Hi, I'm going to write an article about what to avoid if you want to be a popular trader. For example, writing so small or illegible on the seed pack that it can't be read. So I really need your input. Please keep it general and DO NOT mention any names (if anyone does I will have admin remove the post). If this gets out of hand I will shut it down, so be nice ;0)
I'll probably use the top 10 to 15. I really appreciate your feedback.
TIA, ~ jan
CLOSED: A poll...what are your biggest complaints
failure to put the full botanical name - I received "Chinese Lantern" - BUT I don't know if these are Hibiscus schizopetalus (aka Fringed Rosemallow) or Abutilon (aka Flowering Maple) or Physalis alkekengi (aka Strawberry Ground Cherry). ALL are also known as Chinese Lantern.
It takes only a couple of seconds to look stuff up in the Plant Files to make sure the name is correct.
It means the recepient can look up things like growing conditions, height, spacing etc in the Plant Files.
my pet peeve is receiving fewer than 2 dozen seeds in exchange for seeds i have sent to another member. notorious for sending great gobs of seeds, i do not expect others to do as i do. however i so often receive merely a half dozen or so seeds that i have pretty much withdrawn from the activity, at least through public forums such as this. i've fallen back to trading with folks whom i know understand that at least 24 seeds traded is the so-called norm.
many folks are not actually growing what they trade - - they're more collectors than gardeners. well, i am a gardener, not a gambler, and i know that many species of plants have spotty germination rates. a minimum of 2 dozen seeds gives the other partner in a trade a better chance of growing specimens of the plant than hitting the jackpot in Lotto.
well, that's JMTCW. now it's back to lurking for me . . .
ATBTY ! ~ ŁazŁo
If there is something wrong with the seed, let the trader know:
- small quantity
- from a trade or swap
- older seed
- split or half pack
- seed from a hybrid which may or may not come true
- seed which may not be seed or is hidden in the chaff
- full heads of flowers the recipient must clean
- chaffy
(In most cases, the person wants the seed and can put up with the hassles, but it's only fair to tell him or her ahead of time)
Making and packing:
Don't handfold little teeny tiny envelopes that are so small they fall between the cracks of dividers in a shoe box. (not sure how you'd say that, though, it's hard to explain)
Don't write on plastic ziploc style seed packs without having a piece of paper inside to offset the writing on "clear".
Make sure the seeds are DRY before you pack them.
If all the seeds are going to stick to the plastic envelope or fall out between the cracks of a handmade envelope, then make a waxed paper insert.
Don't use those super-heavy and rather large coin envelopes. The ones that are 3" x 5"- they weigh so much!
Don't send full heads. You have to make sure there is some seed in those heads and the only way to do it is to clean them.
Quantity:
Don't be stingy with seed unless they are commercial seeds of a named variety from a pack you are splitting to be nice.
Identification:
Put your DG name, the color, and height, and Latin name on the seed pack -- if you have room and time, add the common name and the year of harvest. This can be done with a word processing program and a single sheet of paper and doesn't take as long as writing out the labels. The slip of paper would be glued, stapled or inserted inside the seed pack.
Mailing:
Don't send seeds in an envelope with no padding.
Use the zip + 4
Make sure your DG address is up to date (look under Extras on the home page) BE in the address exchange, or give the person your address i nthe first dmail where you talk about seed trading.
#1- Don't offer seeds that are not packed and ready to go. When people make a trade, they are expecting to get those seeds in the next week-10 days.
#2 Don't offer things on your trade page that "will" be available next year. List them when they become available. (use the DG radio button to turn them on and off as they are available/sold out/available again.)
Suzy
I asked that question a while ago and was told by a few people 6-8 seeds were fine. Small seeds should be more and if it's really exotic a few seeds would be fine. I know personally I send a lot of seeds if it's something that I have a lot of seeds of. Like hardy hibiscus, I ended up with 100's of them. Other seeds I might have a few but more than I need so I'll trade off 6-8. That seems to be enough seeds to get a couple of plants and have more seeds the next year.
I new to all this so I'm not really sure what the right answer is here. BTW Lazlo those seeds you sent me for SASE are all growing now. I have MG bushes all over the place. Those germinated 100%. LOL.
Zip +4 ??? I don't even know mine.
Yes, then you need to look it up. Your gas bill, water bill, tax bill, bank statement or any presorted commercial mail like that will have a zip code and then a hyphen then 4 more numbers. It makes it faster to receive your seeds.
6-8 seeds is not fine. UNLESS they are brand spankin' new out of the envelope seeds and only had 30 in the package, or UNLESS they are seeds that sell 20 for $4.95. Sometimes a tropical or a tree like a Paw Paw will only have that many, but if they are countable (if you can count them) then you need to say there are only that many seeds up front, in the trade offer, not after the trade is made.
Suzy
I just did a quick sample of the address exchange. 10 ramdom names and none use zip+4. It couldn't hurt to throw my extra digits on my zip code but I think the extra numbers are more useful in big cities and big office complexes.
As far as the number of seeds I did post in this forum, how many should I send. Whether you like the answer or not, that was the answer I recieved. I simply want to pick up seeds that I can't get where I am. In some cases I just want to try a plant to see if it will grow here. I actually grow this stuff and in most cases I don't need that many seeds. Like I said with the bush MG's, I'm getting 100% germination and more than enough for personal use. I have Telosma cordata seeds and those were 100%. On the easy seeds I don't see why you would need 20 or so seeds unless your splitting them up with others.
It doesn't matter to me, someone just come up with an excepted amount of seeds for a trade.
I just went and added the +4 to my zip...can't hurt. I'd like my seeds to get to me as quick as they can :0)
Illoquin,
You've seen some of the packets I send (in the seed swap). Is it OK like that?
CoreHH, I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about sending seeds, not receiving them.
Yes of course, Tuink...the problem is almost exclusively with new people who don't have any seeds to trade. They get a pack of seeds and just have to subdivide that pack so they have more to trade. Hopefully NEW people will see this and get the hint.
Suzy
I guess my biggest complaint is when trading with someone & you send yours in a timely manner, then don't get anything from them or any response to Dmails....
I think the biggest thing in trading is communication-if it is a smaller amount, going to run late, are sending full flower heads/chaff, etc. I have had some delays in sending or have a smaller than 20 amount (what I have been told by everyone is 20-30 is an acceptable trade amount), and as long as I have aommunicated that to the other person, they have been fine and still want to do the trade...
I have lived in several different states and large cities and have never known my +4 zip-while I think it couldn't hurt, I don't think it is necessary-just my opinion....
I will have to admit I don't like getting whole seed heads that I have to clean but light chaff doesn't bother me a bit. So long as I can see there is a good bit of seed Ill just plant it chaff and all.
If I'm sending really large, rare or really expensive seeds I will usually only send a few (3-5 seeds) but always let the person your trading with know that you plan to send only a few seeds. Being up front and honest will save lots of headaches! A lot of times I will order some crazy seed, plant what I want... they all come up and then I'm left with an odd number of seed to give away or trade. If you know germination is good a few seeds are all you need. To me any amount of seed is ok as long as it is agreed upon by both traders.
As for packaging... There is just nothing quite as irritating as picking seeds off of tape and trying to open 1"x1" folded pieces of paper PLEASE don't do it!!! Other than that I'm cool LOL!
Caren
I am new. I thought about the whole small trade thing... The smallest I have packed has been 20 seeds. I have a very active black lab and if she gets bored one of her favorite games is destroy the pot. I usually plant 6-12 seeds at a time (though if I had only 12 or less I would probably plant half unless it was less then 6, then all at once). I would hate to get a seed I was really excited about and lose all my seedlings for my dogs entertainment. I figure 20 plus is a good amount because it gives room for mistakes.
I certainly don't mind receiving less then that but it is nice to know ahead of time. If someone was kind enough to do an SAE I don't care about the amount as long as it's not like one sunflower seed or something.
The botanical name I have not labeled on my packs. I will start though. I normally just copy my original info or send the original package.
Two questions though.
Should a person list as split pack is it's over 2 dozen seeds? I purposely shopped around for packs that had double or triple the amount offered by another company so I could trade with them as well.
As far as packaging, so far I have only used bubble mailers, but if its a single trade and the seeds look like they could probably take it, is a standard envelope and some bubble wrap around the pack fine?
Oh. my I forgot about seeds on the tape -- LOL! Yes, that's real good one.
Gram, DG doesn't have anything about sending SASBE's for seed in the FAQ. I told somebody to send a SASBE for seed and well, she didn't. I figure she didn't really know what it was, so I went to the FAQ and there is nothing there. Not in B&W, I mean, step by step.
http://davesgarden.com/tools/trading_primer/3/
I'm glad ya'll posted this thread, cause now I'll know what I should do.
I just never minded if I only got a few vine or bush seeds, like morning glory bush. I only got about 5 one time, but I was thrilled to get those and figured at least 2 or 3 would make it. I didn't realize I was supposed to send so many of that kind. Also I got begonia seed the other day and there weren't many, but I know how hard those little devils are to harvest.
So, is there a difference in things like that or should it always be 20 or more? Even impatients and petunia seeds are so hard to get off the plant.
Everyone who has traded with me has probably got a hit out on me.
I understand about the cleaning too, but how in the world do you clean those itsy bitsy seed, like cockscomb and coleus? The more I try to get all the chaff off of them, the more I lose, so mine do have some chaff, but you can see all those little black seeds. I know ya'll have to have a secret.
By the way, Tuink, your trades are always perfect. I got those verbena seeds and that's one of those that are so little I don't know how you did it.
If any of you haven't traded with Tuink, she has everything!!
There are a lot of new people like me, and please remember, the only way we know is if people tell us. I haven't learned my way around the site enough to find all the info and stuff
Suzy, there's a whole article on the schedule at the end of Feb. (by yours truly) with etiquette suggestions and step by step tips on how to respond to seed for SASBE offers.
There are lots of good tips on this thread already!
Seeds stuck to tape are a pet peeve of mine, also. I don't mine home-made paper seed packets, but those fold-over tabs on the designs are there for a purpose -- use them!
Sharpie marker is not as permanent on plastic seed baggies as you think.
Communication before & during a trade is key. As Illoquin said, knowing ahead of time is seeds are limited in number, if there's chaff, etc., can prevent problems. And if there's any delay in getting seeds out -- send a Dmail! It's embarrassing to admit that for whatever reason seeds are still not on their way, and I've had a couple of really long delays, but I figure that as long as I let people know I hadn't forgotten about the trade they'll (hopefully) know that I will eventually come through. (Mostly, I'm pretty prompt, and that helps too.)
Not putting the DG name or what the sase is for has caused me probs in the past. More than once I've had to input the zip code to find what DG'ers lived there then backtrack to the thread or d mail to find out what is wanted.
Anne
Anne, I think I must have repeated "put your DG name" about 3 different places in my "how to respond to a SASBE offer" article... If you have that information, you can figure out pretty much everything else! (I checked the date, and it's on the schedule for Feb. 21... hopefully in time for some of this year's big seed box clean-out SASBE offers.)
I think it's similarly important to put your DG name on all your trade packets. Any question somebody might have about the plant or about the seed... they know who to ask. I also put my name on my seeds because I want feedback. It's really useful to me to know if something grew out true, or if one of my often-recommended favorites did well for somebody in another part of the country
Critter, the DG FAQ (Trading Primer) needs to be updated on this subject, too. I couldn't find where it addressed the SASBE at all.
http://davesgarden.com/tools/trading_primer/3/
I just want to say that as a NEWBIE I am glad I haven't split any of the seeds up that were shared with me! LOL However, the thought had crossed my mind, but then again, I haven't done much trading either. If I have had seeds that I knew I wouldn't use and someone wanted them, I made sure that they were aware that they came from trade and were not from my own 'stash'. Although, as a newbie, I don't have my own 'stash' yet either! :)
I didn't mean to sound snotty, Misty, (but I know I do a lot of times LOL!) and in fact one of my very favorite people, Seandor, likes to sow her packs with as many seeds as she'll need plants of, and then trade them off....trade or swap or give away, whatever she feels like doing.
It's just that somebody like Ansonfan and LeBug who have been around a long while, have trade packs that are STUFFED full of seed(because they have the plants in their gardens) and the new people have 15 seeds.
Who would you rather trade with? (not talking to anyone specifically, just who would you rather trade with?)
Suzy
LOL Suzy, I didn't take it as snotty! :) Those little seedlings you have right now wasn't from any seed of mine, but from a trade that was sent to me. :) Now that I am learning, I should be able to collect a lot of my own seeds this year, and I will be SO happy to do that!!! :)
I have traded with both Seander and Ansonfan. You are right, they load those babies up!! I know what you mean Misty, I don't have a lot to trade either, because this is the first year I've saved any, but next year I'll be out trying to get their seeds before they even bloom
Ah, that's another conversation, knowing what is a seed and what isn't. I have made so many mistakes that it's embarassing to even bring it up.
Let me just say that 89% of my seed saving troubles are in the Aster (Asteraceae) Family...which includes all the daisy shaped flowers.
The other 10% is sterile, or nearly sterile, hybrids, which would include the things you and I both want: plants that we'd have to pay big money for otherwise. Like The Blooms series that Bluestone carries or the plants P. Allen Smith recommends for his containers.
For me, it's always worth a chance that I might get something cool, but I worry about seed I collect that I swap or trade away. That someone will be disappointed that their cool seed doesn't germinate, or it takes 1000 seeds to get a single seedling.
I know, I bet everyone worries about that. I planted a tray of marigolds last year and only 1 little marigold came up. These were seeds I bought, so ya just never know. One good thing, usually the seeds we get in trades here are usually from the year before, I think some of the ones we buy are old anyway.
I think Suzy has a point with the aster & sterility, buit realisically the person you are trading with should be looking at the PF and all of the notes B4 they trade and a lot of them say it so usually you know if you are taking a gamble. Truthfully, if I had ever sent anyone something that wasn't seed or didn't produce, if they let me know I would do what I could to make it right...
Misty-if you do have leftover seeds and want to trade them, when you put them on your tradelist, just note that they are from a trade to if anyone is intersted they know it up front-like I said earlier it is all about communication & honesty-that is what keeps this site going, we can pretty much trust each other so as to know we aren't going to get the shaft-well most of the time I have 2 "turd traders", but considering I have done over 60 trades in my short time here, not too bad of a ratio!!
It's perfectly fine to share or trade leftover commercial or trade packs, as long as you're clear about it. I'd rather trade with whoever has seed I want... and if somebody has anything I can use, I'll usually do trade rather than postage... tons of seed from one person, fewer from another, but people send what they can and it all works out.
On the other hand, it's not acceptable to trade or SASBE for seeds just to use them for "fodder" for further trades. There's a big difference between seeing that somebody is searching for red & yellow columbines, realizing I have some in my stash from a previous trade, and offering to share... and jumping on every columbine SASBE offer I can find, thinking that I will be able to trade the seeds later for what I really want.
Seeing all the seed you've sent to somebody immediately offered around again like a Christmas fruitcake doesn't give you a warm fuzzy feeling. This also happens really rarely here... I think most traders "get it," and DG is pretty self policing...
WOW, that is good to know about the Aster's! I have some I planted last year and was hoping to get lots of seeds to share from them. So at least now I know to forewarn people there is a possibility of them not doing what they should. :(
I'm glad you put the part about getting them for yourselfas opposed to using them to trade You probably won't have too much trouble with those of us who haven't done this long. We hoard every seed we get and usually go and just look at them just to make sure some seed stealin" ghome or something hasn't gotten them. So we sure wouldn't want to send them away.
What about someone sending you old seeds. Is there anyway to tell if they've been sitting forever?
Gee Isure hope I'm not one of the turds!!! ha ha. (I probably am, although I probably send enough, I haven't been putting all the infor you need on them. So, I've made a list in my computer with how to grow them and when I need to send a trade, I can print it out and put in the envy or on the outside of it. Will that help all you guys who actually KNOW the latin?
The problem I have run into is seeds that are packaged in tiny packages that I cannot get my fingers into and the writing on them is so small I need a magnifying glass to read the info, and I'm not sight impared! The next larger envelopes are not much more expensive and would greatly help those of us that find this very frustrating. I package my seeds in the same way I would want to receive them out of courtesy to others. I keep a list of the members who send seeds in these tiny envelopes and will not trade with them again because of this. When I joined I read then asked what the proper way to send seeds was, and I thank those members that taught me well.
Kathy
This message was edited Feb 9, 2008 12:50 PM
I print out most of my seed packet labels and put slips inside the 1x2" clear plastic zip-top baggies with my seeds. Even when I have a lot of information I want to include, I do not go smaller than 11 pt. Arial narrow for the description, and I always use 12 or 14 pt. font for the name.
If you don't know the Latin name, you can look it up in PlantFiles and include it on your packet. For things like Marigolds, Columbines, Tomatoes, Peppers, Basil... there's not much confusion. But you'd be surprised by how many different plants might have the same common name, or how many other common names your plant could have in other parts of the country... Latin names save a lot of confusion!
If there's no Latin name on the packet but there's a DG name of the person who sent the seed, then at least I can Dmail them and say, hey, those "Chinese Lantern" seeds of yours... did you mean this plant (insert PF link) or this one (insert PF link)?
Okay, I'm doing something right . I type labels for the outside of the seed with as much info as I can with a 14 font. Then I also put a little sheet inside with other stuff (what I know) I use vellum paper for the inside so it doesn't take away from the seed room
Did I do good? Even if I didn't, please don't tell me. It was a lot of work.!!! ha ha (no, really, tell me. I'll cry allday, but I'll get over it.
My cat is helping me type. So hope this is readable
Thanks so much this is all good information, and I am sure I have made a few mistakes in the past few months of trading. Fairy I do hope I am not one of your t's :-))
I thought I had read a trade primer along the way that stated 25 seeds was a standard trade for normal sized seeds, and more if the seeds are tiny like poppies. That is what I have been following, although I see some swap hostesses spell that out for everyone at the beginning of a swap and then participants note if seed counts are lower for any seed packs they are offering.
Two things have made it tricky to use / or get good use out of seeds I have received:
-Felt pen used to label the seeds on the exterior of plastic ziplocs, this seems to rub off sometimes and you don't know which kind of seed is enclosed. And being newer to growing from seed it can take a long time on line to try and identify what the seed might be.
-Little origami packages talented people put together without tape, or other packages that can come open in a swap and many of the seeds are lost.
how in the world do you count those little bitty ones like Cockscomb. I just have to eyeball those and try and put plenty. I'd probably kill my self if I had to count those things, so I've just kind of been following what other traders do.
The small size are a teaspoon or how ever many. I had tabacco seeds and I problably gave out a 1000 seeds a shot. LOL. no idea how many since they were so small.
Lorraine, sounds to me as though you're doing just fine!
I portion out seeds depending in part on what I've got on hand. I've been bagging & tagging basils this past week... If I had about a tablespoon of seed, I put a scant 1/8 teaspoon in each pack (at least 200 seeds), making 24 packs to share with some left for me. If I had only a teaspoon or two of seed, I put half that much, maybe even a little less... but 100 'Cinnamon' basil seeds are still more than enough for most people's purposes. When I'm "out" of trade seeds, I'll share from my stash, but I'll just say right up front that I'm only sending 5 or 15 seeds.
Lorraine-I have never traded with you-so no you aren't a turd. BTW, if you let the celosia dry out completely & shake it(you can out it in a baggie 1st , I ususlay just do it on a paper towel), the seeds should fall right off.
I ususally just print the packages off from here-are those ones to smal?? Should I not use them??
For small seeds to be truthful, I just make sure the tip of my finger is moist & dip it in-I figure 2 fingers worth is AT LEAST 25 seeds.
Critter-I was talking about the seeds I have left from trades-please don't think I would be sneaky enough to trade just to offer to someone else. It jsut seems that I never need all the seeds that I get in a trade and want the others to go to good homes where they can be loved to and not feel left out!!
Fairy, I don't think anyone on this thread has been talking about trading just to get seeds to "trade up" with... I was using that as an extreme example... I've seen it happen on DG, but not often, and as I said, such traders don't last long.
I try to pass along extra seeds, also!
I make some of my sifters. It is really easy if you have aluminum foil and a toothpick.
You can poke the hole as small or large as you need to let the seeds fall through and capture the chaff. I just put the aluminum foil over a jar funnel like this one used for filling canning jars, or you can even use round biscuit cutters...anything with an opening on the top and the bottom. Just cover with that aluminum foil and poke your holes the size you find is correct for just allowing the little seed to fall through. These work great on tiny round seeds. I just shake over a piece of white paper towel. If I still see chaff in amongst my seeds, I just sift them through another sifter with small holes. Just be sure and poke the holes from the side the seeds sift from.
Here is one of my homemade tiny seed sifters I made.
Nana3
This message was edited Feb 9, 2008 6:35 PM
