the desperately seeking thread was kinda long, so... here is a new one!
People have encouraged me greatly, and better yet, shared their stories and encouraged each other.
So please do continue...
Anyone got something to say?
(cause you know i do!)
So, my new rant, or:
Discouragement of the Day:
i have completed 4 semesters of spanish, but i wanted to continue, and hopefully learn to speak better, so i signed up for conversation.
The 1st class wasTuesday, and i felt frustrated and lost, but i chalked it up to jet lag, lack of sleep, and the fact that this professor speaks Castillian spanish, and i have never had a teacher from Spain. But, i e-mailed her yesterday to ask if she thought i was at an advanced enough level for this class (which i ought to be, since i was one of the top people in my spanish 4 class). i said that it was very difficult for me to think of words quickly enough to say them. Her response was, "Which class are you in?"
There are only 11 students in the class with a capacity of 22, (because most students are thrilled to make it through 4 semesters of foriegn lang. and do NOT want any more). One is from Colombia, 1 grew up w/relatives who spoke it, one spent a bunch of time in spanish speaking countries, one girl's fiancé is a translator in the Army, and one guy is just super-fluent, i don't know why. So she converses with them, at top speed, and the rest of us try to follow along. i literally spoke ONE word out loud today.
i spoke with her about my concerns after class (and that i am not alone, i talked with 2 other students who feel similarly lost), and she said, "Well, that is what this class is." When i mentioned that some of the other students had been speaking spanish for many years, she said, "No no no, only one is a native speaker. The others are just good learners." i pointed out that i had gotten an A+ in SPA 4 (and i hate saying that), and she said, "well, your other classes should have prepared you for this."
So, i will NOT be continuing with her class, i am not sure whether i am more upset and frustrated that i won't be taking spanish, at the suggestion that my totally excellent former SPA professor was lacking, or at the implication that i am not a good learner and therefore inadequate...
*
I've always wanted to learn Spanish...my hat's off to you for even doing 4 years.
How about a different school and or teacher?? Some teachers are just there for the pay check, especially the ones who leave half the class behind.
Maybe you've come to a point at which you have to determine in what capacity you want to use the Spanish. In a specialized work environment such a translator or as an asset in a work environment such as govt., health or business. Many employers who deal with foreign countries send their valued employees to language schools at company cost. These schools are chosen by the employer for the results that the employer has determined are most beneficial to the company. Maybe consider taking a test for court translator...some way to measure the marketability of your skills will give you a bearing to your goal, assuming you want to use this skill in a work environment.
The college may simply not emphasize language after a certain level, as you said the crowd keeps thinning out as you climb upwards. Unfortunately college is also a business and they would be hesitant to invest in the advanced curriculum if there is no demand for it. ☺
Watch Spanish tv. What about Rosetta Stone? You can skip past the beginning. No Spanish friends? My wife is fluent from childhood. Forget that prof, but I would complain about her rudeness.
threeg - just 4 semesters, not 4 years. (and actually i did so well in 2 that i skipped right past 3 and into 4 in order to stay with the same professor.)
pixie - how right you are. i've been fortunate enough to have some fantastic teachers, but i haven't missed out on my share of the other kind. it annoys me because i am a good student, who works really hard. Most teachers love having me in their classes! i am willing to say i don't get something, and if that is the case usually there are other students not getting it either - they just don't like to speak up.
WC, i know that i am not nearly good enough for it to be a marketable skill - probably never will be. it does help if you start at an early age, or at least not at, say, 35. i just enjoy learning this more than just about any other subject i have studied. But speaking it is my weakest point...
i just want to be in an environment where i can keep using it and improving - i know that it fades quickly if you don't keep in practice.
i do watch spanish TV - and listen to radio - and have some other language CDs i like, but to practice actually talking with other people is what i need. The words sound great in my head, but geez - what comes out doesn't quite sound the same...
Amy - have you considered that the problem might be the teacher and not you?? Most teachers geer the class toward the students and if she can't she might lose her whole class. And, there are teachers out there, unfortunately that can't teach - they know the subject matter but can't convey it to the students. Eleanor
This class is at Yale?
It looks like you live in New Haven, Amethystsm . . . were you going to continuing ed at a local college? See what other colleges are offering.
And you should certainly write a letter to the Chair of the department and to the Dean.
Michaela.
I think I can relate, in a way, to how the teacher prefers the "fluent" students. Years ago, when I lived in Germany, I took a beginner's class in Frankfurt. There were students there from all over the world. (One Middle Easterner asked me to get married just so he could live in the U.S.!)
In a class of about 20, there were only 2 English-speaking students. The (young, handsome, blonde) teacher always loved to converse with us in English and tell of his escapades during his U.S. visits (like getting a Pinto for a rental car!). I always felt bad for the other students because they didn't know what the heck was going on.
Amy - it's the teacher, not you. As a person who used to teach adults, and worked with others who taught adults - I can tell you that she's showing signs of not wanting to put much effort into the "teaching" part and seems to be simply enjoying the ability to speak with folks who are already fluent. Drop the class (ESPECIALLY if you can get a refund, or a transfer) and find something more rewarding to do with your time. If you really want to pick up the language fluently, you may want to consider doing some volunteer work that would put you in daily/direct contact with native speakers. I have found that whenever I wanted to try to speak a different language those folks who spoke it as a native tongue were (for me Italian and Spanish) pleasantly surprised that I would make the effort, and gracious in helping me. Life's too short to deal with people who are settled into their tenure so much they're growing moss around their feet.....
Good suggestions, dyad57
LOL Seandor - I was thinking the same thing about your suggestion of writing to the Chair/Dean!! No teacher should get away with that type of behavior.
o heavens no, not Yale. DH teaches at SCSU. i get tuition waivers to take classes. (Why i went back to school.)
i think this teacher is an adjunct.
thank you for the encouragement...
i really do know that there is no way anyone who has only taken spanish at SCSU is prepared for that class, and that it isn't my fault - but it is so frustrating, nonetheless.
oh Amy, go ahead and admit it's not just frustrating - it's a waste of your time and a pain in the hooey!!!
Primrose - that is too funny! My first car was a Pinto - that guy obviously didn't know the culture as well as he "knew" the language!
It's always a pity to see a teacher in front of a class who suffers from "Expert-itis" - they want to show off how much they know rather than bother to teach anything. I remember a workshop I went to (actually walked out of half way through) where the instructor spent most of the time telling us how qualified he was to teach, what he'd published, who he knew - it was like a Brag-a-thon.
Amy - you might be able to effect whether the teacher is hired again if they are an adjunct and have not been teaching in the system for very long. The thing is - the less students in the class - the less work the teacher has to do. Not fair - but true.
I think it is often difficult for students to speak up. My husband was treated appallingly by an English instructor, primarily because he actually knew much of the material and the instructor was used to teaching typical 18-21 year old undergrads who could never question her knowledge base.
My Dave is the master of discretion, and just sat quietly at the back of the class, not seeking attention, but the instruction was UNBELIEVABLE! She once interrupted his presentation, loudly demanding him to explain why he "insisted" on mispronouncing a character's name. My Dave was giving the name the French pronounciation, as in Mrs. Touchette (Too shet).
She was sooo unbelieveable that when DH signed up for another course with her, she refused to teach him. As it happens, the Chair of the department is also My Dave's advisor, and he told Dave to write a letter to himself and the Dean, because without something in writing, there was little that could be done against the instructor.
Dryad - Love the terminology!
Welcome to the Brag-a-thon for Expert-itis. Somewhere there must be a cure!
i had a video production teacher who on the 1st day of class handed out a resume/list of credits that was longer than the syllabus.
She spent more time talking about it too.
Possibly because she didn't actually know much about the program she was hired to teach. She also laughed at me one day in class. At an "incorrect" answer. i was over her for good at that point. (But she was an "emergency appointment." Then again, so was my DH...)
The pity of it is, for those of us who were/are in that field (I was a manager of corporate training dept's) the term "Exper-itis" is a VERY common phrase. Tells you how frequently those types end up in front of classes. And it's so very frustrating for those of us who really do love to teach, as it gives the profession a rotten image and makes us the target of jokes (and teaches the students that it's OK to tune out the instructor). I truly detest those who go into teaching because it's easier to stand in front of a room of people and blather. If their resume is so long it beggars the syllabus you've gotta wonder why they aren't still "out there" doing that!
Write the letter of complaint in perfect Spanish!
Amy sounds like the teacher needs a spanking .... can we say full of ourself?.... and just remember those who really can not do... teach
I know not all teachers are like that... but this one sounds like she is that way
If you can, get Rosetta Stone, it compares what you say electronically/ graphically to the correct pronunciation and in as much, can help guide you to refine you diction. ☺
Yes, I've heard great things about it and mentioned it above. I wonder if they have a kids version too. I have to check it out.
It's very good, I have access to it via my job, I dont know about a kids' version but it would be great for them... ☺
Rosetta Stone is highly regarded in the home school arena, also.
Sue, They have an arena for home schoolers?
Amy, That is a shame. A student who wants to learn for learning's sake is generally a dream come true for a teacher. Does anyone else offer the course?
Well, i had intended originally to take a similar but different course at CCSU, but i decided to stay closer to home.
because...
After much thought, i had decided to "discontinue" taking classes this semester, and to look for work instead. (In spite of the fact that just about EVERYONE wants me to stay in school.) It sounds like it would be easy to look for work while taking classes, but that has not been happening for me. i haven't been happy as a student for some time, yet i have been using school as a safety net - it is the easy road - providing a wonderful excuse for not getting on with my life.
It might sound silly, but i keep thinking of people who stay in a relationship until they have found their next one, instead of just ending it once they know it isn't right. So, i decided to break up with college for now at least. Perhaps there will be a reconciliation somewhere down the road. Or maybe we can be "just friends"?
Now i am looking into diving into that CCSU class late (the last day of add/drop). But driving up there for only one class adds up to more driving than class time. However, one bonus thing about CCSU, nothing there counts in my GPA at SCSU - just as a transfer credit - so even if i withdraw, it won't really matter... But i am torn about taking one class - do i need to make a clean break? Am i hanging on to the corner of that net? Was the disaster of the SCSU class a (huge neon) sign to stay away from school?
Amy:
1. The job of a teacher is to TEACH - to communicate a body of knowledge in such a way that the recipients can receive/digest/use it. Not everyone learns or takes in information the same way: a good teacher understands this & seeks ways to communicate to ALL students involved.
2. I do not believe that immersion in a language works well for everyone. A child learns the native tongue by repetition/demonstration/modeling. Children generally don't think things through in a complex fashion - they accept what they hear & see. The ability to hear sound & recognize patterns is helpful as an adult. But most adults automatically think on a higher level due to having a broader vocabulary & the ability to conceptualize. Your thinking process is more complex & layered, so there is an attempt to transfer your thinking into the language that is foreign. This is overcome by use of the language until you start to "think" in it.
3. I worked in Brazil in the 70's as a supervisor for a chain of English Language Schools.
I saw firsthand there is no "one-size-fits-all" method. I lived this too, as I had taught myself Portuguese through the use of books which were grammar-based. This was good for learning to identify the visual, decoding patterns (reading) & understanding the logic to the language, but failed in the conversational sense. I had a dictionary that provided the spelled-out sound of each word in Portuguese, which enabled me to "hear" the language when it was spoken.
Two things happened that improved my learning curve: I stayed with friends that had young daughters - one, a toddler, just learning to speak in sentences. This is when I realized that it was easier for ME to learn to speak the language as a child would. I used cartoons/comics/kid's books/other childrens' conversations - in short, I hung out with little kids! (And they don't judge. Rather, they were curious about what we called common items in english.)
The other was the use of music: as a supervisor watching some of the teenagers struggle, I decided to intervene OUTSIDE of my workplace. I organized a weekly outing for the teens. We went to a different house each saturday, and they would bring their favourite american/english rock albums (usually Beatles or Stones), play an assortment of songs and I would transcribe & translate. The rules were simple: I had to speak Portuguese/they had to correct me; and, if someone did not grasp something, we talked about it in Portuguese so they could understand.
Another thing - most languages use their mouths differently to produce sounds other than what is typical of English. - I do believe this is a necessary to learn, as it engages movement, auditory & spoken sound. It was fun & educational for all.
I saw the lights turn on in these teens - language is another form of music, if you will. When concepts are explained, the understanding of how things are phrased will fuse with the individual components (words).
Sorry to be so long-winded - I could not help but react to this "teacher" you experienced. Wishing you the very best, and please do not give up! =:0)
Amy, I love your analogy! Friends with benefits??
Katye - you expressed that extremely well. Far too many teachers forget that their primary job is to expand the pupil's knowledge base, and make it relevant as well.
Amy, you may be on to something there. Perhaps it IS time for you to take a break, sort of a vacation, from school. Perhaps look on it as a reward for sticking with school - take some time to "play" with the things you've not had time for because of school. That way if/when you decide to go back you'll be refreshed. I think the fact that you're questioning that and willing to consider it is a very healthy thing to do.
My son, who is 21 and a 4th year student is taking a sociology class, and the teacher also wrote the required book for the class. My son thought it was a bit expensive to pay $75 for a thin paperback book.
There are worksheets in the book for homework, and the teacher told the kids she would only accept homework from the worksheets. My son typed out all the questions and answers - and she would not allow him to turn it in - said it had to be the worksheet from out of the book.
Then the kids couldn't re-sell the book, and everyone taking the class would have to buy a new book.
My son went to the Dean, and now the teacher must allow photocopied worksheets from the students.
I was proud of him.
Way to go!! It's a pity that teachers have to subsidize their income by writing their own texts, but criminal that the colleges allow this behavior to get so out of control.
that really is a crime
I would make a clean break Amy, focus you energy on a job first, and then come back after you've settled into a job for awhile by taking night courses after work if you can. Sounds like that 'red neon light' was a revelation, what does your 'gut' feeling tell you? A job may also help your self-esteem and open new & unexpected opportunities for you. Some people go to school all their lives and never realize their full potential. You may already know the answers, but it's scary out there!
My DW worked in a hospital as an administrative assistant for 10 years. Then she took night business classes after work for 2 yrs and graduated in the top 3 of her class, then got a job in the financial world. She now works in Manhattan for a top company with her own office, holds several licenses from the SEC and travels all over the world, you have to be an investor with a minimum of $200 million to invest before your call is directed to her, (no wonder I always get put on hold). She's been in her new field now for 12yrs & loves it!
You never know what life holds for you unless you get out there, often you start out going someplace and end up in another. It won’t be easy and you take a lot of 'bumps and bruises'. But when you accomplish something, you really get a good sense of self satisfaction and it's yours to keep!
- One note on that teacher from me… I went to 2 major colleges in NYC in the '70s; Believe it or not, she was NICE compared to some of the ones I got! LOL! ☺
Dave - you should see the fights that go on in that arena! Christian vs. non-Christian, unschooling vs. internet schooling, etc.. Actually, the best thing about HSing is that you can choose your own hours and, until high school level, it only takes about 3 hours a day - with no homework!
I do know there is a lot of controversy and, at least where I am, the majority of HS kids do it for religous reasons.
My neice HSed her kids for plain old disappointment with the school. They have all done well.
Amy - don't consider the class as a disaster. Thinking like that will just get you down in the dumps. Consider that another window of opportunity is opening. It doesn't matter that everyone else wants you to stay in school - do what makes you happy!! Whatever decision you make, I'm sure will be the right one for you. You need to weigh the pros and cons and if leaving school and getting a job will make you happier then do it. Eleanor
p.s. - don't you just love how we can give advice to other people but then can't make our own decisions!!! LOL At least that's me - I can never decide which way to go at the fork in the road!!
The rules were simple: I had to speak Portuguese/they had to correct me; and, if someone did not grasp something, we talked about it in Portuguese so they could understand.
