Having grown up on a creek, trois, you are a very wise person. You don't wait to guess which snake when they do look like a poisonous snake and to relocate them sounds very very unwise to me. (I live on the creek right now and you, trois, seem to be well educated on venemous snakes ........)
I suppose it is easy for people to love snakes if you have never sat by the bedside of a loved one after being bit by either a rattlesnake, coral snake or cotton mouth.
Snake ID Request
Actually I have been bitten twice by water mocs when I was much younger, we lived very rurally and snake catching was a pastime LOL, not the wisest, and I'm lucky to be able to tell about it. The last time the doctor told me that I had enough resistance now that I should be ok. LOL NOT going to try it out though. I definately respect the danger factor of snakes, but I also respect their place in the balance of things.
Some folks may think I'm unwise, but I've caught and handled lots of different kinds of snakes in my 27 years. I used to walk 10-Mile Creek in search of golf balls and any critter I could get my hands on. I've never been bit by any snakes. Now that I'm married and have kids of my own I don't go looking for them, but if I see one in my yard, you can bet I'll catch it and relocate it instead of leaving it there for my children to find! To each his own, I say.
We, more and more are pushing the wildlife out of their natural habitat. It's only natural that from time to time our meetings will not always come out well (ie snake bites, bear bite, skunk...well you get my meaning). You can't, and wouldn't want to, eliminate these creatures. So all we can do is be aware and respectful of these creatures' habits.
Anne
Christie, you go right ahead and be afraid of snakes. I am terrified of spiders. How bad is it? I can't even look at the picture of a spider! If they're in the yard, I am respectful and leave them be. If they're in the house, they're dead. So I can understand your fear of snakes.
I must say, the level of respect for and admiration of snakes (even the venomous ones) that I'm reading here makes me very glad indeed.
Carla
Could/would a non-venomous snake kill a small dog (10-15lbs)?
Nonvenomous snakes bites are dangerous in that they contain a lot of bacteria, and without treatment, a difficult infection could ensue. Of course a released pet python or anaconda are a different story. They would definately see a small dog as prey, but fortunately that would be super rare as they are not native and don't go unnoticed for long!
Carla, I can understand you and the spiders. The terror I feel I can't control.
Don't have to worry about me killing anything I'd be too far away. When my kids were tykes, if I saw a grass snake green or brown, I would take them inside and lock the door. It didn't rub off on them. No explanation, just is what it is.
Christi
Christi, my terror of spiders comes from having 3 older brothers. Need I say more? :-(
Carla
We have relocated snakes when we first moved here about 11 years ago, but found that they can and do return, and also neither my son or myself have been bitten by a snake we saw first, as they rise up from concealment and strike without warning. Most of the snakes we have here are Cottonmouths, and they have eaten most of the rat snakes and king snakes. I have a picture here somewhere of a cottonmouth eating a king snake. We also have Coral snakes.
The cottonmouths are very aggressive at times and DW sits in her chair by the lily pond with a .22 in her lap. She has had to shoot two that left the water and came after her.
We all know ribbon snakes when we see them and we leave them alone.
I am with spiders, scorpions, and centipedes the way some in here are with snakes. Still, I leave them be if they leave me be. I believe all native critters have a place. When we displace those critters we wonder why the critters they kept in check are suddenly everywhere, and have become a nuisance.
I hate to say it, but here in the lower midwest we displaced the wolf, the black bear, and the bobcat: now we have a deer problem. The poor things are actually starving to death. I have seen herds of deer a hundred strong stop traffic on the Pennsylvania turnpike. They're grazing on the grass they can find. Now we have coyotes in Ohio (again, because the wolves are gone.)
Spiders keep insects in check. Snakes keep rodents and other small vermin in check. Predators have their place.
I have encountered rattlers and copperheads. I have found that if I heed the warning signs and give them a berth they'll leave me alone. From my experience they are as afraid of us as we are of them. ALTHOUGH I will say I am not in cottonmouth country, they sound dangerous.
I agree, a venomous snake near a residential area is not a good idea, but folks down in Australia live with the world's nine deadliest snakes and some of the world's deadliest spiders, not to mention the blue ringed octopus, in and around Sydney and their other major cities. They do it somehow without mass killings of native wildlife. I think a livable truce can be reached. :)
Phobias suck, though. Let a big hair spider scurry down my arm and I am running away from it swatting at myself invoking the name and protection of the Father, His Son, Buddha, Mohammad, Elvis, President Bush, etc.
-Joe
P.S. I still stand by my previous comment that the original snake picture looked cute. It seemed to have a pensive look on its face. I am a snake person, though. :)
This is a venomous snake that is very non aggressive, so we released it at the bayou.
Texas Coral Snake.
This is DW doing her early morning coffee by the lily pond. She keeps the .22 with her at such times.
Oh my!! She looks like someone that should not be messed with, lol
Anne
She left the gun home at the RU, where you met her. lol
Thank you Trois for identifying the snake that was chasing a large frog around my back garden last June--I have been trying to figure out what kind it was with the bright stripes off and on, when ever I had some free time (?). Personally, I ran in the back door and slammed it shut. I'm not getting close enough to a snake to relocate it.
Any venemous snake that can possibly harm me or any member of my family doesn't get a chance to be relocated, reproduce and cause more problems. My brother tried that at his house about a mile away with a coral snake about 5 years ago. They can't strike so they would have to get between your toes, etc to get you. They don't do anything but get the hoe now that they have a infestation of coral snakes for the last 3 years.
A bit on the Texas Coral Snake, which I am glad I read. He was out in the middle of the afternoon, chasing that frog down, which means he was this species of snake--not sure if he caught him or not--I was in the house by then:
http://www.houstonherp.com/Coral.htm
I hear ya gessie. I respect that. :) That coral snake is beautiful, trois. In Ohio we only have pit vipers, http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/wildlife/Home/resources/reptiles/poisonoussnakes/tabid/5685/Default.aspx .
-Joe
Oh, my. This whole conversation is giving me the willies.
Hey, Carla, I have three younger brothers. Probably not much different from having three older ones, huh? LOL.
I have really mixed feelings about the stuff being discussed here. I mean, you guys do realize that we're touching on major decisions that have to be made by humanity over the next few years? Wildlife is disappearing. We ARE getting more & more urban and pushing critters out of their natural habitat. I believe that all creatures belong in the chain of nature, or God wouldn't have made them. And yet, some critters are just too dangerous to live with. I've never seen a cottonmouth. But if I did, and if I had a shotgun, well, I'd use it. They are just too aggressive.
It's a hard question.
I am with LouC up there! I don't want any parts of snakes! In upstate Florida my grandma use to walk with hoe. They use to shoot those great big Water Moccasins because they came out at night and ate the chickens. I had several encounters as a child when visiting my grandparents. My latest encounter was right here in Dallas, when I came downstairs one night ... about two in the morning, I saw a snake about a foot long slithering towards the kitchen. I ran back upstairs, called the police and they sent out Animal Control the next morning. They pretend to look for it and said it probably went back outside, the same way it came in. My cat took to going underneath the stairwell all the time, I could not keep that trap door shut, I had even heard him scuffling under there and I was hopping it might had been mice. Until about two years later, a friend told me I had snake on my kitchen counter. I didn't believe her because she was laffing. So I called my landlord, it was the worse night of my life, watching throw Clorox on it and beating it to death! When they took that snake out it was about 4'long, it had been living in the house all that time. I am thinking the cat bought that snake in the house in the first place and he was fighting with it because he had the bite mark on his mouth the shape of a snakes head for the longest.
It is a very difficult question and glad you have pointed that out for all of us. God also gave man dominion over animals. My best understanding is that we go out of our way to protect and try to allow every living creature when we possibly can. Sometimes man cannot live in an immediate environment with dangerous living things........be they snakes, lions, wolves, etc.
Yep, I totally agree. I think the problem is that, as the human population grows, there's less & less room for the other critters. And yet, if you think about it, we really can't live without them.
Well--okay--I can live just fine without coral snakes and water moccasins and black widows. :)
My wife has a thing about things that lurk where the grandkids play. Eight foot, two inches, over 300 lbs.
About 9 years ago.
You bring up a very interesting question, Pattie. Back in the day, humans survived and thrived on the open plains of Africa, with nothing but wits and fire, surrounded by lions and rhinos and crocs and all types of poisonous critters. Humans survived in the woods and fields of America, surrounded by grizzlies and cougars and cottonmouths and rattlers and all manner of dangerous critters. Long before the gun, man adapted to the dangers of his immediate society. And thrived.
It's a real dilemma -- how to temper the very real danger posed by these animals with respect for letting them be what they are. I confess, I don't have the answer.
Carla
Your snake looks like one I found in my pond several years ago. He was just as scared of me as I was surprised by him. This year I have found 3 small snakes, one on the back porch and two in the house. Cat brought them in. I don't kill them they keep the mice and rats down. They are building a junior college just up the street so we will be getting all kinds of varmints in our yard. While this dry spell everything comes to my yard to drink from the pond.
I think maybe it's getting past the fear reaction "omigoshmustkillit". I did that with spiders. Now I can "escort" them gently to less bothersome areas, safely, gently ensconced in toilet paper. Not that I am advocating that with dangerous snakes or alligators, but there *is* always animal control. :)
-Joe
Joe,
Good luck escorting an eight foot gator.
Animal control here does not escort 8 foot gators. They are considered dangerous.
I think we just need to assume that each of us is making the best judgment at the time we can each make when faced with danger. What people did hundreds of years ago to survive is not really relevant to today's world in the United States. Some people in Africa today live in the best peace with wild animals as they have little choice.
I also noticed that it is easy for me to take on a cause in a big way when, in reality, I know very little about the actual situation.
I do know about spiders, etc. and always gently put them in a kleenex and escort them out of the house. Same with salamanders and other of God's creatures. I don't even believe in owning guns so this discussion isn't going anywhere.............none of us has the perfect answers.
I forgot to also mention that , once again, I think everyone is trying to do their best but there are always two sides to every story.
Next to our land is a 5000 acre wildlife refuge and only a creek separates the two. My brother accidentally left a gate open and some of his priceless deer jumped the fence to the wildlife refuge. Although his deer were clearly marked, the wildlife refuge owners felt no obligation to give back the 5 deer worth many tens of thousands of dollars.............so, it is true.......what is right and fair can be always seen from two sides. A year later I overheard at the cafe the owner of the refuge laughing about how they got more deer. They keep close track of all the wild life they have and know when new animals are there, especially when they have different tags on them.
You are correct. When danger is perceived it alters your thought pattern, especially if children are involved.
Back to Ohio threads. :) We only gots boring little lizards here 'n a few garter snakes. :)
Peace,
-Joe
Oh, Gessie, I don't think anyone was criticizing the decisions others make. I don't think anyone here willfully goes out killing critters for no reason. And I would never suggest that anyone should put themselves in danger.
But I DO think that, over the last 50 years, decisions have been made by society, rather casually, and not necessarily by individuals, that we have belatedly realized are harmful to life on planet Earth. And no, I'm not talking live-and-let-live with an 8-foot gator that shows up in someone's urban back yard. Let's be reasonable. But the toads and frogs are disappearing. The honeybees are disappearing. 30 years ago, my neighborhood was a rural area rich with wildlife. Then developers came in and razed everything, right down to hauling off the TOPSOIL (so that I can buy it back in bags from Home Depot). It's taken me 20 years just to rebuild a little topsoil and coax back EARTHWORMS. My latest thrill is that this year, for the first time, I actually have a colony of frogs living in my pond. And yet, that seems so strange. I grew up with frogs everywhere. But I've never seen any in this house until this year. When did they all disappear?
I hate snakes with a passion and wish they'd go someplace else. That's why I said this whole discussion is giving me the willies. But, the question is, WHERE do they have to go? 30 years ago, this is where they came. So where do they go now?
This message was edited May 24, 2008 2:46 AM
Ahhhh There is a message in there somewhere ~ Pbtxlady.
And it scares me because the one thing we are all dependant on, the most vital ingredient in life for man and wildlife is going the same way! Water...
When we first moved here about 11 years ago, it was a complete jungle. There was no place where you could see more than 6 feet. There were no birds, as we put out feeders with all the goodies, away from the house, but no takers at all. We only had snakes, big spiders and skeeters. We did selective clearing, leaving large clumps of jungle, and having grass and wildflowers meadows scattered all over. Slowly, rabbits, birds, raccoons, dillies and many other critters have showed up. We now have a hundred times more wildlife than when we arrived. There were simply too many snakes and large spiders on the place and other wildlife avoided the place. The spiders had covered the entire canopy with webs which stopped all the birds, as they could make flying impossible. We have about 11 acres, the North end being Dickinson Bayou. At any rate, removing the excess of Cottonmouths and allowing other vegetation to grow, we have a large, diversified population of birds and animals.
The key to life is always balance. Snakes and spiders in extreme moderation.
I love the wildlife I live with out here in the country. Every spring the jack rabbits have their babies under the house. With no dogs they stay forever it seems.
One of the guys on the farm called me one night about a month ago to tell me not to go outside my house as wild pigs (about 13) of them were passing by. I stood in the kitchen window and watched them head for the creek and that was exciting.
Most people hate skunks but we have lots of them and as long as they are passing through and not staying I like them fine.
Lou........is so right.........just balance........
Just another identifier. The picture I posted above showing the small tail section, when turned over the Cottonmouths have a very different pattern of markings. Not that this would help on a live one, but it could be useful later for positive ID.
