Too Many Ravenous Rabbits This Year!!!

I think the math adds up to something like 168 rabbits from the first mating of an adult in early spring. Thank God for preditors, road kills, plus back yard trappers and shooters.

The first two I see are bunnies. All beyond them are Sunny Beaches and I become the preditor.

Thanks Everybody!!!! Your humor is making me feel better. Well, i'm certainly going to have an interesting garden design. A whole lot of the plants, i couldn't tell what they were as they were all mixed up. I feel a lot of future plant moving coming on. Before, when i used cold frames,even when leaving the doors open, they never went near the plants, so I didn't think to cover them.

The first year, i used plastic cold frames, but my grass guy tore the heck out of them with the weed wacker. Last year, i put bales of straw in a rectangle and set old storm doors on top for a cover, and when it warmed up, put screens in the storm doors. I decided not to use cold frames this year, because they made such a mess of the grass, and i didn't start the seeds until pretty late.

Gita, I'll send photos of the wire to your mail box for your return. It didn't seem particularly hard to handle, just was time consuming as each link had to be cut with wire cutters. only frustration was the cut edge would keep snagging on the mesh when trying to erect them. I wove 3 or 4 bamboo plant stakes through them to secure them to the ground for the wind.

The HD only had the plastic stuff in the garden center. They keep all of the wire ones back in the fence dept. buried in building supplies. they probably won't put it on end of season sale as it's not in garden supplies.

Critter, I did buy some of that hardware cloth. It's a lot stiffer and harder to shape. I think it will be good around shrubs. I like that it has very small holes. Have to get some gravel. I'm starting to feel like i live at HD!!

I wouldn't eat squirrel if you paid me!!!!!!!!!!!!

Those tree rats make a dandy stew. You have not lived a proper and fitting life short of that experience. Harr Harr :)

docgipe, it's up there with bungee jumping, 2 experiences i can live without.

Cherry tomatoes imprisoned! Pull 1 bamboo shoot out that is woven through the overlap and you have picking access.

DSO hung the wire off of the deck on a makeshift spool to make it easier for me to handle.

Well, I spent the weekend critter proofing! I did go and buy up the rest of that snake repellant. PU do my beds smell!!!! Today I saw no wildlife about except birds. Not a squirrel in sight!!!! Hart, you may have sent us down the right path!!!!

There were more holes in my beds, but another DGer in another forum said that she had similar holes and they turned out to be ants. Imagine ants making holes that big! She sent photos and indeed they looked the same.

There was digging done at the new Heuchera and Camellia that I planted. I sprinkled Molemax around all of the new plantings. It says that it prevents all burrowing animals from digging. We'll see, I can't possibly erect cages around every new plant!!!!!

I'm well armed with more goodies to try,and will soon have the Ramik!!! Now I have to refill all of the holes and remulch everything and see if there is anything new. At this point I'll be planting through July!!!

I hope Gita is having a safe trip. I visited Riga in Latvia in the early 90's. It's a totally mideval city and was fascinating. It will be interesting to hear what has changed with the fall of the Iron Curtain.

I found these laying on the ground friday. Has anyone had critters tear their hosta apart?

Hoo hah look what fun I've been missing- you guys are a stitch.
Another thought on wire- my mom has the something-in-the pot-digging problem. I rooted in her shed and came up with a partial roll of stuff she has on her rain gutters to try and keep leaves out. Plastic, about six inches wide, and looks like mini black chicken wire fence. I cut pieces of it and fitted them together on the pot surface and pinned them down with decorative birds-on-a wire.* Seems like a good plan.
At my house I am covering the pot soil with smallish rocks - I have them everywhere.

I now have t o go and try to restore a pot o f tiny gardenia seedlings. stormy many sympathies, such a huge frustration for you!

* This challenge contest requires that I only use found material and not buy anything. Moms!

Good idea Sally! I have some of that & will try it next year. Day 3 and still no squirrels in sight, even my clothes smelled like Snake-A-Way when I came in last night!!!!!

DSO says that all of my caged shrubs look like I'm raising Tin Men!!

I have some young Hydrangeas that suffer bud frost in the winter. In the fall I plan to use these cages to put around them filled with leaves for insulation.

I saw a squirrel at the dentist's office having carbide caps installed. If this becomes a general practice your wire cages are already in the things to do list of all tree rat's. There's a good cartoon for some creative soul.

Doc, not at my office! If they don't have the cash they don't get on the schedule, and my boss doen't work for peanuts. LOL

This message was edited Jul 1, 2008 10:19 AM

Yes I know. I have a son who is a family dentist in Portland, OR. He is very good and as busy as he wants to be. He is also a great chip off the 'ole man's gardening shoulder. They are absolutely organic gardeners. He uses exclusion of plants that may require chemicals he refuses to use.

Well, The snake-a-way seems to work on the above ground creatures.
For the voles and moles it doesn't seem to have any effect. There are more holes and I saw one yesterday. They run so fast, it's hard to get a good look at them. Does anybody know if the treatments to eliminate them differ?

It's very eerie to work outside and not hear the movements of the squirrels. I'd gotten so used to their racket. Now all I hear are the birds and some insects.

The ants are certainly busy this year. Ant hills and holes everywhere. I saw the first beatle yesterday.

my little Kalanchoe is KIA- I stuck the broken parts in the pot yesterday and they were tossed out again today. She'll have to come up on the deck. I did Juicy Fruit last week. I haven't lost anything to voles back there this week yet.
They must have some good intelligence operatives- how else do they pick what you most cherish?

LOL the squirrel dental jokes!

Doc, You've got to be really dedicated to not grow the plants you love. Good for him.

Sally, sorry about your lovely casualty. If animals really do have inherited memories, some ancestor probably told him how happy you were the day you planted it. I hope the juicy Fruit works. Putting the plants on the deck doesn't help. The squirrels get into my deck pots and throw the dirt all over my table and chairs and floor. What a mess to clean up. Those pests just love to add insult to injury!!!!

Those little voles have their own website voles.com!!!! It says that an acre can have as many as 500.......I'm gonna need more pellets. I spent the day putting down pellets and filling the holes.

Just call me Mother Death! Nothing but Genocide going on around here.

I sprayed the roses for beetles, and hung the beetle bags.

I sprayed the crepe myrtles for aphids.

I put slug pellets down around the hosta.

Isn't gardening supposed to be about growing living things?????????

Lady, I can send over a bunch of squirrels with pockets full of BLACK WALNUTS!!!!

I know we are on borrowed time but...............I have not seen a beetle yet. They are a bit late this year. We sprayed the grapes last weekend. Those buggers are out there somewhere but not here yet unless it started today.

Now here this..............I ate the first tomato known to be an honest red one today in our area. It was a Patio plant I started from seed about Feb. 15th. It had bloom and two buttons on it when we set it out for this summers growth.

Good for you Doc! I gave DSO the first truly ripe Cherry one today. I only planted Cherry, Romas, and Pa. Dutch sauce ones this year. They are all in pots and troughs "Behind Bars"!!!

I noticed the first beetle yesterday and by noon they had already done a lot of damage to the crepe myrtles. I only noticed them because I was poking around the myrtles for vole holes!!!!

Well, If those voles aren't pesky! Today, I found they had reopened the very holes I closed yesterday!!!!! No, Critter, one or two pellets is not going to work. Today I put dirt in the holes then added 5 or 6 pellets and then some more dirt. I'm using something from a company called Sweeney's. The Ramik should be here any day. Still no squirrels in sight and the beds are starting to smell better.

First squash bug on my gourds yesterday. In a month it will be awful. I gotta go make a jar of soapy water now so I can keep up.

When a vole re-opens a hole you just closed, that means it's an "active" hole and a good place to put a pellet or two of poison if that's what you're using. In my experience, one or two pellets is sufficient to kill one vole. (Often, I'm able to drive off all but one or two stubborn voles from my "choice" plantings.. so I'm only trying to kill one vole, not dozens at a time... that's how I know what "dosage" seems to be effective.) If you have lots of voles and lots of holes, you'll need to put a pellet or two down each active hole, as you've been describing. I think you're probably fine with 5 or 5 pellets, too, but I think the "heaping teaspoon" recommended on my bottle is definitely way more than is needed.

I'll get out int the garden this weekend and see what my pests have been up to! LOL

I am not seeing alot of new holes here, after mothball and Juicy Fruti and killed 5 by traps over about three week span. I did get a new hole today. Even So, I feel like my 1.95 cents on mothhballs and gum was maybe not a waste.
Branches of mint laid over my potted plants before a trip did not deter the pot-diggers. Maybe I'll take scissors out and snip a ton of mint over the pots soil.
But two of my pots are going into potato bags with a large mesh window one one side. Lovely!

This message was edited Jul 4, 2008 2:08 PM

In all my days of gardening I have seen to few voles and moles to be of any serious concern. They come and they go. I have not seen a mole since Milky Spore took out the grubs the mole likes. That's my opinion as to why they moved fifty feet one direction or another and are still in those neighbors yards and gardens. I can't think of any other reason. Worms are their food too and we have lots of worms. I see the Flickers workng the same ground the moles are working. Flicker goes for the larva big time right beside the moles. Interesting at least.

Yes doc, I'll try to sit back and see the big picture. What's the loss of five teeny seedlings in the grand scale of my yard?

But there were a zillion OTHER seedlings he coulda had that I don't care about!

In my backyard and patio area the pot diggers are 100% Chip and Dale. I just dug out my mini traps that work like Have-A-Heart. Four of them will take down the population to reasonable within a week.

Interesting read everyone.

Have a question for you doc, or anyone else who might know. Last year I had two beds which were over run with grubs. I treated them last fall with milky spore and I haven't seen any this year. I cannot remember what the bag said in terms of how often to treat. It it an annual thing, or can I wait a year or so in between?

Thanks for any help.

Ruby

Ruby..............If it was not Milky Spore it was a harsh but sometimes effective chemical. If you do not see grubs I would not use Grub X available at our Lowe's. It is a pretty harsh poison. Repeated use can upset the soil biological community and lead to other problems. One application of Milky Spore will last fifteen years or so and not cause any problems. Consideration being given to length of effectiveness Milky Spore is a much less expensive treatment to use.

Maybe this will help make sense of the difference. Milky spore is a bacteria that kills Japanese beetle grubs. I'm sure it kills some grubs the first year but it becomes more effective year after year as the bacteria has a chance to spread. The grubs eat soil containing the bacteria, they die and release even more bacteria, helping it to spread.

That's why it helps if your neighbors also apply it. Doesn't do a lot of good to kill the grubs in your yard if they're fat and happy and growing into beetles next door.

The bacteria doesn't harm other creatures, which is why it's so safe to use.

It's far less expensive in the long run but really expensive at the start. I checked last year and it would have been $40-some for a container that would only do a fraction of my huge yard. There's also zero chance of getting all these fields surrounding me done by the people who own them. I'm still tempted to maybe get one container and try it. It is by far the best solution to the Japanese beetle problem.

Thanks you two. I was hoping that it was not something that I had to repeat each year. I do not like the use of chemicals either, but this stuff sure did work well. I did not treat our whole yard. I treated an area with two small beds that were both full of grubs last year and thankfully none at all this year. I didn't have a problem with grubs anywhere other than this spot.

Can't say for sure but something last year had my gladiolus looking very poorly. The bloom would begin to open and automatically begin to brown rot. That is not the case this year, so I have to believe that there was some connection with the grubs and the awful state of that particular flower. Once again, I proclaim that glads are my all time favorites.

Thanks again.

Ruby

The most damage done by grubs is when they are in the larva stage. Often plant illness is little more than larva damage. Grubs are usually pretty well fattened up by the time we stir about each spring. The only way to stop this insane munching on your plant roots is to kill from all sides....underground and in the air after they emerge. The Jap Beetle for instance spends the majority of its life underground. The damage you see is scary but what you do not see is far worse year in and year out.

By using Milky Spore you literally eliminate most if not all white grubs and the same application may last up to fifteen or more years. Grub X may get them one year but repeated application is very expensive and the effectiveness of it wears off as your white grub beetle larve become monsters and then you will have to go to Milky Spore or be eaten alive.

In the last 3 years, I've read a lot about the treatments for moles, voles, beetles, slugs and grubs. My infestation is definitely voles, which I thought were moles. I have very bad problems with Japanese Beetles and brown beetles, "Stink Bugs". In reading that the beetle larvae were the food of choice for voles and slugs, I determined that eliminating the grubs was the fix. Many sources indicated that the larvae could lie dormant for 5 to 6 years, so continous treatment over that time period would be required for total control. I opted not to use the Milky Spore, because of the expense, difficulty of application and mostly because it only effects the larvae of the Japanese Beetle.

Two years ago, the voles were only visible in my front of house shrub bed and under my river birch in the front yard. The grubs are everywhere. Two years ago I began a twice per season application of Grubx on the entire property. I also hung Beetle Bags each year. In the heavily infested areas, I also tried the Mole "Worms" and "Moletox", which are also recommended for voles.

This year, voles are almost everywhere on the property. The earth over the run tunnels from the birch have colapsed and are now open rivulets. I suppose that I chased them out of there with the various products and they've now taken up residence in all of my flower beds. There have always been a few isolated small patches of dead grass here. They spawn a new litter every 3 weeks and live on average of 3 to 18 months. They can dig down to 5' & the tunnels are up to a quarter of an acre long.

I always spray susceptbile plants against beetles as well as hang beetle bags. I've just now read that beetle bags can actually attract more beetles to your property. Across the street is a home with hugh sections of the lawn dead from what I presume is vole munching.

Voles and slugs also eat worms and insects. In addition to the colapsed tunnels, I also have the holes everywhere and some sections of "Spongy" ground. My red twig Dogwood was getting sickly last year. This year, it survived and was leafing out, then died abruptly. I noticed the spongyness of the surrounding earth.

The first year, I personaly applied all of the treatments. Last year, as I was injured, I hired a professional who assured me that his products were superior to any publicly available. I will keep filling the holes and putting poison pellets in them. The secret does seem to be killing the grubs. I also have several bottles of rodent spray repellant to be used with a hose. It says it coats the bugs, worms and grubs and renders them untasty to the voles, squirrels and moles.

This year, I've not yet applied the GrubX. I have some and may only use it on the worst areas. I purchased some milky spore and will try it on those same sites. The Milky Spore website is very good. It explains that your spore will actually grow and spread to the neighbors yards. My property would require both of their products, the powder for the beds and the spreader mix for the yard. Supposedly the bed powder, which is applied at 1' intervals by hand, only needs one application, possibly another the 2nd year. The spreader mix, however needs 3 seasonal applications for up to 3 or 4 years.

For a one acre lot, depending upon the mix of beds vs. grass, the costs of these would be in excess of $1,200 the first 2 years and then about $700 the next 3. This is also way too much work for me, as my beds are very large, and I would have to hire someone to help. My infestation is quite bad and I've lost a number of shrubs and many perennials to the voles. Even more so, I'm concerned about the colapsing ground and the possiblity of my legs fracturing. I am considering it.

As an aside, I found a company, Snow Pond Farm, who has one of the best organic gardening supplement selections that I've seen.

Sally, I really think you should try that Snake-a-way. Nothing has dug in my pots for over a week. It's on sale at HD for $7 a gallon.

You are well read up on Milky Spore. It does however work on all white grubs not just the Jap Beetle. My property has been treated effectively by the powder applied at three foot intervals. I applied it once fifteen years ago (aprox.) and again two years ago at about the fifteen year point. The grubs making it up to adults are very few and when they return as adults to lay eggs the Milky Spore gets all but a few. By that I mean I may see half a dozen grubs that failed to contact the active spore. The only place I can get an easy count or estimate is in the garden patch of about one thousand square feet that I still maintain for my insane act of trying to grow a super giant pumpkin. Any that fly in from the neighbors lay their eggs in my treated soil and in process create millions of new fresh spore.

I treat about twenty thousand square feet walking along with a tablespoon flicking out an application roughly for every step of about three feet checkerboard fashion. From memory only that is three of the aproximately forty bucks cans of powder or less than $150.00. I treat all open soil and it expands or lasts up to fifteen years. To use Grub X would be more cost each year and exposes the soil to chemicals I prefer not to apply. The only reason Milky Spore would wear out would be a greatly decreased insect population to maintain the chain of production. That I suspect happended here after about ten or twelve years. At that point I reapplied and got the control back in another year or two. I'm seventy three years old. That should be good for the go in my lifetime. As for this year the beetle are showing up in great numbers around me while I see just a few hitting my favorite grape vines. I will introduce them to my warfare in the air within a day or two. That's their favorite fly in airfield. As of yesterday I have seen just a few.

If you rethink your math and work likewise I see no reason why it would not work for you and give good control in another year or two. The more grubs you have the better and faster it can do the job. Therefore I would not use Grub X if you deside to go with Milky Spore. I think it is neary to late to cause any good for this year using Grub X anyway.

I am aware that no such claims are made to indicate that this will break a portion of the mole food chain but it is the only difference I can figure between the fact my moles gave up working here years ago while my neighbors adjoining my property still have some and I see the Flicker working relentlessly on the neighboring properties. This would also indicate that Milky Spore does not effectively move. I think that makes sense because the larva do not move far from where the adults placed the eggs the year before. The fact that the new place eggs and the resulting larve die and create more Milky Spore where they die seems to be a relatively small area where the eggs were placed. I suggest that the spore might move in the manure of the Flickers or possibly the Starlings. This fact is just speculation. How else could it move as the company claims unless you moved soil and spore was a part of the move. It could possibly move as the earthworms move by sticking to the body of the worm.

Whatever I am very impressed with the white grup controll Milky Spore causes and maintains very well.

Thanks for all the info.

Ruby

Doc, Thanks for sharing your experience. I believe that my vole and beetle problems require a 3 part approach. I'll use the rodent spray to try to chase the voles away. I will spray the plants against beetles, but now am unsure of whether or not to continue using the beetle bags. I'll continue to place poison pellets in their active holes and I'm going to try the Milky spore to eliminate the food chain.

I have approx. 40,000 square feet to treat. The Milky spore powder literature calls for a teaspoonful every foot being dropped directly onto the soil, not broadcast. Milky Spore claims the 40 oz can treats 10,000 square feet. The Milky Spore website leads to suppliers who sell the 40 oz. cans for $90 each plus shipping. Snow Pond Farm sells it for $67 plus shipping. Where do you find it for $50? If you have success in using it with only a half of the recommeded treatment, perhaps that's worth trying . The dispensing tube also costs $10.

I was calculating using both methods as the powder application is very time consuming and back breaking. This is a big problem for me as I have major back injuries. The spreader mix needs to be applied with a drop spreader. Presently I only own a broadcast spreader and my calculations included a spreader purchase.

As I work full time and am still trying to fill the beds at my new home, planting and seed cultivation is my most time consuming effort. Not to mention critter control, weeding, dead heading, storm cleanup, insect & fungal control, pruning, etc. The spreader method, which is more expensive, seems a much faster and for me a less painful answer. I'd use the powder in the beds and spreader mix on the grass. The spreader mix calls for 3 applications for 2 consecutive years. The powder recomendations are either just 1 time, possibly another, the 2nd year. As my infestation is so bad, I included the 2nd year's application in the cost.

Many websites recommend Milky Spore as mole control, so I'm sure that you are correct there. Every source claims that Milky spore only works on Japanese beetles. As I am particularly unimpressed with the GrubX results, I will not be buying anymore just use up what I have, as the bag recommends a treatment in midJuly to August.

One often has to wonder about information on the web, at least 5 sites, some from government agencies indicate that there are no moles in the midatlantic region.

I am very sure my 40 oz. can called for an application on a three foot grid. That is what I did each time. I walked the grid to achieve an aproximate square block pattern. I just knew that looking at the total picture if it worked it was a lot less expensive than the Grub X. If someone is calling for more I would suspect it is a seller....or...maybe the cotton pickers are using a filler and consequently need more. I bought mine from a mid west supplier. I think my aged head messed up on my math. If memory being jogged by you is now correct I believe the 40oz. can was about $75.00. Using the powder drop from a half teaspoon full I may have over applied but there was also a spreader effect by some wind. Whatever it worked both times for me. There are larger packages available or there were and the price was less. Three cans of 40 oz nicely covered my property although that was more than reccommended.
My property is about 100 X 260 feet. I over ran the edges where I could. Two adjoining land owners approved. The third one plays bingo every Saturday afternoon if you know what that means. :) The powder is like talcum powder. It would be a hoot to apply that way in my opinion.

I am really pleased that your time spent in research has in fact turned up some amazing claims differences. You are doing a lot more of this than most will do. Incidently my local farm agent in whom I trust only so far gave me a wimpy answer considering the effective results I might expect. Being a chemical company store man he thought Grub X was a better way to go. I don't even talk to that one any more. In our next county we have a pretty good well and broadly experienced farm agent. He understands the healthy soil goals of organic principles. He should he lives right in the middle of some of our best Pennsylvania organic farmers. In fact my local farm agent told me I had messed up my soil to the extent that I would be lucky to grow anything on it. We were not meant to be in the same room so I let him have his leather covered throne and office to his own affairs and those who still chemical farm. He and his Master Gardeners have a standing invitation to visit my gardens and probe my practices to their hearts content with or without their test tubes. None have responded.

Doc, I just love your descriptive writing! "We were not meant to be in the same room" just about says it all. LOL. One day I'd love to see one of your fabulous pumpkins, whether raised "kosher" or not!

I wonder how fast it would spread if you didn't do your entire property? It really is out of the question for me to do more than a fraction of my land because of cost - I have a heck of a lot more than 100x260 feet to cover. I doubt if it would do any good too because of those luscious grub haven fields all around me. The beetles wouldn't even have to fly to get to my plants, they could walk. LOL

I have friends who still run a kosher house at home. That takes real management and financial ability. We try to be organic but no way can we be all the way. There are just to many stumbling blocks. I'd guess that we might be close to organic with about 75% of our foods eaten at home. We can see our beef in pasture and the flock of chickens we draw from running all over the farm. That farm is certified organic. Others operate that way but forgo the expense of testing and record keeping to claim themselves organic. We both feel better since getting away from the big box and all the stuff hitch hiking in their meats and produce. Those who say it is to expensive or at least some who say that need to look in the mirrow. Eating the proper amount could be less expensive than the best on the outside of our home. No 1200 calorie fancy coffee drinks in my life. Ice cream... well that is another story indeed. Mercy the temptations. We make more than a half decent effort to eat right at home. There is one chef in our area that runs an organic resturant. We have to stand in line often to get a table. Her supply network spans several states. Her breakfast of two eggs, three cakes and four ounces of saussage with coffee is $8.99. That may be inexpensive in New York but here that is reaching for many folks limits but they might pay six bucks for an imported organic brew with dinner. Go figure.

Hart, I was thinking of you when doing my calculations. Snow Pond Farms sells the Powder, not the spreader mix, in a 50lb drum. Their cost is $1350 ouch! It covers 5 acres, and would have to be hand applied. But right now they are having a special on 8 of the 40oz cans for $492. That is supposed to treat 40,000 square feet. This is actually a better buy than the big drum. If Doc is correct and you really don't have to use as much as they say, maybe that would be workable for you.

If not, perhaps you would get a lot less beatles by just treating your beds and not the grass. You might not have a lot of grubs living in your grass. You'd have to do some lifting of the sod in various spots to see.

I'm only considering doing the whole property because of the voles, not the beetles. Every bed here is loaded with grubs, despite 2 years of using GrubX.