Chinese tallow propagation - do not shoot me!

Hello fellow propagators - if I can get something for free instead of paying big $ - I am a happy camper. I have been keeping up with this forum for a while - and learned so much!
Now to my quest:
First off - they are NOT invasive here. They are in many a beautifully maintained lawn here. They have gorgeous fall color. Neil Sperry calls them one of the few acceptable fast growing trees. I have 6 healthy 4 ' limb cuttings. What would be the best way to propagate them?
thanks!
Linda

I don't know who Neil Sperry is, but the Texas Department of Agriculture, Texas Cooperative Extension, the Texas Department of Transportation, the State Soil and Water Conservation Board, and the Texas Department of Parks and Wildlife agree it's invasive!

http://texinfo.library.unt.edu/texasregister/html/2007/jun-08/adopted/4.AGRICULTURE.html


http://www.texasinvasives.org/Invasives_Database/Results/Detail.asp?Symbol=TRSE6

Sounds like seed is the way to go with this tree.

And just because you see them in a lot of beautifully maintained yards doesn't mean they're not invasive, invasive has to do with what happens when they get out into wild areas. There are plenty of plants that will behave fine in a yard where seedlings are regularly pulled or mowed down, but when they get out into an uncultivated area they grow like crazy and crowd out natives.

Ok, you all convinced me of the error of my ways. It's just that we moved on an acre with nothing on it 2 years ago. I have done a lot but the lack of shade trees is hard. We have Cedar elm, Lacebark elm Post Oak that we bought young -like the $20.00 size at Lowes and HD. They are coming along but the lure of a really fast growing tree really appealed. I now don't know how to get rid of the cuttings - burn them I guess.

Linda

This message was edited Jul 2, 2011 9:47 AM

Linda, I think he was refering to the Chinese pistachio tree. He has a website. If you look it up, go to the frequently asked questions and then press the "trees" button. Here's the link http://www.neilsperry.com/maq/trees/

Hi Mygypsyrose
In his book Neil Sperrys' Complete Guide to Texas Gardening (second edition , completely revised and updated) - on page 100 he says the Chinese Tallowtree or Sapium Sebiferum is and I quote " One of the few highly acceptable fast growing trees" He also says it is one of the best trees for fall color in Central and South Texas.
So you can see where I got my idea and ended up with the cuttings - i trust Neal.
In Corpus Christi where I grew up, they were very prominent trees because of their ability to grow fast after hurricanes swept the landscape clean. I am going to look at that website to see if he mentions them therer. Thanks for the link.
Linda

In this question on his website he mentions that Chinese tallow (and several other fast growing trees) are typically short lived. So if you're looking for something to provide shade for a long time you might consider other options even if they grow a little slower. http://www.neilsperry.com/maq/trees/what-is-the-best-fastgrowing-shade-tree.html

Yes, I just finished reading that ecrane3. Looks like he's changed his tune a bit. I have several of the trees planted that he advises - so that's a good thing. Gardening is truly an every day learning experience.

Sorry, I thought maybe you might of been listening to the radio show and maybe mistook the name somehow. They sound alot alike. I was just trying to help you get that beautiful fall color. I know about wanting to get quick results too. I'm very bare here myself and am looking for new trees to plant myself. Hope you find a good solution :-) Have a beautiful day. Andrea

Hi Andrea,
I know you meant well, and I appreciate it. I hope you find something to fill in your bare spots too. In NJ there are probably no fast growing trees are there? For right now I am going to plant lots of the big castor beans..that will give shade this summer and time for the young trees to grow some more. I give them big drinks of manure tea, and that is helping a lot it seems - that and heavy mulching. Are you trying to propagate some trees? I know there are a lot of trees you can propagate - if you can just get cuttings.
Linda

Yeah, I've been planting like a madwoman for the last 3 years. Sooooo Slowwww. I just bought a book on propagating a few days ago. Waiting for it in the mail as we speak. I might have to break down and buy at least one tree with some size to it. Maybe at the end of the season when everything goes on sale. Thanks, Andrea

I've found some amazing prices on fairly large trees at a sale through my extension office each spring.... if yours doesn't actually do sales, they may know of another - a lot of times cities will give discounts on some trees that they would like to see planted around, stuff like that.

I will certainly look that up Pagancat, there are 2 cities linked together where I live - each with own their own city government. Plus we have the county and a university with a great horticulture department.

Andrea - I bought a propagating book and it was so deep and technical I closed it and here it sits. So I learned to use this amazing site and the discussion forums. Amongst different forums are true propating gems. Like I was in the brug forum and leaned of a way to use a bubbler from an aquarium and a bucket of water to propagate cuttings. In another I learned of a gel, and in the Hibiscus forum really tricky stuff with just toliet paper and water. Of course this forum is the ultimate for propagating. This winter I plan on propagating shrubs and trees - in a big way - like a madwoman as you say. lol We bought some fairly big Crepe Myrtles end of last season, there were 3 in each 10 bucket. We pulled them apart ( quite a feat as they were very pot bound) and in the end we had 6 trees - very cheap. And they have flourished!
Are you trying to propagate something exotic?

Never tried Tallows but did everything else. As far as invasive I do not think so. They will survive where no tree can but it is so hot here that shade is a welcome site. I grow tallows. I will try to propagate them. Try a short time in the bubbler until there are nubbies and then dust with rooting hormones and plant in well drained soil in the shade. They should grow.

I have tried a lot of invasive plants here and most just die. Had to see where Kurten was east of Huntsville. Growing conditions up there are a lot better than down on the coast. Seeing a few trees growing in a salt marsh made them try to eradicate them. All the birds and wildlife like a little shade also after all we all ready had heat factors in the upper 100s this year. LOL


JIM

THANKS Jim! What kind of rooting hormone do you use? My daughter bought some kind you mix with water, but it seems what is mentioned in these forums is a powder type. I have never used it, but I have only propagated own root roses.

I grew up to Corpus, so I know what you mean about the heat - and the trees I remember were tallows because no other trees survived the hurricane winds. Aransas Pass was a sleepy fishing town back then :)

Kurten is just 10 minutes from Bryan/College Station. It is nice because it is in the country yet you are really close to town as well. Kurten for certain! - is what we like to say.

Linda

So funny. I saw the city of Port A spend 2,000 because they found a tree of heaven and had to dig it out. Now that spot is barren. Put a bounty on them tallows and they will disappear real fast. It must be the debil bobby. The Tallow pictures are pretty. An apache helicopter and a 50 caliber should work and be entertaining also. They must die. LOL

Rootone works for me. I also grew some Banyans from cuttings. Now in Florida they are invasive but not here.(go figure) The only thing invasive here is grass burrs and Incarnata passion vines and maybe Johnson grass.


Jim

Linda.. you won't believe this but I was looking for the very same thing!! I love the tallow trees. I know they can be invasive, and just down the road they are in the fields etc, but none on our 22 acreas!! Sooo my friend brought me one, but she passed away about 5 years ago. I could go dig one up, but I want babies off the tree my friend gave me. I am very sentimental..lol

jpotts... I'll take the tallows any day over the grass burs and johnson grass... I have that too!!

pagancat... thanks for the tip about the extention office. I didn't know that some do sales. I'll have to check mine out.

Rosysunset... I got the book by the American Horticulteral Society on propagation. It is awesome. everything I ever wanted to know and more is in there. It explains everything. It even goes into how each plant should be propagated and when and what kind of cuttings are best. Also grafting, scaling, I just can't say enough. It was a hard cover for 23.00. Well worth the price. It has a whole section on trees too. Someone on DG recomended it and I looked it up and it had such good reviews, I bought it. I'm glad I did. If that's not the book you got. You might want to give this one a try. http://www.amazon.com/American-Horticultural-Society-Propagation-Plant/dp/0789441160/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1212208782&sr=1-8 Andrea

edit to say: I didn't know how to take a basel cutting. I told me exactly how to and what was the right way and wrong way. Thats how specific it got for the beginner as well as more advanced stuff also.

This message was edited May 31, 2008 12:46 AM

Sounds like an excellent buy!

At least they grow... I've killed so many things since moving here in 1991. Actually, it wasn't me, it's just so difficult with our droughts and floods. I had one come up in my yard, and I was ecstatic. Anything for shade, and these are so pretty.

Lilliesan, what I ended up doing was sticking with native trees only. Native trees have weathered it all. Here is a link to help you find whats good for your area http://texastreeplanting.tamu.edu/ExpressSelector.aspx.
Poor thing, you sound like a transplant from a kinder, gentler weather clime than Texas. There are trees and plants that love it here though. The Texas Super Stars http://www.texassuperstar.com/ list the best. I will gladly share seeds and cuttings with you to get you started.

Andrea - Sorry for taking so long to get back - been gardening like crazy! Thanks for the book title, it looks wonderful - and I am ordering it. Nothing gardening wise thrills me quite like seeing that new leaf on something I have propagated,

Jim - I wish Banyans grew here.

Rosysunset, sorry I've been so long replying. I stopped at Milbergers the other day and Monterrey oak was recommended. What are your thoughts on that one? Other than that, the lacey oak and chinkapin oak are looking good. But for quicker shade while those are growing, what would you suggest? I'm just about desperate enough for a chinaberry tree right now. Especially as I've turned off the a/c for good.

run , don't walk to the nearest burn pile . had to have one , got it , ,planted it , first time it bloomed , loved it . next year , had hundreds of babies all over yard and in woods . run , don't walk to nearest burn pile . sally

Lilliesan, I am in zone 8b and the trees I have had the best success with are Cedar Elms, LaceBark Elms and Crepe Myrtles. I have not grown Monterrey Oak because it has not been for sale here that I have seen. The Chinapin Oak is very slow growing for us. Quick shade is tough in Texas. Castor beans in a good wet year are a wonder - but they are annuals. Japanese Ligustrum is fast growing and can be trained tree like and then cut down when the big trees are able to shade. Maybe some others know of other fast shade plants. How can you turn off the a/c in August? Yikes!