Patron Saint of Gardeners

In my truck, windows rolled up.

DH was consulting on a show Julie Andrews was directin a couple years ago, and i wen t to a rehearsal - it is SO STRANGE to hear that voice (speaking, but still...!) in person from a few rows away. She just looked like a regular director - baseball cap, bi button-down shirt and jeans - but then you hear THAT voice, and whoa.
i am not even a big fan, but still it was pretty great!

Never, I was banned from doing anything but mouth the words in my Jr High school church choir, then I was asked not (forbidden) to join the senior high choir which sung in front of the congregation. Heaven forbid! No wonder I abandoned organized religion. They treated me worse than a money changer at the temple. We are talking about a huge choir in large wealthy Presbyterian church with lots of bankers that were the trustees of the church. I was crushed. I still can't sing one good note, but I do just to annoy the heavens.

When my DM dies I plan on filling this same sanctuary with bagpipers, which she loves and a choir that will sing all her favorites with me doing a little singing along too. My musical vengeance. My DM isn't such a great singer either and approves this message! Patti

This message was edited Dec 20, 2007 11:18 AM

Who's the patron saint of singing??

Well, Patti, the Bible does say to "make a joyful noise unto the Lord" - it doesn't say that the noise has to be in key!

(Hey, Victor, I'm back!)

Welcome back Sue!

Who's that tracking mud into the church?

Could have been used as a collection plate too!

LOL!

I think St. Cecelia is the patron saint of singers...(sp?)

Not St. Sinatra??!

Is St. Cecilia the patron saint of music?

Yes.

I was wondering why St. Fiacre would be the patron saint of venerial disease....but I looked it up and it was because he grew herbs to relieve the afflictions.

Hmmmmm ....
The things you learn in this Forum!

Nobody should be prohibited from participating in music, ever. Music is... well it's the rhythm of your body, it's the pulse of making joyful noises together. Patti, know that the problem was not yours, but your church choir director's! A good choir director (looking around modestly) can make anyone sound good. xx, Carrie

You could make me sound good? Definitely come to the May sleep-over, Carrie - you could help us carry a tune while we plant!

i was kicked out of my grade school band - in 4th grade - for having no talent. no one could ever remember that happening to anyone else.

OMG Amy - why didn't they give you the triangles?

That's just so WRONG !!! You can always sing in the car, right?

My brother and I used to make my younger sister practice her recorder in the closet. It was THAT annoying!

My daughter teaches music at home. Her very sweet husband was driven nuts by the "noise" so he put up lovely French Doors to block the noise. So far, so good.

When my sister started to play, I immediately empathized with the Grinch: 'Oh the noise! Noise! Noise! Noise! Noise!'

Hearing that someone is not allowed to participate in music makes me #@*&^$#@^&*!!!!!!! Music is for fun unless you are a professional and make a living from your talent. I taught music in an elementary school for over 39 years and I encouraged all to join in! I remember a one-on-one aid telling me that her autistic charge did not participate because the previous teacher did not bother with him. My reply to her was "wanna make a bet". I soon had that child responding to music and he had so much fun it brought tears to the aid's eyes. he used to just sit in music with his head in the aid's lap and go into his own world. Eleanor

I agree Eleanor and was just playing. However, my sister's playing WAS painful. Even the cat sought auditory shelter!

Hear, hear. There is a whole field of music therapy in fact.

My husband, a brass player, says he cannot think of any reason it would be any more difficult for Julie Andrews / Maria von Trapp to be unable to sing any note, high or low, in the Alps or anywhere else. Julie Andrews, of course, didn't REALLY sing in the Alps. If you can play those Alpen horns, any wind instrument in fact, you can sing, heck, if you can breathe, you can sing! High or low, makes no difference. Sopranos sing high because that's the way their bodies are built.

Yes, Michaela, I could make you sing, and force you to enjoy it, too! LOL! xx, Carrie

My daughter's second degree is in Music Therapy.

Years ago she was working with an almost three year old Autistic girl. She had never spoken a word and only responded to two words - her name and "No" (isn't that too sad?). The child, as is typical, said nothing week after week. At Christmas time my daughter played "Jingle Bells" among other songs. More time went by and it was Easter so my daughter played "Here Comes Peter Cottontail". The child threw a fit and teachers are taught they must not notice the fit and to keep on playing, which she did. After about 20 minutes of screaming the child came over, tugged on my daughter's sleeve and looked up at Kathleen as she said "Jingle Bells". That's what they call the "breakthrough" and from that point the child is more likely to work with the teachers.

For Christmas, a few years ago, I tea stained a copy of the music to "Jingle Bells", framed it and gave it to her. We both stood there crying. The piece of music is over her piano where she teaches many children, with and without problems.

Therapists are not allowed to call the family to ask how the child is doing so we'll never know the outcome but my daughter was instrumental in the breakthrough.

If you think I'm very proud of my daughter you're right.

Wonderful story Pirl. Great timing for Christmas too.

Thank you, Victor.

Great story, pirl ! I'd be proud, too !

When I took piano lessons as a kid, everything was fine for about the first three months...until I had to practice SCALES. It drove everyone nuts, myself included.
Came home from school one day and the piano was in the GARAGE !!! LOL

It was actually much better that way for all concerned! Between babies crying, the TV, musical kids toys, the telephone ringing, the piano, and the cuckoo clock, our house sounded like "It's a Small World".

You are such a good tale teller, JD. I bet you'd love to have a video of just one of those days from long ago.

They are forever etched in my mind !

Does anyone remember those crib toys called a "Busy Box" ? It hooked on to the rails of the crib and had knobs and dials and things for the child to twist and turn...and they ALL made some sort of noise...WHAT WERE THEY THINKING ?????

They were thinking it was an instant free pass for the mother to get a week of rest at the local mental hospital.

I've never taken a single music ed course let alone music therapy but that seems so intuitive, when you hear about it. I guess if it were happening it would be scary and I'd be tempted to react.

A couple years ago - like three or four or five - we made a Christmas Album, the four of us. We started recording in September, we had mostly computer accompaniments that were our own arrangements with a few live instruments. For whatever reason, this odd little friend of DD#1's had come over that particular Saturday, and for whatever additional odd reason, her friend had brought her odd little sister, who was the same age as DD#2, although they had never met. Odd friend #1 and her sister we didn't know had not grown up singing. It was my job to turn them into choral singers for the afternoon. I don't think anything like that had ever happened to them before. (My kids are used to me.) 'Jingle Bells' went ok, and 'Rudolph the Red-Nosed reindeer' but then we did 'Bring a Torch, Jeanette, Isabella', which even my kids didn't know. So I taught all four kids how to sing it, and sing it well, with harp accompaniment, for our Christmas Album. Odd Friend #1 went on to spend several years in a locked-down psychiatric hospital for adolescents - I guess she's about 17 now, but we've stopped hearing from her. Her sister and DD#2 are both now at the same school that DD#1 and Odd Friend met at but they don't hang in the same crowd or acknowledge that they ever sang together.

Weird life, ain't it?

Right on sbout the busy box!

xx, Carrie

This message was edited Dec 22, 2007 9:41 PM

I always thought that if I bought lottery tickets and actually won, I would spend part of it taking voice lessons. But I think I am hopeless. Carrie, do you want a second challenge?

I love the idea of music therapy as well as art therapy, especially for the autistic and mentally challenged. I have a passion for outsider (Art Brut) but now wonder if there is the equivalent in Music? Is there someone recording it somewhere? I can't even imagine what it must sound like or if it is recognized as anything more than noise. I will let victor be the ultimate judge of De Noise.

Pirl, I can't wait to share your jingle bell story with a dear friend who has taught autistic children for years. The incredibly high rate of new cases being reported is beyond alarming.

I have heard about a new treatment being tested that sounds disgusting, but apparently worked remarkable well on a young teen who is autistic and has constant outburst until being treated in a new study that has the patient orally ingest porcine whip worm. The study was originally intended to test its effectiveness in the treatment of Crohn's disease . But the connection to autism alludes me. The boys father is astonished at the difference in his autistic son as is the son himself. His outburst have been calmed and much stronger interaction is happening. One of my DB and my DH sister both have crohn's so I am following these tests with interest. Patti

wow - hard to follow ingesting worms or the inspiring stories of music therapy!
Possibly part of my band problem was that they made me play french horn, which i hated, and was difficult to walk to school with (at age 8). i do remember "practicing" a little in the cafeteria after school one day, and the band teacher tearing in telling me to stop making such a racket - so not an auspicious start. i wanted to play flute, but all the pretty, popular girls did too, and they got picked, so it was me and my french horn.

I was an elementary vocal teacher so that was another thing that ruffled my feathers - you had to play an instrument that the band needed, not what you wanted!! Amy - I can see where lugging a French Horn around was kind of a turn-off but the band director is a %$#@*! He had no right (according to my teaching philosophy and ethics) to say that to a child. If you didn't have success with one (overly large instrument and difficult to play) he should have tried you on something else. I know a lot of people who tell me they can't sing because a music teacher told them they couldn't. I also know a young man who was told by an elementary music teacher that he could not sing and he is now on Broadway singing his heart out!! It was the music teacher who got him after me (I taught in kindergarten through second). I don't know what she was thinking cause he had a great voice when he was with me. I have to brag a little - I also have another student who is on Broadway and he sang "O Holy Night" last Christmas Eve and I was in awe!!! It was so beautiful! He was also a little "twerp" in his regular classroom but when I shut the door in the music room he became angelic and the music that came out of him was wonderful! We have a very dynamic high school teacher who shaped these two young voices and inspired them to go into music careers. I have lots of stories and memories of fun in the music room. I have to share one more about an autistic child that I had for quite a few years - until he was so big that I couldn't let him sit in my lap anymore!! We had been doing a scale song called "Ebeneezer Sneezer" and it was a phrase on each note. We were using boom whackers (tuned tubes of different lengths) and I had a child on each tube in this special ed. class. This one particular autistic child was on the first note and he pushed the other children out of the way and played the whole song mouthing the words the whole way. His aid immediately jumped up to stop him cause he was taking the other's turns away from them. I motioned to stop her cause I knew what was happening and then the aid started crying - he really had been soaking the music in. I think the special ed children that are helped by music is by far the more rewarding experience. Pirl - I'm sure your daughter knows the feeling and she is to be commended for her work. Music therapy really does work. Victor - I wasn't referring to you, I was talking about music teachers who just want the perfect students so they can have the perfect band, etc. I worked down in the "trenches" trying to find a way for each child to have success with music and then to have teachers in the older grades kill that joy! Eleanor
p.s. - Can you tell I was a little passionate about "my" students? I could talk back to any administrator (after i had some experience under my belt) and it was usually advocating for my program and my students. Didn't always win but I gave a good fight. I have lots of horror stories on that subject. Can you tell I hate administrators??

I am so tear-y eyed over these music stories and how children respond to music. I wish there were more instructors / administrators in the world like our lovely people here in NEG. Music teaches so much more than just music!!

On a side note, and speaking of school bands ...
I joined our high school's marching band simply because I wanted to torment another girl who was in the marching band at the time and who had recently stolen my boyfriend. I had no musical experience. I couldn't read notes. I didn't know which end was up when it came to an instrument. I ended up playing the glockenspiel in the marching band, and having the time of my life!

I went on to become part of a vocal group, took part in the school's choir, and after graduation, became part of a country band that toured Germany.

It still amazes me sometimes how my one act of vindictiveness changed the course of my life.

Patti - About ten or fifteen years ago the rate of Autism was one in 10,000. Now it's one in 150. People who haven't dealt with an autistic child do not realize they're on duty every moment the child is awake. Not just being in the kitchen or doing wash while the child is awake but being next to the child watching and trying to help. I do hope the new treatment is the answer.

Autism is not easy to deal with. On a sad note our school system did have an extremely severe case and the child was finally moved to a special school. He spent most of the day screaming and hurting other children even with a one-on-one aid. It was for the better all the way around - and he was finally able to get the type of help he needed and it was safer for the other children. He fell asleep on the floor in my room one day with his head in his aid's lap and we just left him there until he woke up later. He would just wear himself out screaming. Poor little guy!! Heart breaking for him and his family. Eleanor