HI , I panted seeds in a bio dome for the first time and most are doing great and ready for the outdoors but.....a certain group of seedings have long thin stems and willl not make it outside. How can I thicken them up?
I read somewhere on this board that someone plants them up to the leaves.
I'll do much better next year but want to fix my sicky looking plants.
You can plant them deep when you transplant...but in the meantime I'd get them under some lights, most likely the reason they've gotten leggy is that they're not getting enough light. The lights need to be no more than a couple inches above the top of the seedlings, otherwise it doesn't do much good.
They're reeeeeaching for that window. The poor things are light starved.
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...now I feel sorry for them. They have a light on them now.
Here's an article on lights for seedlings that might be useful: http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/464/.
They'll be OK!
I have problems with my seedlings getting leggy, too, even though I've got them as close to a south-facing window as I can manage. I know that there's no problem in planting a tomato down to its stem because it will quickly adjust and root. However, my impression was that if you planted other plants lower to cover up the leggy stems, they'll rot. Are there other plants that will easily root instead of rot? Which are they?
Even the brightest window just doesn't give them as much light as you'd think... I saw such a difference when I switched to using a light shelf!
I transplant most things at least a little deeper in their new pots... up to the cotyledons (nurse leaves) is generally a good bet. If a plant has a distinct crown (central point with leaves radiating out from it, like strawberries or some salvias), you don't want to bury the crown). Any plant that can be propagated by rooting in water will generally grow more roots from a buried portion of stem... but even if more roots don't grow, burying part of the stem doesn't seem to do any harm on the seedlings I've tried it with.
And in addition to not providing strong enough light, the window in the wintertime and early spring doesn't provide enough hours of light either. When I start my seeds, I have lights just a couple inches above the seedlings and leave the lights on for 14-16 hrs a day.
Thanks, critterologist. I always thought that many plants would rot if you buried them further. It's good to hear I can do differently.
ecrane3, I just resent the waste of energy. Even if it didn't cost a lot (and my PGE bill is insane despite my usually only having lights on in the room I'm actively in, and other conservation measures), I'd want to conserve because of environmental concerns. If it weren't for the stupid slugs, etc., I doubt I'd be started much of anything inside instead of just sowing in the ground.
I can definitely respect your desire not to waste energy...but if you go that route then you have to accept that pretty much all your seedlings that you start are going to wind up leggy, light from a window is just not going to be enough to prevent that. But life's all about tradeoffs, so you have to do what's right for you!
Spidra, You can't really plant those particular seedlings much deeper than they are right now. They can't be buried deeper than the colyledons, unless they are a special plant that will root along the stem like Impatiens or tomatoes.
I am one of the poeple who plants deeply, but most of the photos people post have a long, long stem-like things and then the cotyledons way on top of that....those get planted deeply.
Some plants naturally grow like the ones in your photo....what are they?
Suzy
Suzy, good catch! I didn't see that the little cotyledons were at the soil surface. Yeah, I'd hesitate before burying the stem too far above the cotyledons.
I respect your desire to save energy, but the florescent seedlings lights aren't that big of an energy hog. A four foot long double-tube shop light with two T-8 cool florescent tubes will take 64 watts of electricity to run... say you run it for 8 weeks, 16 hours per day... 55.3 kilowatts. Even at CA's prices, that should be less than $10 worth of electricity for enough light to get 4 standard nursery flats full of seedlings off to a great start (that's 128 to144 two inch pots).
I'm with critterologist. I use an indoor grow op before March 1st as I don't have enough natural light in the greenhouse until after then. Mine has 8 tubes (4 cool and 4 warm) that I run 24 hours and the cost is neglible. Still I can get 450 2 inch pots going sooooo I think the savings over buying plants is worth it especially if you're growing perennials. Also I think grow ops/green houses are more water wise as the water is contained in trays so there is less loss through drainage and less evaporation with bottom watering so I use way less water than when Idirect sow. I do still direct sow alot though because I really enjoy it.
I agree about the florescent lights using very little energy. I put florescent bulbs in all my lamps and house lights too. The inside ones also will last 5 years, cost about $4 each but in the long run. .....
I always thought sunlight was enough, till everyone here at Daves told me that wasn't true. Got lights and can't believe the difference. I was suprised also to find out the ones started inside were so much bigger than the direct sown ones.
I'm glad the lights are working out for you, Lorraine! A lot of folks seem to have read that article I wrote on setting up lights for seedlings, and that makes me a little nervous, LOL... but so far, nobody reported back to say, well, I went out and bought lights, and phoo, my seedlings don't look any better than they did on the windowsill! I'm hoping everybody who tries lights will love them as much as I do. :-)
I think you told me in a post, adn they have done really well. I planted some marigolds and they were so full and pretty. Got some Candy Tuft in there getting ready to go outside. Although they do have thin stems, but I think that is just the plant. I'll just bury them a little deeper.
Anyway, Critter, thanks!!!! Good job!
Yeah, that's just the way the seedlings are on the Candy Tuft... they'll get a little sturdier looking as you harden them off.
The info on this site is great! I am in a similar situation as the original post-er, looking for suggestions. Its my first time so I just threw a bunch of stuff in a starter kit and waited to see what happened. Some of it I think I wasn't supposed to start inside. See the picture, my sunflowers are laying down they are so light starved. So I'm thinking I'll go for the lighting. Can I use a compact flourescent in a desk lamp pointed down? I have only 2- 36 cell containers.
Also, I was going to transplant the really sad ones to larger pots and bury the stems like it has been suggested, will that work? Here is what I have in there:
Cosmos
Sunflower
Sweet Pea
Zinnia
Lavender
Morning Glory
Hoping someone will take pity on the Newbie and help me save my plants!
I'd go for a shoplight with a couple of inexpensive 48" cool fluorescent bulbs (that provides enough light for 2 standard nursery flats, a little larger than what you have, but you said you're also potting some of them into bigger pots)... You can put cans or something under the smaller flats to raise them close to the lights (which will need to be a little higher if there are bigger pots under them also). For some of the ones that can be direct sowed (everything but the lavender, which may do better with an inside head start), I'd say that if you have extra seeds you might be ahead to start over, either by direct sowing or by starting them under lights.
I don't know any reason a CFL lamp wouldn't work, although it probably won't provide light for as many seedlings as you have, especially once you start potting some of them up. They run a little warmer than regular fluorescent fixtures, so you might have to watch the temperature. It's certainly better than not adding additional light, so go ahead and start shining it on your plants!
Do check out the link to the DG article about seedling lights that I posted above. Good luck! :-)
MG's are going to be leggy. That's the way they grow. Stake those up and they will need as much light as they can get also get them outside asap.
Hmm, guess it was not such a good idea to throw out the extra seeds and seed packets then, huh? I think I'm going for the larger pot transplants rather than start over for now and see. Though I may do both. I can't believe how addictive this is. In no time at all I'm obsessed.
Do seeds have to be planted outside right after last frost or if I mess up this whole batch, can I start over in June?
I was thinking the same about the MG and also the sweet peas, they are standing up fine. Thanks for all your help!
I direct sow a lot of stuff here after Memorial Day... Remember, that "last frost date" is an average, so it's often best to wait a few weeks after that unless you're prepared to cover everything with sheets (done that) or lose a lot of tender seedlings (done that too!).
I think I'm going to start sunflowers in plug trays this year, but outside on the deck. Last year, I lost a lot of seedlings to slugs etc. when they were very small... I may direct sow some of them, but I think I'll also start some backups that I can plant out when they're maybe 6 inches tall and not quite so tasty/tender.
I didn't mean to be posting so much negative stuff... Just keep sowing seeds and trying different things, and you'll find the ways that work best for you and your garden. I always figure as long as I get *something* from a packet of seeds, I win! Success rates are generally pretty good, I think... plants are tougher than we give them credit for, sometimes!
:-)
Thanks critter! I'm trying to keep my expectations low and my volume high. Getting all this great advice really helps me feel like I will be successful at something.
