species that did best were teaberry (Gaultheria) and obedient plant (Physostegia). Ironically, the teaberry is considered "difficult from seed." Not a single hardy geranium (G. maculatum), tick-trefoil (Desmodium canadense), or columbine (Aquilegia canadensis) germinated.

Obviously, topsoil was a bad mistake I won't make again. But even some of the containers with potting mix failed to germinate. I wonder whether low-quality seeds were to blame. Stratification probably wasn't the issue, because every container got at least a month of cold weather, and most of these species require only short stratification. I did pop open a lot of the containers about 2 months ago when we had a hot stretch, and some of the containers subsequently suffered squirrel depredations. Finally, another issue might be that some native species simply don't like container culture. I hope there's some truth to that, because I have about 125,000 seeds I'll be direct-sowing this fall!

I'm sorry your results weren't what you'd hoped for. Have you dumped the containers into your flower beds? Sometimes they'll sprout there and you'll find surprises.

What kind of containers did you use? Which potting mix?

Karen

Jsorens, I'm also sorry that your WS experience was so disappointing. Your present conclusion that using a lighter potting-mix soil is key. I use Miracle-Gro, but there are many types recommended on the WS forum. My own experience this year worked out to about 90% of my WS containers germinated--some much better than others---but I've been doing this for a year now and have learned a few things about when to cover them in freezes, etc., and when to uncover them. I also sow with a relatively heavy hand, which means that I sometimes have to thin out, or re-pot, the little darlings.
I must admit that my WS germination results are still probably less consistent than when I sow some of the same seeds under lights, but WS is SO much easier and cheaper and in the end, I still get a lot of seedlings that I really don't have room for!! LOL
I can't comment about the quality of the seed you used, but as far as the suitability of different kinds of seeds: the Dave's Garden WS data base presents other folks' experiences with lots of different seeds. You may have already consulted this in your planting, but if not, the list can be helpful as to which seeds are "worth" WSing.

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/ws/

Yes, I'll have to check out the database before WS'ing this year. I think I'll restrict myself to WS'ing food crops and "easy" seeds like annuals this year. It can be expensive to experiment with native species!

I did scrape out the top layers from all the containers and scatter the dust and seed. Maybe some of it will still be viable. All the soil was still moist, so I suppose it's possible.

Did you have adequate ventilation? I found that the containers I hacked holes in myself were more likely to germinate than the ones with my husband's tidy tiny drill holes. In some cases the soil was damp and moldy! One plant I really wanted (Alyssum saxatile) was in one of those early moldy containers. About March I put a few extra seeds in a plastic cup with holes punched in the bottom and bingo, germination. It's now waiting for me to prepare a permanent place of honor.

hyjack for a second would styro coffee cups work with some type of top?

Cups might work, but in general they wouldn't be big enough for most plants. I remember seeing someone with pics of cups that worked for them, though.

Jsorens, that's great to have grown Gaultheria from seed. Good luck with those! I'm jealous.

I didn't see mold, but some of the containers had greenish film on top. I used mostly milk & water gallon cartons with no lids, so that's a pretty good-sized hole at the top...

I used styro cups, with holes punched in the bottom and plastic over the top. They worked well.

I had good germination in styro cups as well. I put them into dollar store lasagna pans and covered in thin clear plastic. I use them for my spring and summer sowing.

Joanne

Yeah, that greenish film is what I'm calling "mold". We needed MORE HOLES, top and bottom.

hmmm..I'm sorry you didn't have good results. I have never had a problem with the containers of milk/water gallon jugs. This was my third year ws'ing and I'm still sold on it. I use either promix or miracle grow. This was my list from this year http://www.lakehousecreations.com/wintersown_2008.htm and this is how I sow the seeds http://www.lakehousecreations.com/wintersowing_directions.htm . I wouldn't give up. Try again next year.

I gave up too quickly on some of my WS containers. I now have snapdragons coming up where I dumped that soil (gave up on them after 2-1/2 months--guess they just liked the change of scenery), and can't for the life of me remember which container I dumped in my butterfly garden, but it is germinating wonderfully! I saw some buds this morning, so should be able to identify once they bloom. LOL

I am sold on WS now. Almost everything I did by WS is thriving and tough, while many of the ones I started indoors didn't live through the transplant, despite my careful hardening off, or just haven't grown much in the month since I planted them out. I don't have all day to garden (though I wish I did), so prefer plants that stand their ground and don't need a lot of babying!

Already saving piles of milk jugs for this winter, much to DH's dismay. He keeps trying to haul them off to the recycling center.

Question--has anyone tried WS in the square red or green plastic containers that Folgers coffee comes in? DH brought home about 30 of them from the break room at work. I know they are great as impromptu pots for plants I'm digging up to give away (I just drill holes in them first), but didn't know how important it is for light to be able to get in through the sides of the container for WS. The containers that worked best for me last year were the milk jugs, which are translucent white, so a little concerned with using opaque plastic. Also wondering how hard it will be to get the plants out of the pots, since they are square, but the opening is round. Maybe I should cut the top off, so it is just an open-topped square? They would fit nice and tightly together. . .

Hmmm.

Many thanks to everyone who encouraged me to try WSing! I loved it!
Angie

Angie, I used several square clear plastic containers with round tops this year myself--they originally held salted nuts--and they were clear, so I didn't have a problem for light getting in. BTW, I think that light IS very important--maybe you could use the Folgers containers by cutting the tops off and then packing them into a mini-greenhouse that you made by placing them into a much larger container with a plastic top (that you poked vent holes in.) A lot of wintersowing folks have made these out of plastic storage bins and the like. You do have to be sure that your large container has good drainage.
When I use my square plastic contianers I DID have a problem getting the seedlings out, since I hadn't cut the top off and the round opening was smaller than the container. I ended up cutting the containers open down the sides, and narrowly missed maiming myself several times since the rigid-sided plastic container was a lot harder to cut than the softer milk-jug plastic!
It's all live and learn with wintersowing, at least for me!

As long as we don't maim ourselves . . . I'm not sure that counts as "live and learn"!

Thanks, CCG. I already sliced myself badly once with a pocketknife this year (trying to get plastic packaging open from my DS's Christmas present), and had to get a series of stitches in my thumb. It is still peeling and splitting, and the nail still won't grow right, 6 months later. I think I'm a little more careful about having to cut plastic now!

Maybe I'll stick to using the red & green containers as pots, and keep using the milk jugs for WS. Thanks for sharing your experience!

Angie

This was my first year for winter sowing and what I used were those clear clamshells that greens come in. I hate them environmentally, but you hardly see greens in anything other than them these days. Anyway, I had fantastic germination using potting soil and worm castings. I put plenty of holes in the containers, but half the time forgot to put the tops on. When I did, I usually put them on askew so that the humidity wouldn't build up too much. The longest germination times I had were on:

Passiflora maypop 2 of 3 seeds 12 weeks
Stanstacoma (a vine) 3 of 3 seeds 10-12 weeks

Like you, I was about to throw them out, then one popped up, thus I was forced to keep the containers and the others did finally come up. They are planted in the ground now, but all very small--about 6" tall. Some other seeds took longer to germinate than the packet or online information said by twice. Next year, I'll be a lot more selective in winter sowing because I don't have the right setup for the numbers I seeded. I think much of my success was just good luck.

Yes, I agree, good ventilation is pretty important to keep the moldy stuff at bay.

And also wouldn't give up too soon.

I had a few containers that were very late and I guess the seeds needed the warm temps or good sunshine to get going.

On the whole I had a fairly good WS crop this year ~~ and WSing was so much easier for me than the seeds I tried to start under lights...

I used the 'random small containers (each with drainage slits) set into a large (ventilated and drained) rubbermaid storage bin' method and it worked pretty well.

Also used the Pro-mix BX or the Miracle Gro planting mix for WSing.

I think it takes a year or two to experiment with techniques, seeds, and materials that work in your particular micro-climate, too.

For those that used rubbermaid containers to hold all the smaller containers, did you use the lid? I'm assuming you'd have to put lots of holes in both the container and lid. . . If I do milk cartons or something with tops already, I'd probably just use a low container to keep them contained, like an underbed style. For all my little containers, maybe one with a lid would be better. Interested in hearing how others have done it!

I usually use some cups in an underbed storage box with the lid snapped on. I use mostly milk jugs and a few 2 liters corraled into bins like this pictures. (No lids on these bins, except snow)

Karen

I used the lid on the Rubbermaid (style) bins. I took a drill and made a lot of drill holes in the tops and bottoms.

I'll have to try some in bigger containers this year. I just had a little settlement of miscellaneous containers on my picnic table! This was my first year WSing, and I am hooked!

Jsorens -- i had quite a few that i had given up one ... and just never dumped the soil ... I came home, from being away off and on since about memorial day , and now i have more seedlings. Some i just planted today.

Some I am almost convinced are weeds ... but others, like Zebra Mallow, that i had given up hope on .... are now in the ground.

I did find this year, my second year WS'ing .... i did NOT poke big enough holes in the bottoms ... had a lot of green mossy mold, and moldy or rotted seeds.

Last year 2007, i had great success with Cosmos ... this year, zip. Some times ya just don't know.... and as for the expense .... I got into a huge seed swap in the Seed Trading forum. I think I got over 200 varieties of seeds for the cost of postage. [less than $10 for sure] I've gotten seeds/plants i've never heard of before....

might be something you'd be interested in come late Fall, mid winter.

Certainly don't limit yourself to annuals, when there are so many easy to sow perennials out there.

Terese