Straw Bale Gardening - 2008 - General Discussion - PART 20

Susan: I cured my bales organically using fresh horse manure tea. And some blood meal. It worked fine.

I think we have had the carrots question and it still remains unanswered as far as I know. Some say no, some say why not. Im about to try broccolli for the first time. I think Kent successfully grew collard in bales a while ago. Someone else may be able to help more.

Good luck with the bale hunt.

Lena

Suzan: Whatever nitrogen source you add to the bales needs to be readily soluble in water - no time-release type additives. You'll feed your plants later.

To test, put whatever nitrogen source you have in a bucket and add some water and stir. If it dissolves easily, then use it.

There is really no "final conditioning" phase.

We just pump that nitrogen into the bales to increase the decomposition activity. Add warm outside temps and moisture and you have the best environment.

Once that bale heats up from all that decomposition going on inside at one time, the temp will spike and will start to drop back down and continue to come down.

So, whatever you start with that gets those bales "cooking", just stick with that and you'll be fine.

I use a turkey cooker thermometer or my hands to check on the bale temps. It's kind of neat feeling the warmth from inside the bales. You know something is going on.

Again, a key ingredient is the outside temps. That really helps sustain the chemical activity inside the bales. If it's too cold, then no matter what you add to the bales, not a whole lot of "heat" is going to be generated.

Kent

I'm real interested to know what you all may have found helpful to add to the bales for growing specific vegetables- I read someone who said that they used lime for tomatoes . . is that added to the bale during the initial conditioning or later?

Also, I know that melons are kind of persnickety and like certain soil additives- can anyone help me with what might be good to add for : beans, melons, etc., and WHEN/HOW to add them? Many thanks. It's been about 12 years since I was able to garden, so this is so very exciting for me!

Suzan (Gardenville, PA)

Kent: The 'final phase' in the conditioning process I was referring to was the time at the end, after the nitrogen/dried blood phase, when you said to use a 10-10-10 fertilizer for 2 days. Miracle Grow isn't really organic and so I'm trying to figure a good organic substitute for it.

Thanks. Suzan

Suzan: the 10-10-10 addition at the end of the conditioning process is something I got from the original "recipe".

I no longer advocate adding the 10-10-10.

I now suspect that it was a throw-back from dirt-farming.

It can't hurt to add it, but I think it's a waste because the10-10-10 is so scattered on the bale that by the time any roots get to any of it, it will be long dissolved, but I could be wrong.

Focus the feeding around the plants and expand as the plant grows and the roots reach farther into the bale.

Kent

Thanks, again, Kent. My guru! So maybe just watering with a compost tea at the end would be good? As far as fertilizing after planting, would I just use a compost tea for that, too? Or dissolve an organic balanced fertilizer and water with it? What's best?

Also, who can I talk to re: trying hay bales (at least partially)- do you know anyone who's done that? I'm thinking of trying some of each and just documenting the results.

Suzan: feed your plants with whatever method you prefer, keeping in mind how often and how strong, just like dirt-farming. Your plants will "tell" you what's happening or not happening.

Since you're leaning toward organic farming, go back and read all of Lena's posts from NZ. She has done an excellent job in that area.

Plus, we had some folks in the early threads, Parts 1 - 10, who were into organic.

As for the hay users, maybe some of those folks will comment. I've only had experience with straw, but I don't remember any negative comments about grass/hay bales, in fact, they seem to be very pleased with their results.

Kent

I am only into my second year of bale gardening. but I did plant in both straw and hay bales last year. Was far more happy with the alfalfa hay bales, so am only using hay bales this season. I bought from a friend second cutting alfalfa hay, as it is usually pretty weed free. Haven't been able to do much yet except put the bales in place. Has been much too cold. this morning probably broke a record for this date, got down to 17 degrees a little while ago, now starting the uphill climb. Think I probably lost some plants in my little cold frame even tho covered with a blanket.

Donna

Many thanks, Kent, Lena and Donna, for your thoughtful posts. I was able, finally, to find someone local with rye straw- but it's $6/bale! I'm thinking of trying 1/3 straw and 2/3 hay (which I can get for half the price).

I'll keep good records and post regularly. Am curious to know about the diaries I have seen referred to, and also how to post photos to this forum?

I'm so excited! Can't wait to get started!!

Namaste- Suzan

Suzan:
It took me a while too, figuring out how to post a photo.
Click on browse under your post. That should get you close to where your pictures are. I have to click on the down arrow in the small box at the top. then click on documents. That opens another set of items. and then I select pictures. then find the picture you want click on it, and click on open that puts the selected picture in the image box. You can then send or preview before sending.
I'm not real happy with the program for my pictures. Hope yours works faster.
Good luck on the bale garden. Last year I had only one hay bale. I too found it to do slightly better than the oat straw.
I cannot complain about that as I got my bales free. By helping to clean out a retired farmer's hay loft. I still have to go get mine for this year they are still in his loft, and I have some more cleaning to do. Good for him, Good for me. as I too am retired. The tomatoes were outstanding. The vines were still full up untill it was suposed to freeze one night. I picked all that was on the vines. I had to share with a friend, which worked out as he wanted to make some green salsa.
Russ

Ahhh, Russ- An abundance of green tomatoes is a WONDERFUL wealth to have! My problem with tomatoes and zucchini is letting them mature! Fried green tomatoes and batter fried zucchini blossoms are 2 of my favorite things to eat!!

It was neat- when I called the fellow who I finally located to get the straw bales from and told him what I was doing, he said his mom has done it for a while!

Thanks for your tips on downloading the photos here- hopefully I'll have something to photograph SOON! (In the meantime, here's one of my echinacea and a little friend from last summer!)

Namaste- Suz

Hey Suzan; You even got the Bumble Bee.
Glad I could help.
Russ

This was early in the season with peppers and tomatoes in the bales. I have to admitt I had the bales with not near enough room between the two rows. and the 10 10 10 fertilizer probably didn't get watered in soon enough. This year I have liquid fertilizer, pluss I will have some good old horse poo to make some tea for them.
I had little mushrooms poping up from the bales, guess they don't hurt anything though. They only last long enough for the sun to melt them.

Hi Everyone,
Just wanted to say hello. Hope to start my second straw bale garden again this year. Right now I'm still looking for straw bales. Reading the prices around here has really scared me. Hope it isn't that bad.
Thank you for all the news I've been reading. Has anyone come up with a good support system? I accidentally found Strawman's photo of the tomato tunnel! Sure could have used that last year. I'm going to set up for it this year. Did you use regular redtop fencing? or is it the reenforcement for concrete?
Kathy

Kathy, I purchased several 10' cedar rails from Lowe's, like used in post & rail fences. Put them in the ground about 2' deep and a litrtle over 5' on center (4 posts for 1 cattle panel, or in my case 7 posts for 2 panels), and stapled cattle panels above the top of the bales. Ran a row of bales down each side. My mistake was in leaving too large a gap between the bales and the wire cattle panels. The failure was that nothing would reach the wire panels to start to climb and I was too ill at the time to stake stuff.

I've got 2 more panels coming and will cut them lengthwise and add to the bottom of the existing panels. I might even add some length to my rig. Right now it's 32 feet long (2 panels). My winter squash in the bales did too good and spread out over the edges by about 15 feet so this year they go elsewhere.

Thank you , Darius. That sounds very interesting. I may try to do that, with the exception of the cattle panels. I have a roll of fencewire here and need to use what I have. I also have the rails! I'll just add more support across the middle and it may work.
Last year, our garden was a gift from God. Helped my husband through his illness too. Just watching it grow was a joy to him. Our pantry is still pretty well stocked from vegetables I was able to can. We were totally amazed by the bounty.
I was a doubter on this straw bale gardening. Just in case, I worked part time at a community garden just to be sure we would have groceries. Boy, my back ached! While the most work I had in our garden was my lack of support. It is pretty windy here. Then the veggies started growing and soon we were making more in our little garden than my share in the dirt garden. I just stopped taking any pay, so to speak. We had more than enough and plenty to share. This is definitely the way to garden.

O-Tay! It's really underway!! I had my 20 straw bales delivered today(see picture below) and am getting an equal number of haybales this weekend. Got 150' of good new garden hose and 3 - 50' lengths of soaker hose, with all the hook-ups. I AM PSYCHED (or psycho!)! See what you've done, Kent??

The garden, once it got cleaned up today, is much larger than I need, so in the interest of keeping it neat and managable, I'm getting the boundary/critter fencing moved on Friday. Then, on Saturday, I can start soaking/treating my bales. My friend (who's going in on this endeavor with me) bought 4- 5 lb. bags of Urea, so I guess I'll use that.

Got 50 peat pots planted tonight with a variety of stuff: broccoli, crookneck squash, brussels sprouts, 4 varieties of tomatoes, cucumbers, and have a bunch more to start tomorrow, and a bunch MORE to direct seed into the bales! (Found out today that MiracleGro finally has an Organic potting mix this year!)

Whew! OK, Jeanette- it's official now. I'm in the game!

I am hoping to start prepping my hay bales today. it has been too cold, couldn't even turn the water on and leave it on. But yesterday was really like spring, it was 56 degrees, sunny and no wind, and wouldn't you know too much else going on hardly got into the garden at all. Today is supposed to be nice, but was down to 24 degrees again this morning. Good luck everyone with baled gardening.

Donna

I am trying this method for the first time: bought several bales last summer and have let them "cure" over the winter. I bought lots of strawberry starts yesterday and can't wait to get them planted. Any general advice? Thanks!

Sounds good Suzan. What are your temperatures running now?


Love dirty nails, do you have a name?

How do your bales look after the winter of sitting there? I am assuming the weather wasn't warm enough that they decomposed much?? Can you stick your hand down in them to feel how they are inside? Just curious. What kind are they?

Jeanette

Hi jeanette, my name is anne! The bales look OK - at least, they have maintained their general shape. they did decompose a little - which I suppose is good, right, in terms of being ready for planting??? I have NOT stuck my hand down inside of them - I"m not sure I could....they're still pretty compact. I bought these from a hay farmer here in portland who couldn't sell them for feed because they had gotten wet after being cut, so I guess that would make it straw......? I don't know too much about this kind of thing.----Anne

Hi Anne, That is much better, LOL

Yes decomposing is what you are after, to a degree. How are you going to get your nails dirty if you don't stick your hand down in them??? Just force a section apart in the middle of the bale and shove your hand down in and feel for the texture.

No, that doesn't make them straw. It makes them wet, or maybe even a little moldy hay. Should be good nitrogen in them, and maybe they did decompose inside good. Let us know.

Jeanette

dirt_therapy
I'm glad to see some more Oregonians into bales.
I don't have a problem with gophers in my bales but in my raised beds I use a 1/4" hardware screen under.
I had more tomatoes last summer than I have ever had because of my bales.. I still have some in the freezer I need to use. I guess I will stew them in jars for this spring.
I will start to get my bales for this year going this next week. I know the temps are a little low but by the time the bales cook it will be time to plant.
Good Luck all.

Jeanette: It's fluctuating between 45-65 during the days, evenings are pretty chilly, but above freezing.

Got my hay bales delivered today, and tomorrow I hope to get the hoses up and running and start the process! 40 bales and, if I can come up with some more $$, I may get more!

Namaste- Suz

Jeanette; Beautiful weather today. It started out with fog that you could almost see 15 feet. But when the sun burned it off, - - - Beautiful It got up near 70 F I really took advantage of it too. But wouldn't you know it; I had to make a run to the city for some 2x4s.
I thought I had more but when I uncovered the lumber for the patio roof, there was only 4. Now I do remember I had planed to use 2x6s for the rafters. I think the 2x4s were fore something else. I think they were for a bridge over my pond that I have lost interest in, When somebody couldn't keep their grubby hands off. and stole nearly 60 of my KOI.
I gave the rest to Gary at the Barn. He has a dog that will watch for him.
Russ

LOL Russ, when you said Gary at the Barn I thought you were going to have a fish fry.

Dang Russ, we are suppose to get 4 more inches of snow tonight. And here you are up to 70?? That is wicked. I don't think we are going to have any summer this year.

A friend and I spent 4 hours repotting plants into 3 inch pots for the Master Gardener's plant sale next month. I'm not a MG but offered to help out. My kitchen is full of plants. Dahlias I planted from seed last month I'll bet are getting tubers already. Maybe I should pull them up and see. LOL.

Jeanette

Russ: Sorry to hear about your stolen Koi! I bet your pond is lovely anyway. Id love to see pictures of it when you have time to post some. I like ponds.

Thanks, Lena

Lena;
I will have to look for the CD with the pond.
Right now I'm fully ingrosed in constructing a small green house and still need to go get my bales.
I put out a big garden in dirt. and will still be trying bales again for tomatoes and some small melons. The nice thing about the bales for me is they don't have to be in the garden area. I have right at an acre and a half, and can be put any where I want them. I don't have neighbors that would really see my yard or my garden.
Well back to work. Just came in for lunch and a rest. will look up the pics later.
Russ

Lena; one of the pond and the next one will be of the now missing KOI

The thief will have to look for new pond to steal from now.

Your pond is beautiful Russ. Do you think the thief, or thieves, were raccoons? That is normally the ones that do it around here.

Jeanette

Wow thats beautiful Russ! And the fish are very cute. I hope whoever has them is looking after them, and that it wasnt a racoon like Jeanette suggested. Thank you for showing us. I think my pet turtle "Sage" would love your pond too. One day when I have my own place I will build him a pond in my garden. Untill then we will both keep dreaming...

Lena

Jeanette; No I Know it wasn't a raccoon.
The worst part is; there is one other pond in town besides Gary's that I dug for him, big enough for KOI.
This other person told someone that he had too many and gave some to a friend. I went and looked at his pond, And I saw many of mine mixed in with his. Of course my big ones were not there. I suppose he thought the big ones were the only ones I would recognize. One of the big ones had unique markings. She left those markings on all her young.
When I thought of him as a friend and visited his pond, there were none like mine.
My pond has straight drop off on all sides, which deters coons. his does not.
My thought is coons got to his pond and he knew I had a lot of koi.
Didn't think I would miss a few.
He knows I was really up set. He also knows that I made the statement, that because of thieves I can't have any fish. And that I got rid of the rest.

I would love to find a place that is loaded with common carp. Seine them and dump about 50 or so in his pond!

I guess I would have an evil grin on my face for a while. Huh?

Russ, Sure sorry about your loss of Koi , I only have one, and I know they are expensive. I do have about 35 or so goldfish, the oldest being more than 15 years. I can hardly imagine someone being mean enough or bold enough to steal someones fish. My ponds are not as large as yours and are ready for spring. There are about 12 or 15 frogs and/or toads in the smaller pool now and really talking it up.

Well, Donna; I do like to hear frogs. So for now I think it would be safe to have frogs and turtles.
Since I have had time to think things over, I have even thought about raising catfish. I probably would not have eaten any of the KOI. But now catfish, that would be a different story. The way the inflation is heading It could be a better way to go anyway.
We don't have to drive much, but we can't seem to stop eating.
I'm making my garden bigger, putting in more of every thing. Gary and I are going to work together, in that I can use his store front to sell some of the produce. We will give it a shot anyway!
Russ

Russ, that sounds like a great idea. Working with Gary to sell your produce. However, don't you get in over your head and overdo it. That is a lot of work. I am find out how much work it is just to sell the plants I am raising for the MG plant sale not even raising them through the summer and then all the canning etc. that you do.

Jeanette

Well, it got pretty chilly here today while I was soaking my bales for the second day- I guess tomorrow I'll do the first urea application. Kent (or anyone), can you tell me: shall I dissolve the urea and pour it over thebales as a liquid or just broadcast the powder and water it in with the hoses?

I worked so hard yesterday, but it was really worthwhile (I'm trying to convince my back now)! Got the bales situated, straw on one side and a mirror image of the same bale configuration in hay. My friend and I moved all the fences (big job!) to make it a more manageable size. Next, I think we'll put down layers of newspaper (my tenant has tons!) between the rows of bales. I'll attach a picture. Started a lot of seeds (over a warming pad) and got another one today so I can start a second tray. (Oh yes! And I found 6 praying mantis cocoons!)

Wish I had room for a lovely pond like yours, Russ. Maybe in my next lifetime . . .

Suz

Jeanette; Yup, it's a lot of work! We sure enjoy the fruits of our labor in the winter when the cold bites and nothing will grow.
I just potted up another 28 sweet potatoes. About 1/3 of them were Blackies.
I know I have way too many tomato plants. I know I will not have that many bales however I have always have had good luck with them in the dirt as well.
If I didn't have good access to nearly all the grass clippings, to mulch between the rows, I would probably think twice about that big of a garden.
I hope a lot of people at the RU want castor bean plants. I have around 140 of them. Moby from Lincoln is bringing some as well.
I also have 70 or 80 pepper plants. Some are hot other are Bells.
I haven't started any of the yellow banana yet, I've run out of room on my plant stand.
I got a quite a bit done on framing in the greenhouse. Hopefully I will get done tomorrow and start moving some of the plants to it.
Have to start pressing to get the rest of the tinware back onto my garden tractor. That will save me a lot of the backbreaking work of rototilling.
Just looked at the time, guess I better get this old man to bed.
Russ

Hey Suz; I like the table and chairs by the garden.
I always have a chair, but haven't thought about the table yet.
If I put a table out there, I would probably have to have a cooler too. LOL
Looks like your garden is taking shape
I'm trying to hurry my self to finish my greenhouse. Then I need to go get my bales yet. Lucky for me that very few around here are doing the bale garden or I might not be able to wait. :>)
I can't really answer your question on dissolving the urea or not . I spread mine on last year and kept watering it in. It took a while but it did eventully water in . Blood meal, seems to water in faster. Then I also put 10-10-10 fertilizer on and that took more time to all dissolve.
Then what peppers I had planted in the bales never really did do real well. untill almost too late. I know I didn't really know what I was doing. I sure was trying to do everything I could, and hoping it was right.
The tomatoes did great.
Russ

Russ, what size pots do you have your caster beans, peppers, tomatoes etc. in? Are they in the ones that you are taking to the RU? When is that anyway? And, where?

I don't know about dissolving the Urea to apply it. Never tried that. I just dumped it on, or sprinkled it I guess, and watered it in. Same with the home made fertilizer mix I got from Perry's instructions. When I used triple 20 I dissolved it and poured it on.

Guess whatever strikes you at the time.

Jeanette