When do you give up on the seeds

When do you figure out that the seeds just aren't going to germinate and plant some more?

Depends what kind of seeds they are... some take a couple of days, some take months! What are you trying to start?

I have some I have been waiting on since before Christmas and I am about to do the 'cuss and stir' with them! :)

I have some started well before Christmas (daylilies) and they are still coming up :o)


Princess Tammy-shouldn't you be getting some sleep?

It really depends on the person and the space.

Some seeds definitely take longer to germinate then others. Some that 'reportedly' take longer, germinate in a week or two (in my experience).

But, in my personal opinion, this really doesn't matter a whole lot.

The real key (for me) is 'am I running out of space' and 'do I have other seeds I want to try'?! If my seed starting table is full, some of the lseeds that take longer might hit the waste basket come late Feb when I need to start my tomatoes.

For me, I have found that most seeds germinate in a week to 10 days. After 3 weeks, I move them off for another batch unless they are in my one tray that is designated for the seeds that take longer.

I make a note of this in my journal. I might try them again, but I'll be sure to allocate some space that I expect to be hogged up by that seed for a good while.

It really depends on the seed--I have some that have germinated in a day or two, and others really do take months (most of the ones that took months were tropical trees/shrubs) If it is a type of seed that should have germinated a long time ago, before you go and plant a bunch more, you ought to figure out what went wrong with this batch, or else you might end up with the same result all over again. It could be something was wrong with the seeds, and in that case some new seeds from a different source ought to do the trick. Or it could have been a problem with the conditions--too much or little light, too much or little water, planted too deep or not deep enough, too warm or not warm enough, etc.

Sometimes those that haven't germinated need special treatment - I had some that weren't coming up, and I put them in my garage for cold treatment, and kept an eye on the moisture level. When spring arrived along with warm temps they came up. Also, some require darkness. So if you are following the instructions for special treatment and they haven't come up in the longest time it says on the package, cuss and stir away! And try a different brand next year.

Oops- cross posted with ecrane! What she said...

This message was edited Feb 15, 2008 10:40 PM

Yep, getting ready to get that much needed sleep, Robbi! :)

I'm sure some of them just aren't ready, but some of the same kind that I winter sowed are coming up already , so maybe I need to put these outside.
Most of them, except for the lantana and Liatrus, have at least had some come up. You know I'll have 12 of the little pots and maybe 5 will come up, or even 7 or 8. I haven't done a lot of this, so I just don't know what to expect and don't know what takes a while.
I know my hibiscus haven't come up, but I've got so many coelus I don't know what to do with them.

I was assuming that you'd had no germination at all...if you've had some seeds come up, then my rule of thumb is if for example it took 1 month for the first ones to germinate, I'll wait another month before I give up on more of them coming up. Or if it took 2 wks, I'll give the rest another 2 wks. Then I sometimes pitch them, or sometimes I'll hang in there and wait longer just because I haven't had time to throw them out, but I don't think I've ever had anything come up after my deadline.

But my rule of thumb only applies if the seeds were from the same packet or gathered at the same time--once you throw in the additional variable of different storage conditions or different level of freshness in the original seeds, then the variability in time to germination will be larger and you might end up throwing out things that actually would germinate eventually.

This "rule of thumb" is for what we grow indoors, not winter sowed right? Guess I'll spend the rest of the night chunking stuff that hasn't come up yet. I really wanted the Lantana but I think they are some of the ones that didn't come up I've got a lot of stuff coming up outside in my containers but figure I shouldn't worry about them because they'll come up when they get ready and the weather is right.

I definitely wouldn't compare germination from wintersowing with germination in a flat indoors, you need to compare among things that were started the same way. I imagine wintersowing and starting indoors things will germinate at different times. And I don't wintersow, so I don't know if my rule of thumb would work for it or not, all I know is that's been my observation with the seeds I start indoors. Also, my rule of thumb is only for cases where some of the seeds of that particular plant have germinated but others haven't yet--you mentioned a couple posts ago that none of your lantana have come up yet, so I wouldn't pitch them yet, they might take a little longer to germinate than your other types of plants.

That's what I figured and I know the ws stuff wil take longer, however I 've got "Sweet Williams" growing inside and outside.

But if I have a flat with say, marigolds or something and 50% of them are up and have several leaves, I probably should figure the others arent and plant some more.
Can I use the same dirt, or since they didn't come up is the dirt bad.

I would probably get fresh mix for the new seeds--not that there's necessarily anything wrong with what you have, but since it's been sitting open to the air for a while it could have accumulated some fungal spores and things, and it would be better to start over with fresh sterilized mix, that'll minimize the chances of damping off if you get the new seeds to germinate.

Could I sterilize the stuff in the pots. You know, dump it all together and put it in the microwave.
I just get the shakes when I think of throwing out all that dirt!!! Oh well, guess it could go in the compost pile

You probably could...I've never done that, anytime I have used potting mix or seed starting mix I just dump it in the garden, I honestly never thought about reusing it. But if you sterilize it I think it would be fine.

Now I feel so cheap!!!!lol You know they said you end up like your mother. That woman always found something else to do with things if the original plan didn't work out!!!

It really comes down to the battle between cheapness and laziness. For me, laziness will usually win. It's easier to dump it in the garden and get fresh stuff out of the bag (yes I know you're supposed to sterilize stuff out of the bag too, but I never do)

Maybe it's because my mother is Scottish, but I reuse the mix that seeds don't come up in. I use it when transplanting seedling into bigger pots. I figure by this time the plants are big and sturdy. I've never had any problems. The only mix I throw into the garden/composter is what I dump out of hanging baskets and planters from the previous season.

See, that Scottish blood running in your veins is keeping you on the straight and narrow. I have some scot blood to and my great grandfather was from Ireland. That's got to be some kind of mix. No wonder I can't throw things away till I finally figure I'm really never going to need that plastic pudding cup

wait! that plastic pudding cup can be used to start another seedling! or you can turn it upside down and use it as a dome over one of your seedlings! DONT throw it out yet! LOL

I love your posts lorraine, I'M learning from all your questions :)

Annmarie

Actually, I have a drawer full of them!!! I figure they are as big as the little peat Jiffy ones and don't dry out as fast. Let's just say we're frugal, not crazy.
I do like the idea of the dome. One pudding cup, seeds, other pudding cup taped with duct tape on top of it. Now, I just gotta start looking in trash cans for pudding cups or eating a lot of it.!!

LOL! I used yogurt containers before. Then I heard about eggs shells and thought that would be easier, its not! now I'm just lazy and tried the peat pots.... but cant reuse them :(
I just ordered a whole bunch of seeds online, and I only have 10 plastic trays I can re-use, so I am sure I will come up with all kinds of inventive little containers that will work in a pinch! :)
I think I'll be buying lots of yogurt and pudding this next week :)

Well, the yogurt is good for you and the pudding is good, and you don't have to stop looking for containers while you eat it!!
Where do you order your seeds? I've been thinking about ordering the bulk stuff so I have some to trade, but if I don't stop spending, I'm going to have to sell my pudding cups to other gardeners.

LOL! I know what you mean! I just ordered some from http://www.dianeseeds.com/seeds/perennial.html I ordered about $50 worth. Havent received them yet. This was my first time ordering them on line. Previously I just bought packets of seeds from Home Depot but didnt have very good germination and I'm tired of planting the same ole flowers each year, wanted to try something new. Also, I was planting for containers before, now I can go with bigger and better flowers and ones that will reseed themselves.
I foung Diane's seed site on DG and I'm hoping they are a good site (fingers crossed) some of her packets have 400 seeds! store packets have about 25 for the same price! I may try the trade thing for seeds I have left over, I just havent had a chance to read through how all that trade stuff works yet.

The trades are fun. I'm doing a round robin, the butterfly hummingbird one and it's really been fun. I've done a lot of trades even though I've just been on the site a few months and don't have a lot of seeds. Everyone has really been nice and have sent me way more seeds than I deserve!!
I even started a mixed seed trade and it has been fun.
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/811441/

Just go into them and read them, but I don't do the SASE trades anymore, you can buy seeds as cheap as you can spend for postage to have someone send you seeds. You learn as you go and everyone is so nice because they know you are new to trading.

I think the first trade I did was one of the newbie ones. If you haven't been a member longer than October, you should go on the Round Robin forum and check out the Monthly Mayhem Newbie trade, here's the link. http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/815887

:I did when I first joined DG and I got lots and lots of seeds and you don't have to send any unless you want too. That will get your feet wet and you'll see how people pack their seeds, etc.
I've heard about Diane's and what I've heard is good. I'm going to order some, I'll have some and can trade some.

Gee, you didn't want all that, did you.

LOL! actually that does help alot. I appreciate it. I did sign up for the newbie trade thing, just sent my envelope to distankin the other day. of course I didnt read through all the posts first.... so I sent a regular flat envelope and put the stamps on it! LOL I just sent her an email and asked her if she needs me to send a bubble one instead. I figured I would get the seeds and see how others are packing theirs as well, that way I can learn from all their mistakes and not look so dumb :) LOL.!
I have ALOT of work on my yard this year, and dont know how to collect seeds yet -I have a million morning glory seeds laying in one of my beds, they self cross-propogated (sp?) and are now red and white striped, or blue and white striped! lol. Anyhow, I decided to grow something else there now, and I cant get these seeds to stop growing! Wish I would have known last year, I would have millions of morning glory seeds to trade this year!
After I get my garden going, I may try to learn how to collect seeds for trading in the future, for now I will just trade seeds that I have left over from this super-sized seed order I just placed!

The humming bird trade thing looks interesting. I just bought my first hummer feeder and already have a hummer standing guard over it! They love my trumpet vines on the freeway wall, so I am trying to plant things closer to the house so I can enjoy watching them from my window. My DH just made 14 birdhouses, that we will be putting up soon, hopefully we will have robins, finches and wrens nesting this spring.

I'll go check out that thread....
Annmarie

I have a million morning glory seeds too, and the same with marigolds. I wish I had thought to order a few bulk seeds to help with trading. I really love the large trades and swaps, get so many seeds back and they are always a surprise, and with me, most of the time I don't have the.
I have lots of marigold, but there are so many different kinds, I can't believe. Ansolon sent me an heirloom one and Queen Sophia and they are coming up, Can't wait.
If you trade your morning glories, be sure to tell people they are unusual, even if you don't know the latin name. That will keep them from saying "oh, I already have plenty of those.
Distantkin may have some bubble envelopes laying around so maybe she could use one of those and you could make it up to her later or something. She is really sweet and will understand.

Lol! First, I would have to read up on how to collect them and clean them all. I have no clue how to do that. The seeds just fell off these plants and are completely covering my bed (like mulch!) and now they are starting to sprout! Someday, when I have more time, I'll have to learn about seed collecting and cleaning. For right now I'll just trade the seeds I bought too much of, and concentrate on creating healthy beds so I will have plants I can collect seeds from :)
You have all been a wonderful help. I am really looking forward to this gardening season!

The MG have little brown round "seed holders " on them, open it and several seeds come out. So look for the round brown thing!!! Now you see why your can't get rid of them, they just keep reseeding.
You should look closely at all those seeds on the ground. They're little black things.
Now, you're all ready for next year lol

I like your idea of buying the bulk too.

dont you have to dry the seeds before sending them?

Yes, but if you've got them on the ground, they are probably already dry. And you know, I think it would be ok to send them less than dry as long as you tell whoever you're trading with.

Don't do what I did. I had some marigold once, and they needed to dry them so I put them in the oven. Lowest temp I could. Was going to leave them for a couple minutes, forgot and left them 2 hours. I really had some dry seeds!!

LOL! sounds like somethin I would do! Maybe I'll rake some of them up, just in case. It would be interesting to see what they bloom this year, last year they were striped with the red and white ones. I have a bunch of 4 oclocks that did the same thing, now I have four-oclocks that are all speckled blended colors. Its always interesting to see what blooms in that bed each year. Last year one 4 oclock grew to almost 6 feet! It was like it had a throw back gene! LOL

I have never seen them striped like that. Hope you find some viable seeds!!! Have the plants themselves totally died down. Are there still pods on plant. You can probably tell if they are too dried out, they'll be all wrinkly, probably. I don't know what I'm talking about. Maybe go to the saving seed forum and post a picture of some and they'll know. The little brown pods usually have 4 or 5 seeds.
I bet you can really trade them if they are striped, I think that's probably really unusual.

The vines have completely dried up and I removed them. I just hove some new seedlings sprouting in the bed, pulled most of them last weekend, because that is where I planted the Jasmin and lavender vines. I just wanted something evergreen for that area. I guess I could try to put some of the seeds in my starter trays and see what comes up this year. They are definitely molted in color, I planted them a few years ago, there were blue, fuschia and white ones. last year they were pink/white and blue/white ones! we were laughing at how the 'mated' with each other :) -same thing happened with the 4 o clocks planted originally at the same time. I just thought that they were bad seeds, that the second generation seed wasnt true to the first year ....something I read on here? It would be interesting to maybe let a few grow this year and see how they look.

You could try the coffee filter method and see if any germinate...

the coffee filter method? what is that? just putting them in a wet coffee filter inside a bag?

There is a big discussion on it here, but basically, yes!

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/757998/

Zarebeth, Thank you. I think I will try using the paper towels though. My DH will have a big frown if we suddenly run out of coffee filters! LOL. Now, I just need that postman to arrive with the seeds I ordered, and I'm all set! :)

Maybe when they start coming up in the yard, take up the seedlings and pot them up. Would that work?

I've used the paper towels and coffee filters and have gotten some pretty good little roots!!

Be sure to post a picture of the ones that come up this year