Every year I get people who come to my place and ask how do I grow my plants so large and so fast. They also seem very shocked to find out that a lot of them survive all winter. So forget getting a greenhouse and forget the way you use to garden.
Lets begin with some of the most common misunderstandings for tropical gardening.
First off their are always people who tell me (You can't). The most common garden quote form these people are ( You can't grow that here!). This quote is common sense I am in the south. I find that these people are very set in their thinking, that sense they have not seen it growing around before or if it's written in a book for a certain zone that it cannot be possible to grow here. Yet every year here I am growing these plants in the ground and proving them wrong. Growing and over wintering tropical plants in a northern climate is fairly new to people and to some it is still hard to believe. Though many of these plants can not only survive but flourish year after year. So here is the best ways to go about gardening the way I do.
You need to first pick out a good sunny spot in the yard. It needs to be a good spot for a tropical display were it will get seen and enjoyed, wind protected areas also help. So once you get your area picked out and you have it squared off. I usually tell people to make sure you have this area in a spot were you can expand. I find year after year my beds and landscape areas expand and it's best to have the space to keep them moving.
This next step is very important. Most people run out after the first step and dig holes and throw plants into the ground. This can work, but here we are looking for the best. The best thing to do is get a few large loads of compost and manure. Don't mix it with your soil just add it to the top. In most cases 1 to 2 feet deep of compost is what I use on my new beds. The idea here is the bed is rich organically it also holds a ton of water for the hot summer months. It also produces heat from breaking down and rotting of the organic material which helps root system in early spring and also helps over winter the plants. From this moment on no longer look at your landscape area as a regular garden bed but as a ever expanding compost pile. For the most part your plants should be growing in a compost pile bed. This is the key to great plants that return year after year. I find that growing plants in this way can increase the hardiness of the plants by two to three zones. Meaning if a plant is planted in this bed and mulched for protection I can get some zone 8 plants to survive my zone 6 winters.
Now that the bed is done. I would suggest finding the right plants. With this type of bed your looking to grow more water loving plants such as Bananas cannas and Colocasias. Their are a lot that will survive and the better you protect them each year the larger number of variety you can grow out. I find it hard to believe some people spend a small fortune on greenhouses to over winter the very same plants that can survive in the ground if they just changed their garden areas to fit the plants it would be much easier on them physically and financially. The biggest complaint that I hear is that it is to hard to mulch and cover the plants in fall. Yet these are the same people who work on their huge compost piles and heat their greenhouses and water their greenhouses all winter. I could list the plants that survive for me but the list is extremely large and many of them are well known. Some that I think raises some eyebrows are the fact that I can over winter the following here all winter. Alocasia Macrorrhiza , Alocasia Macrorrhiza variegata, Crinum lilies, Brugmansias and many others as the list goes on and on. Their are enough plants to produce a very tropical feel to the garden. The key to getting the extremely tender plants to over winter is the amount of protection I am willing to put on the plant for winter.
I suggest growing the plants in large clumped sections which gives a better feel than a cluttered mixed area. I also suggest planting the plants in a stadium like effect with largest plants in the back working your way down to the ground covers. I personally do not plant in large clumps. This is mainly due to my garden is used for breeding and the more I can get into a small area the more I have to work with. So the visual effect is somewhat important to me the breeding aspect of it take higher priority.
The downside to this type of landscaping is the fact that is can look rather bad in the winter months. If your like me I don't get out much or do any gardening in winter and I don't mind the eye sore as much. If this does bother you planting some ever greens in the back drop can help ease the effect.
In spring I go out rake the leaves and spread them out to a even layer the gas powered blower helps out a lot with this. The leaves will get wet and produce a mat like effect over the soil. This is great for helping to keep weeds at bay and it also holds the moisture in. By this time plants are starting to pop up form under the leaves and a nice spray of preen can help keep other weeds from sprouting. Once this is done a light layer of hardwood mulch is applied to give it a clean good look. The mulch also breaks down year after year.
The rest is watering and fertilizing and watching the plants grow.
This may not be new to everyone but this type of landscaping is the best I have found for producing the tropical effect I have grown to love. I would suggest not letting your cold winters hold you back or the lack of funds. This is easy fun and less expensive than most landscape project.
The following photos will show you pics of my place at the end of summer and photos of the place in winter. Good growing.
Northerners! Change the way you think and garden!!!!
This is the same area shown in the picture above. In this photo I am actually taking the photo were Sarah is standing above. As you can see the bed is much like a giant compost pile of leaves some are piled taller on the bananas and larger plants. I find that 4 to 6 inches on the cannas and Colocasias is about right plants like basjoo banana and others do a bit better if you can have a few feet of trunk ready by spring so covering them a bit higher helps me get a head start on them every season. If you don't have that many leaves laying around in fall. It seems they are easy to find. Not to mention may places that collect leaves from peoples yards are always looking for places to dump their loads. This mix of leaves and chopped up grass makes for a great compost that heats up all winter long. In the dead of winter I can go out and dig in one of these piles to have steam pour out. Also I should add that in most cases these plants out grow the ones in the greenhouse sense they already have started producing new root systems early and usually their sizes are larger as well. Once the air temperatures get warm the plants shoot out at a surprising rate. In some cases so fast I get people who swear that I had to have planted them out for summer which is not the case.
Well I hope this helps change peoples thinking on how and where tropical plants grow. It is possible and it does work. The price to me is well worth the effect I get every year. A bit of hard work in the fall months and a little raking in spring. I find it is less work than the other garden areas I clean and fix, but with a lot more show.
Thank you for this thread! Can I ask you a couple of questions?
What is the lowest temp you usually get during the winter? How long do those temps last? A week at a time? A Month?
Do you think having ice would impact your method much? We have been known to get over an inch of ice here.
Does it snow much for you? If so how long does it usually last?
How old and what kind is the compost?
I would really like to keep these types of plants going and I am willing to do the work. Just looking for a some guidance. :^)
We average at 0 to -10f we have not had extremely cold temps in the last 7 to 8 years on average these last few years it has been 0 to 5f and usually for 3 to 7 day periods. We can go for weeks and at times months with out temps getting above freezing. The ice and snow will show no problem for this type of protection. We usually get ice each year and we usually have snow for around 1 month if not longer on the ground each winter.
The compost is new each year from fall leaves gathered. I recommend adding grass clippings to help it break down faster. The leaves will need nitrogen to help them breaking down. I also add coffee grounds which seem to spread up the process. The breaking down of the compost can produce temps up to 120f this is what is keeping your plants from freezing. In winter you can dig into the compost and find the first 1 to 3 inches of compost will be frozen making a shell over the plant. Inside you will find the temps are very warm. The fact that the compost is spread over the entire bed keeps the soil from freezing rather than just piles on each plant. This way the cold can not come in from the sides. Also the compost from years past are also decaying under and around the plants. If you are still worried, adding a black tarp or any black cheep material can cause a thawing effect, each day when the sun is out. Rather than your cold temps slowly freezing more and more area with each day. The sun heats up the dark tarp over the plant and thaws it out. Each night it will refreeze but not as deeply penetrating.
Wow! I could actually do this!! We do get temps below zero here but like you they usually only last a few days. During the winter it pretty much stays below freezing and we often have ice and snow cover during most of the winter months. I will definately try this with the compost and black landscape fabric. I think if plastic were used it would keep moisture from reaching the plants. That is how we kill off unwanted weeds and such before planting a new bed here. Of course that means I have to start now as I have always avoided the tropicals because of lack of room to overwinter.
Just what I needed ----- another reason to haunt the local nurseries ------- you are such an enabler! I bet you do not even feel guilty about it do you? HeeHee
Thank you for sharing this. I find it should be useful information even to southern gardeners. A couple of questions please.
Do you not shred the leaves to aid decomposing?
Our soil is a hard packed clay ~ should the soil be loosened to allow the roots to grow into it?
Brian, I also have a couple of questions:
what is your soil like? (it's been forever since I visited Louisville)
what zone are you in?
do you leave those ensetes out?
podster,
I'm not trying to answer for Brian, but I shred my leaves.
and on the clay, we have compact hard red clay here. I spend lots of time amending and topdressing, and for a lot of plants when I dig I add as much compost, etc to the hole as possible and line it with newspaper to bring the worms in. A lot of plants have died on me or not grown well due to the lack of drainage in the soil, and many exotics don't appreciate winter wetness at all...so raised beds and lots of amending are an absolute must if you have hard clay and want to grow hardy exotics
The soil here is not bad it is not red clay but a brown type clay soil. I no longer use it in any of the beds the beds are now built on top of it. At times the plant can grow down to this area but just the roots. Raising the bed does help with drainage and each year the beds seem fluffy and airy to walk on and after a years time they break down a bit get a little lower.
The shredded leaves are much better for breaking down during winter. I used both shreded and unshreded leaves this past year just to just how many I was given. The leaves alone will work but adding grass clippings and coffee grounds are what it is going to take for them piles to get really hot.
I am in a zone 6
As for the ensetes I left out 6 of them this year. I am not sure if they survived yet or not. I could have protected them better. The main worry with them is once they are chopped back they are prone to rot.
This is a great thread. I also have a few questions. While we certainly have our fair share of leaves, would something like hay also work for insulating purposes? I used it this past winter and it seemed to work on the banana quite well. How would a extra layer of wood chips on top of the hay work all winter? Since I live in a neighborhood with a review board, we have to keep the yard looking "decent" all year. I think we could also get away with using grass cuttings, but leaves may be a harder sell in the front yard.
We also have sandy soil here, not sure if that has any effect either way. I really enjoyed your suggestions and will start using them as we prepare the new tropical beds behind the house.
Thanks Brian.
This message was edited Mar 30, 2008 11:49 AM
Hay and pine straw are useful but not as the main ingredient in the compost a mix of green and crispy brown vegetation is best. You will know its working if their is heat in the center of the piles. This is the micro nutrients breaking the compost down. If you use just hay you will have a very airy pile which will provide some good insulation but it is not breaking down and therefore is not producing the extra heat. Adding the leaves of the plants grown out from that year can help don't throw them away shred them and use them in the pile. The sandy soil can be useful and mixed in to help keep your tropical soil coarse and well drained no more than 20 to 30 percent of the mix should be sand to keep the soil highly organic.
Thanks Brian, I keep a pile of old leaves in the back yard, and can use those. For appearances sake we'll just cover it with wood chips as suggested once we apply the leaves. That should make the front bed looks more than fine. Thanks again; I've learned a lot about tropicals (especially EE's from your posts).
Thanks for the great thread Brian! I noticed here http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=4727750 You have some gorgeous Brugmansias growing, I'm guessing they stay in the ground with the same winter protection like your other tropicals?? Is there certain varieties that overwinter better then others?
Thanks again for this great thread, I'm going to mark it on my favorites so I always have it for reference!
Steven
I have been able to over winter brugmansias for the past 4 years with a good mulching on top. They die down to the ground and return each year getting around 6 feet tall or more. They don't bloom till the end of summer. I take in my larger brugmansias into the greenhouse to keep the size and trunks which I like. I would not suggest over wintering variegated or weak growing forms. It seems the more weedy or fast growing the better.
Thanks Brian! All your info is invalueable!
First photo is wonderful and nice collection of Coleus and Caladium. What is in bucket/pot behind this beautiful lady?
Kaleem
i'm guessing that this could work in the warmer areas too if we want to grow some really tropical stuff, right??
Brian, --that is a great thread, -- I live in Florida but use a lot of the things you suggest, --well done. -- Michael Porter
I am glad to hear everyone has found some useful information from the thread. I hear the questions far to much in the summer and I seemed to have explained it many times. The plant beside of Sarah in the pot is a variegated Crinum lily. I have a few and it never got set out.
In warmer areas I would feel this would work were you need to protect the tubers bulbs or Rhizomes. It will not protect foliage or leaf damage from frost. I find that plants that resist rot well are usually good canidates for testing. If rot prone they usually cannot handle the long winters. Though I have had good luck with Amorphophallus species.
I grew up and lived in zone 9 until I moved to zone 6 in New Mexico back in the late 70's. What I found was that i could not grow any tropicals successfully. Our winter flowers in zone 9 were my summer flowers in zone 6. Geraniums and cool weather annuals did great but not tropicals. We also had about 15 % humidity in zone 6 where I have in zone 9 again about 90% most of the time.
Even here my plumerias take until the end of July to come back from our few light freezes and bloom.
So, I am not saying you can't if you say you can, but I could not and tried so hard to have tropicals as that was what I was used to. The best part of zone 6 though, to me, was growing the gorgeous perennials that I couldn't and can't grow here. Poppies were one of my favorite perennials. Plus I loved that I could plant all kinds of bulbs and I thought I was in Holland! (LOL)
I am curious if I could winter over stuff here
I'm always pushing the zones.....
but chicken out in the fall,dig,and throw stuff in the GH
I have a nana in the GH right now with nanas on it
we get tons of lake effect snow,(sometimes 3-7 feet in a few days)
it does get to -25...sometimes -30
I do have an area ,over the leach feild that never freezes
but its very wet all winter long
any suggestions.....besides move south?
YOu are too funny! I can't imagine -25 .......not even close to being able to realize how cold that is. When it gets below 55 here I grab my jacket!
Wow, I almost can't imagine grabbing a jacket at 55 Gessie :) It's just getting above freezing here lately and things are starting to thaw. I guess it's whatever you're used to...
It is our humidity that makes it so cold when it is 35 to 50 degrees. When I lived in zone 6 where there was no humidity I thought nothing of just a sweater when there was 6 feet of snow on the ground. It just wasn't that cold with low humidity and sunshine. I think we got a lot more sun in zone 6 than we do down here. (except for summer sun intensity from May until December in south Texas)
Ya, cooler temps with humidity really goes straight through your bones. We get that sometimes here and it's horrible, I couldn't imagine having that all the time....I get cold just thinking about it!
you grad a jacket at 55? psh, i would be looking like that kid in a christmas story with the snowsuit by then! i'm cold in the 60's
This message was edited Mar 31, 2008 5:43 PM
-25 and -30 are some extreme cold temps. You should be able to over winter zone 7a and 6 type plants. Testing the plants is best try a few areas or situations for the plants. Don't put all your eggs in one frozen basket. I would recommend trying Musa basjoo and Colocasia pink china both are very tropical looking and both have shown to be very tough. Also Colocasia black pearl has shown to be much tougher than most possibly as good or better than pink china.
thanks ,I will try that
and as for the cold
It got up to 47 the other day and I saw people in shorts.......
Crestedchik, lucky you! we haven't had anything much above 39 yet...it's been unseasonably cold :|
We are suppose to hit 60 something tomorrow I think...for a day
back to the low 40s after that
But I know shorts and T shirst will be all over.....
and it rained today....its better than snow.......
It's raining here today to and when I stuck my head out the backdoor it felt not bad outside, it's supposed to get up to 55 this week so lets hope the cold is almost behind us!
I planted a musa basjoo in zone 5b two years ago - here's my experience so far.
We generally have snow cover from mid-December through to mid-March. It is not unusual for us to have extended periods (5 or more days) of daytime highs in the -13 to -20 degrees fahrenheit range. Our average first frost date is mid-October and last spring frost is mid-May. That's only a 5 month growing season - not nearly long enough for many tropicals to grow back from their roots and reach flowering size, when you consider that the good really warm weather is usually only with us through July and August.
In the fall I cut the musa basjoo back to about a foot, covered it with a good thick layer of mulch and leaves, covered that with a length of Big 'O' drainage pipe (about 16" diameter) and filled that with leaves too, but...I forgot to cover the whole thing with plastic.
When I uncovered it in the spring I of course found that the main stalk had completely died back. Even worse, there didn't appear to be any life left in the root at all. I left it though, just in case, and a month or so later an offshoot sprouted for me. This little guy never got more than about two feet high, but then again we had an unusually cool growing season last year.
We finally got the heat I'd been dreaming of in the fall, but then we never got any of the gradual cooling we would normally expect. We went right from hot and sunny one day to snow cover and freezing cold when I got up the next day. I never got the poor little guy covered so I'm sure he's a goner this year :-(
If you would like me to keep you updated on what happens just dmail me, or I can respond to this thread.
I always complain about living in a zone 8 where we rarely hit 15F. But after seeing how many of you hit the below zero mark, some by a great margin... I guess I've learned my lesson, LOL. I suppose I should feel fortunate to be able to grow tropicals for as long as I can (usually just 4-5 months are needed out of the cold).
LOL Don't feel bad. We up here in the "frozen north" consider everyone from about mid-Ohio on down to be southern gardeners - and I'm in one of the more southerly northern locations :-)
Hibiscus tend to be a bit slow to get going again in the spring, so you may have to be patient with it. Honestly if you want to enjoy a lot of blooms from the hibiscus, you're probably better off digging it up and overwintering it somewhere warm. Even if it does survive, by the time it wakes up and puts out new growth and is ready to bloom, you won't get to enjoy the blooms for very long before it gets cold again. I've been so much happier with my hibiscus since I got my greenhouse--before that they rarely died on me because my climate's not that bad for them, but if it got cold enough that they dropped their leaves, then they were very slow to get going in the spring. But now with the greenhouse I can enjoy blooms pretty much year-round from them.
Wow! What type of palm is that?
its some type of trachycarpus/ hayes stiffie i believe how ever I seem to be a little memory inpaired these day's this plant did come from briansbotanical.net so maby brian could be more help
