Easier, better soil, less work, in place Composting Part 2

Thanks Carrie, That last picture is what it currently is right now, today... These are new beds that haven't had the benefit of organic matter being put into them all winter long.. I just finished that bed this past week and here is what I did yesterday on my birthday :) I personally can't think of spending a birthday doing anything better than shovelling poo all day, can you??

Here is the before..

ooppss.. here's that pic.. Nope Carrie... as i said these are instant gratification beds.. The paper and the heavy weight will smother the grass. The worms will eat the paper and it will decompose over time. next year there will be no paper underneath. The worms will eat it and if they complain about the glossy ones, I wont use them again :) However, now that i have built them and planted them, i will mulch with leaf mold when it becomes available in May i think.. and still feed the soil.

Tree ring bed before:

I marked the edge of my bed

This area is right next to the shade area of my yard where I have my potted plants. I have used this area here as I spent soil dumping place for the last year as I knew I was going to create this bed.

I prefer edging to tell me where to stop planting and my husband to stop mowing. When doing this around trees, it is important not to cut into tree roots too much. The edging can be laid down sideways with the top coming "up".. the stuff I use can anyway :)

Installed

Now I took the leftover bags I had from all the leaves I took off curbs and I tore them down the middle and laid them flat onto the grassy areas. If it is at all windy, find a child to hold them down while you go load up on compost to put on top of it.

Chloe is a great supervisor :)

OH that's what you mean by "edging" - that stuff. Thanks. Happy egg-day. xx, Carrie

Fill in the area with lots of compost.

Some trees can't take much back filling at all. Dogwoods in particular would be bad for this. These two trees are a black cherry which I wouldn't cry for if i lost, and a tulip poplar, which I do care more about. In making a tree ring circle garden, regardless of which type of tree it is, you must not build up around the trunk of the tree. The trunk needs to stay at the same soil line level it has been growing for its lifetime. If you do build it up, you will get rot on the trunk and kill the trees vascular system which is just under the bark..

To the newbies... If you want great plants and flowers, you must start with great soil. If you want to build up your soil after you have already planted, it can be done but it is like working on the foundation of your home after the home is built.. much better if you get a good one to start with :)





This message was edited Mar 24, 2008 4:12 PM

I put down a liberal amount of aflfa alfa pellets just before my last go around with compost. This will force the worms up to the top and they will pull it down and all around creating even better, rich soil. Also, I guess this is the lazy gardeners method of making alfa alfa tea! :)

Ready to plant!! :) I'll show this as the season progresses :)

Happy Easter Everyone :)

Susan, thanks for the great examples. DH and I put down a lot of newspaper last year and covered with wood chips. (Free wood chips from the guys cutting trees down by power lines near us. DH followed the truck around asking them to dump in our yard.) I'll be doing a lot of planting in those areas this year. Most of the area was bare dirt, not so much grass. I'll have to try this on grassy places. Who needs grass anyway... Love your instant gratification bed. I'm looking forward to seeing it grow. I wonder if Gwinnett does that free compost stuff. hmmm. Becky

I know Dekalb county does..two locations..but you shovel, no loaders.. I know from personal experience!! :( Good luck Becky!

I keep referring other people to this thread! :>)
x, Carrie

I'm getting on this thread late, coming in from your birthday thread. Love your new shade garden, Susan. Are you going to put in a winding path inside your shade garden? I'll be following your progress. I started two shade gardens last year like your pictures show. Building lasagna beds around two pine trees proved that I needed to expand them outwards more. Man are those roots murder!
What are aflafa pellets?

do the alfalfa pellets count as the 'green'stuff in the layers or the 'brown' stuff?

Hey Deborah, No path there, but I do have a cool little plan for the center of the bed that i will share in pics later. Stay tuned :) yes, not only can you not dig through tree roots, but it just isn't a good idea either :) I'm planning to seed some annuals closer to the trunks where i can't dig. Maybe there will be enough compost for some seeds to start and take hold.

Thanks Cape Cod.. I get my 50 pound bags at a feed and seed store. I'm sure they have them at Tractor Supply too.. if you have one nearby.

One, Hmmm.. I haven't given it any thought. I don't think of it as a green or brown.. I think of it as worm food! :)

I forgot to mention.. I also put down lots of coffee grounds down on the area before I laid down the brown bags. I didn't put it on top of the compost for not wanting to mess with the PH of the compost too much and loose out on blooms for it. That bed is going to be a worm fiesta. :) As Martha would say -Thats a good thing.

:)


Susan



This message was edited Mar 24, 2008 9:20 AM

Wow, Susan, it is going to look great. I remember when your DH was afraid to turn you loose but you have created a masterpiece and still going strong.

I wish I had gotten into gardening when I was younger and had more energy.

Brenda

Thanks Brenda. Well.. I'm guessing if I keep this pace up It'll probably kill me! But seriously... I really enjoy it :)

What the "younger" cutoff age?

I'm not getting older, I'm just getting wiser :) (Hopefully!)

:)

I was thinking green too... :o)

Susan,

I was just catching up on your column, and it is very timely. This weekend, I am planning to do the same thing around my dogwood in the front yard. I will eventually put some ponytail grass, and daylilies around it. I already have some of the grass that I grew from seed last year waiting in my garage, and I decided to grow some additional grass this year as well. I am going to add stella d'oros. I was thinking about including ruby stellas as well, but it might be better off without so many colors.

Since our high temps are about fifty, I thought that I would build up the whole area, but not actually plant the grass or daylilies until late May or early June. That will give the area some time to begin decomposing. I realize that everything won't be broken down by then, but I am hoping that the grass will be gone. Last year, when I enlarged my beds, I used the same method and planted right away. I found that that led to tufts of grass that didn't die. I'm also going to be using more paper this year.

Last year was my first summer that I did not use Miracle Grown. I went to the Tractor Supply store and bought some alfalfa, used lots of compost, and fish emulsion. I really want to concentrate on improving the soil, and not just pumping up the plants temporarily with fertilizer.

Yes, it's time to build beds and improve existing ones. Be careful not to back fill too much around dogwood roots.. They have lots of surface roots. My theory about whether or not the grass dies under the paper isn't just how many layers of paper, and how thick it is, but also the weight of the compost above it. Think of how a bag of potting mix put down and untouched for a while will kill what is underneath, but just a regular piece of plastic placed in the same area would take much longer.. for letting in light and water. It needs some weight on it too.

I can't hold off to plant! :)..Things I already own anyway. I'll have too much to do all at once. Reminds me of the time I set out some tomato seedlings around July! I just couldn't bring myself to trash them either. :) .. But I need to get as much into the ground and planted as I go or else I get overwhelmed. I do have a gas camping lantern that has been used many nights in the garden :)

I'm not against synthetic fertilizers.. I don't use them very often, but yes, your correct.. the best keep secret is in the soil and making sure your soil is full of life and your plants will thrive

:)

Susan

Hey,
I might actually get to start a new Forum! "Gardening Tips, Tricks & Shortcuts!" But, you know Dave and the admins watch the thread to see how much interest there is before they'll launch a new site. So, I'm asking your support to 1) vote for the new forum and 2) spread the word in the forums you visit regularly and encourage others to vote, too!



Here's the link to the original thread: [HYPERLINK@davesgarden.com]

Thanks a bunch, guys!

Linda

Its a dead link Linda :)

Linda, the link is not working for me - I think it is a wonderful idea!

Beth in Kansas

need alink! :o) I'll gladly vote :o)

Hi, all! I am new to DG and have just read through all of the information on lasagna garden beds and composting in place. I have a couple of questions:
1. I'm a high school teacher.... do you think I can use student papers that don't have tape or staples? (Psst.. don't tell the
kids!) Pencil seems ok, just graphite, a form of carbon; but what about ink pens?
2. I have two horses, so manure is NOT a problem, but green stuff is at this point in the year. I'm single and don't produce a
lot of green waste. Suggestions?
3. I don't drink coffee, but I do drink tea. I know that tea is acidic; can used tea bags be used under acid lovers, like my blue
berries?
Thanks in advance

BlueBarnLady, welcome to DG and to answer your questions..
1. Yes you can.. I know that your concerned about the pen markings, but it is so minuscule..really it is. :) it's fine.
2. I have piled manure at least a foot deep where I've wanted to create new beds without the benefit of any other material and have been very pleased with the results :) You will be fine with the manure alone. You just might want to give it some time to age to a resemblance of soil before you plant in it.
3. I don't either! I drink tea all day long.. I cut off the stapled top part and pile the bags up into a bowl with whatever other organic matter I toss into the beds.. I think you need much much more than tea bags to affect the PH of your soil.. Like a liberal amount of coffee grounds from the coffee shop placed all around the base of a plant.

Good Luck! :)

Susan

This message was edited Mar 30, 2008 1:32 PM

Welcome Bluebarnldy. I'd like to mention one warning about horse manure. Let it age or it could possibly kill your earth worms. Horses that are regularly fed feed with dewormer will have a high concentrate of the stuff that's still active enough to kill all worms. Read that somewhere and thought I'd pass that along..

Blue Barn, in my town, people are still collecting raked leaves and yard waste and so on. Also, oneanji's comment above about alfalfa pellets. But if you've got manure, you're good to go! Welcome to DG. xx, Carrie

Susan, how deep is the soil in your new beds? I need to "build" three instant beds very soon and that is the method I wanted to use...of course I may have to get soil by the bag....is it a lot cheaper to get a truck load? I don't have a truck, but I think there is a place nearby that will deliver soil for me....how do you measure to figure out how much soil you need?

Susan, I'm hooked on this layering method. It's amazing how little time it takes for everything to break down when using materials in layers. A little bed started just two weeks ago has settled to about half as high as it was. I found a source of well composted leaf mould, although I only get it by the bucket load and must carry it some little distance, and I'm still on the meager side of the green component, with my kitchen scraps, but the grass is greening up and growing taller so we should have a good amount very soon.

One little thing, my beds don't look as "finished" as I'm used to. They are rougher looking with leaves, small twigs, and food scraps like shredded cabbage or carrot peels sticking out in places. Admittedly, this is a small matter when compared to the relative ease and speed of this method. As JanetS notes, I'm also wondering, how deep do you try to have your new beds, and does it make a difference whether you are planting potted starts that require a little depth around it or direct seeding?

Pamgarden,
Just remember to bury your scraps deep enough that no odor escapes, to avoid wild animals furrowing in to have a midnight snack!

Janet.. as Pam says, it will sink some.. All the decomp will settle as it is breaking down. In the instant beds I constructed above.. I'm guessing at least 12 inches in the deepest places?? However, it will still settle some after rain and such..so maybe I went a little deeper. It was cheaper to get it by the truckload in my case :) Measure?? I didn't measure.. I can use all that I had delivered and more! :)

Pam, sounds good. :) Yes, they wont look "finished" till you cover with a mulch of your choice.. I use leaf mold in the late spring. You probably wont be able to direct seed on leaves that are breaking down. You can cover it all with a fine compost that you buy or even a good soil.. The seeds need a great starting place to sink their roots into. As far as planting from pots.. You can do that any time and if you hit the soil under your raised area, then just mix it all in and plant.. just like I did above :)

Susan

Hi Pam, I also didnt like the rough look of the beds after doing the layering.
I cheated and added a thin layer of peat moss over the entire bed after I planted, just so it will look a little better until everything grows and covers the bare 'layers' :o)