Looking for Ron

Hi there,
since I have been reading in this forum I have read your name repeatedly with great information and MG pictures to die for.

Do you have a book out on MG's or planning to write one by any chance ?
Thank you,
Brigitte

good idea Brigitte. Ron Rocks. I asked him the same thing. No books (yet) hardly anywhere. It's a relatively new art form in this country. There was one on amazon he had heard of but said, not good, but he says all the best, most recent info is basically here and it's always evolving. His posts are extremely detailed and thorough. He's a mad scientist.

I'm off to check out your links.

Glad you are interested in what I share...

There are no plans at this point to write any coffee table books (despite numerous repeated requests to do so),but maybe I'll change my mind at some point...
The forums devoted to MG's are constantly in motion and are as previously mentioned are 'alive' (!) and therefore constantly evolving...
Books are becoming somewhat 'obviated' because by the time a book is printed the Information is already available on the web and has likely evolved further than what is available in the book format...

I still find that reading from a nice book is much easier on the eyes though and the sensation of 'brain being fried' by the radiation shooting directly into your brain via the optic nerve is definitely much lower, more comfortable and healthier...

The many photos that I have added to the PlantFiles are often taken by and still actually owned by other members who helped me to grow out particularly rare species...
I may often request particular views/angles that best show the important structural identification features and/or select the photos that I like best from a much larger series,then post them into the PlantFiles along with my descriptive commentary,while the actual copyright mark is still imprinted on the photos by the photographer(s) who grew out the plants...

There is more to be gained by working together as a community towards goals that benefit the entire community...especially the long-term goals which are(in the long run) much more important than short term 'goals'...
Selfishness is an old outdated program that worked well during the StoneAge,but is counter-productive to a society where the sum of the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts...

Long term community oriented goals may appear to be 'selfish' to the shortsighted vision motivated by ulterior monetary thinking...my methodology is sometimes subject to 'criticism' by 'vision' that insists on stressing only the pecuniary value to experienced learning...my strong preference is for the "hands on experience" style based learning that I prefer to share with others...

There have been posts questioning the long term rationale of the structure of some of my growouts and these were in fact directly answered by members directly involved with multiplication growouts of extremely rare species that are available nowhere else and exist in perilously small amounts...
e.g., contained in the posts here
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=3806554
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=3806718
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=3806848

I have not chosen to emphasize the considerable amounts of my limited personal funds on basic gardening equipment including expenditures(over many years) on all manner of experimental equipment...the absolutely tremendous amount of time (e.g., many years of reading botany journals at the Agricultural Libraries way before the advent of the computer age) and money that it has cost me to learn how to correctly identify,locate and acquire seeds of species that no one else on the gardening sites has at all to offer in any amount for love or money...
I am making certain that I have first(!) multiplied enough seeds to be distributed for trade and/or for free before they are offered by anyone for sale on ebay or elsewhere...


Japan and ebay are both chockfull of Ipomoea nil,Ipomoea purpurea and a plethora of crosses of these two species...but the truly rare species are not to be found even in the deepest crevices of Japan and/or on ebay for any amount of money and/or for trade ...and that is why the growouts of the extremely rare species that I sometimes offer as part of some of my growouts contain as a vitally important aspect certain very carefully considered rational restrictions that I believe to be essential to long-term multiplication of the species involved...flagrant disregard or disdain for the agreement would result in my complete disinterest in attempting to share the distilled 'gold' of many years of difficult and focused searching with such entities again...as this would result ultimately in an irresponsible wastage of rare species...

There is a need for serious commitment and increased horticultural competency regarding growouts of extremely rare species that those without a monetary interest have absolutely no difficulty understanding or complying with...

The forum on the advisability of a Hybridizers forum to which I contributed
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/814573/#post_4612647
provides some valuable insight into the outer workings of the inner mind...no special observation skills required to ascertain for yourself the suppression and diversionary forces 'at play'...repeating patterns,including 'artifice' are obvious...
Here the staff is clearly concerned about self-promotion...and where the concept of self promotion is apparently particularly difficult for some who require repeated clarification/redirection from at least several different members until some 'acquiescence' is achieved...


The danger to the wellbeing of the community by allowing monetary values to predominate the experience of learning/gardening was previously warned of in the thread on discussing the desirability of a Daves auction site in the post here
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=4503357
The above post by another member illustrates the astute perception that a thought process that is dominated by a strong actual or 'wannabe' mercantile mentality can become 'corrupted' and will henceforth never be willing to understand what a non-monetary minded process is trying to achieve...no matter how many times it is explained or in whatever multitude of different ways...as longterm(!) goals are not always immediately apparent...therefore those who strive for (in most cases) hopeful and ultimate pecuniary profits who may potentially be in opposition to my style of sharing/teaching/progress truly have no choice, but to undermine the integrity of the process by trying to poke holes in it...
My position as clearly stated in this response
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=4510731

I want to assure one and all that I will continue to work on my love in life (here and/or elsewhere) despite any ostensibly 'well intentioned' 'critiques'...

You said you were looking for Ron and I responded by providing some insight into my way of thinking and getting things done...


Thanks for your appreciation of Art for Art's sake...

TTY,...

Ron

P.S. -

"What's that"

"It's an artichoke"

"Well,it might have choked Arty,but it sure ain't gonna choke Stymie"

wow. I wanna be in the grow out club! ~ holy cow. ~ is there an initiation? I really don't know very much but I know after searching for months, there is hardly anywhere to get the more unusual flowers other than ebay. I would need to know just what to do and I would definitely take pictures.(!!!) If you or Beth would need DGers to participate in grow outs, and would trust a new grower, I would be very interested and excited to be involved but I don't have much to offer in return.... Thanks for the post. Your JMG Art for Art's sake philosophy argument is a compelling epilogue to an article i read yesterday from today's NYT,

Exporting Japan's Way Of Tea:

"Sen Rikyu, a great tea master from the late 16th Century is said to have grown gorgeous Morning Glories at the time a rare flower in japan, in the garden by his tea house. Toyotomi Hideyoshi, a ruthless ruler who had made Kyoto his capitol, sought an invitation to tea so that he could see the flowers.

Rikyu demurred but Hideyoshi persisted until he received his invitiation. Arriving at the garden Hideyoshi saw not a single morning glory. They had all been removed. Enraged, Hideyoshi stormed into the tea house, the worst manners for a guest at tea.

Once inside though, Hideyoshi's anger gave way to calm delight. For there, in the alcove of the tea house was a single morning glory, the most perfect of it's kind."


****** talk about not selling out.

Soulja,

Yes, a cup of hot tea and morning glories will soothe the soul. Karen

Soulja, Hideyoshi's enraged approach to a place reserved for ceremony and the discipline, peace and stillness that that implies, makes the significance of the ceremony all the more powerful when you contemplate the vast host of different mental/emotional attitudes that have ever tried to find that destination, one way or another.

Ron, if you only write a book about the path upon which a love of morning glories has taken you, that would be timeless - let the morning glories provide the scenery and the teapot the tempest - lol

Hello Ron,
thank you so very much for your long reply to a MG newbie.There is definately alot to learn and absorb.

Even though you're not planning a book I admire your diligence to continue with something you seem to love so much.Your knowledge you share is priceless but if you ever should reconsider writing a book I am one of the first ones to buy one :-)

I am from the old school and absolutely find it a pleasure to read books when I find the time.
Maybe it goes back to early childhood when I went to the library by myself,climbing steep steps in a ancient building near a monastery and castle in Germany.
Never forget how proud I was holding up my little library card :-)

Thank you again for your reply
Brigitte

Now Ron,
Without our sales from Ebay or other sources, many of us would not be able to afford the truckloads of potting soil, countless large pots, trellis, etc need to grow and experiment with these rare lovelies. I work 50-60hrs a week and am putting a kid through college so please don't belittle the pittance I get from selling a few plants or seeds now and then that help defray my garden addiction. For some people it is a business like any other business and there is nothing wrong with that. I have no problem buying a plant whether it's from ebay, daves auction or home depot. I'm sure you didn't get all your seeds free so you obviously supported someone somewhere.

I think Ron was mostly referring to seeds of plants in danger of becoming extinct should they become targetted by unscrupulous market forces. Those are the ones he is trying to multiply through his grow-outs for ultimate dissemination into the gardening community.

Otherwise, I don't see any conflict between buying and selling seeds outside the type of seeds referred to above and supporting one's gardening habit.

Remember the "market ladies" in Elizabeth Lawrence's book, Gardening for Love The Market Bulletins? Everyone was enriched on so many levels through those by-gone farmers' markets - marketting of seeds and plants led to friendships that led to new perspectives and insights from far-away places.

Where would Socrates have been without the market place? Yup, I believe philosophers, mad scientists and market ladies all share the same propensities and together create the necessary synergy with which to nurture that state of mind in which knowledge can be pursued for the sake of knowledge, etc.

There's not only room for both the material and non-material, but in a balanced, flexible, caring world, they can be mutually supportive. I wish.

old Rikyu's esoteric approach to Morning Glories was pure enough. I believe he knew a single one is all the warrior deserved or could appreciate. I don't know how he could have torn down all his glorious vines... I doubt they would end up on Ebay. {; - D

I wonder if anyone has experience with some recent auctions there. I see some crazy breeds of ribboned tie dye madness go up on the block and wonder if they can be real, they're so striking.

but i don't feel too bad with this freshman gang. (from ebay & anywhere else...

these are from today. just had to had to. (so excited....

Soullja - Beautiful blooms! Are those yours or from ebay?

Ron and Karen (bluespiral) - Thank you for sharing your thoughtful and passionate perspective!

budgielover - Thank you for expressing your perspective too!

I prefer to do seed trading, though on rare ocassions I do purchase seeds. I enjoy trading so much more! I think because it brings a sense of community to my garden. I can look at plants that are growing and blooming and remember the kind person who so generously shared with me. That means far more to me than remembering that I bought them off a shelf or purchased them from some place or someone unknown.

Awwww ... in a perfect world ...

This message was edited Mar 21, 2008 10:49 AM

mostly ebay & onalees. Thanks Becky! I posted a request to you on another thread hoping for seeds you were sharing. I love the plum shadows and yaguruma blizzard or if there are any other dramatic ones available (not on ebay) you'd be so kind as to share, I'll gladly pay for them!

Soulja - I don't sell my seeds (postage only) and I must have missed your post. (Best to dmail me your request.) If I have seeds to share, I certainly will! :-)

on the way!

no wait, those are MINE!!! i just reread the question and am proud to say I took the first set of photos from blooms of MINE (from seeds from ebay & onalees) yesterday and the next set today! I am just tickled! It's so exciting to see who wakes up every morning. wow.

Congrats! They ARE beautiful!!!

This message was edited Mar 21, 2008 1:08 PM

Budgie, hope I didn't sound to oppositional to you - I have always loved your posts and was glad to see you chiming in here.

To anyone who enjoyed Renyu's parable about Hideyoshi, here are 300 Tang Poems, free and online - http://etext.virginia.edu/chinese/frame.htm. Soulja, this is made available by the University of Virginia (at the bottom of the webpage). This Renyu really intrigues me - if you see anything in there or elsewhere either about him or similar philosophers, would you let us know?

Soulja, those pics are unearthly - thank you.

i swear i did not pump them up very much other than to sharpen the focus.

thank you all. I did just dmail Becky with the observation that this group seems unique in terms of respect for the history of this aspect of the Japanese culture of which in general i am very familiar, and you approach the art form very much in the zen tradition of purity, simplicity, experimentation, generosity and learning esoterically. It's a lovely thing.

Over the months, all your photos of individual flowers, like so many faces, have inspired me as much as Hideyoshi was calmed and delighted by Rikyu's solitary perfect Morning Glory.

I'm off to check the links ~

Nope no problem.

Ron, I love that quote from the Our Gang film series. I think of it everytime I see an artichoke in the store.

Joseph

Everyone Thanks for sharing your thoughts and contributions...

Jan - When you can find the time at some point please read this section(re-posted here in abbreviated form) and relevant clarifying posts in their entirety where I made definitive reference to reading the relevant posts (when you realistically have the time) because this is crucial to the comprehensive presentation...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The danger to the wellbeing of the community by allowing monetary values to predominate the experience of learning/gardening was previously warned of in the thread on discussing the desirability of a Daves auction site in the post here
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=4503357
The above post by another member illustrates the astute perception that a thought process that is dominated by a strong actual or 'wannabe' mercantile mentality can become 'corrupted' and will henceforth never be willing to understand what a non-monetary minded process is trying to achieve..as longterm(!) goals are not always immediately apparent...
My position as clearly stated in this response
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=4510731


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unless you are a speed reader,all of the areas addressed related to the subject matter contained in my initial reply are not something that would be properly/accurately apprehended by anybody in an early morning rush to get out the door...
not all posts are constructed for (nor relevant for) early morning easy reading and some posts are necessarily designed for careful consideration of the subject matter involved...
attempting to immediately ascertain the full/accurate implications (when anyone is in a hurry to get out the door in the morning) is more than likely going to result in jumping to premature conclusions.....
analogous to posts that delve deeper into a specific subject mater e.g., the science of germination,nutrient chemistry,flower induction or other topics( et cetera) when due time for proper in depth considerations are in order...

One of the main advisories is echoed by the other member who foresaw monetary motives as potentially becoming one of (if not) the primary driving motives that can cause the enjoyment of growing plants per se to become easily/potentially overshadowed by $ interests...
so,making a few bucks on certain plant products is fine,it is when all (or most) of the growing is experienced only (or mostly) in terms of the $ generated,is when the experience and enjoyment of growing/learning becomes degraded by the $ factor...

Jan,you had notified me well in advance regarding your interest in offering a certain strain on ebay and if I had any problems with your interest in offering the particular species you notified me about I would have voiced them at that time...

Thanks for your contributions to the Art and Science...

TTY,...

Ron

P.S. - For Eveyone's General Reference

There are growouts where EASY is the predominate factor,usually involving species and seeds that exist in large enough numbers to be easily expendable without much of a care, and complete loss of a crop due to any factor is of no serious consequence...there are many reasons why these seeds have been and still are readily available from many different sources...and this type of growout is extremely helpful to and most appropriately suited for,(but not limited to) newbies...

There are different types of growouts where the predominate factors regarding the multiplication of extremely rare species requires a definitive sense of commitment and serious understanding of responsibilities involved...not best suited to (but neither exclusive of) newbies,especially unsuitable if approached in a carefree or careless manner, where unwillingness or inability to appreciate responsibilities involved (or any other disrespectful perspective) would necessarily exclude responsible participation......



This message was edited Mar 22, 2008 5:42 AM

certainly I would never overestimate my experience with these as outlined in my post:

Oh Boy! My First Morning Glories! *wink

However, I would like to not have to rush out the door in the morning, first, because the flowers are blooming, and second, I'd love to read and absorb as much as I can so I can participate. Sounds like important business here, but also sounds like fun to me!

I'm off to hit the books!
Here's one from today.

I like the backlighting of the flower, it accentuates the colors of the flower!

Joseph