I live in the wilderness so I must keep my chicks in a cage. (Bears, coons, gators, bobcats, etc) The cage is about 30ft x 30ft with a 20' high roof. There is small hole, heavy gage wire on the pen with an electric fence around the outside. We learned the hard way.
I went out one morning to feed the chicks and the side was torn out of the cage and all the chickens were dismembered. My neighbor thinks it was otters but I don't think they are strong enough to do that much damage.
Anyway- that's their history. That was the first disaster but clearly animal related.
The latest disaster:
We added on a beautiful hen house and we keep wood chips (feed store bought) and hay in there for bedding. Our chickens were healthy and laying good. In 3 days time 23 chickens died. There was nothing visibly wrong with them. We lost young and old. Over the following couple of days we lost a few more.
We shoveled out everything and got new bedding. It seemed to work but I don't know what could have done that. Someone says the shavings could have been from treated wood but I didn't think chickens ate the wood chips.
Any ideas what happened?
23 dead chickens for no apparent reason.
cyberageous, Chickens are extremely dumb animals (think dinosaur.... pea brain). They'll eat everything their owners toss in front of them whether or not it is healthy. They'll even make some owners believe that they actually like the junk food tossed into their feed pans.... especially so if they're just slightly hungry. Chances are the wood chips were poisonous. If it were me ...... I'd try to make a more accommodating chicken situation so the birds can graze on weeds .... provided you can watch them without opening the door for predators. Sounds like a raccoon got your first group. Raccoons can chew and claw into a structure with wire fencing........ no sweat. As long as you can keep them well fenced in the daytime and locked up tight at night ... your losses to predators should be minimal. Hawks in the East are kinda more of a problem than in the West ...... for who knows what reason.
for the preditor i'd say coon, fox or canine, possible bear something along those lines but it's hard to tell without knowing what they ripped though on the cage, how big the whole was, night or day and how the bodies where left.
what kind of shaveings was it? cedar is the only one i know of toxic to them. but powdery ones can hurt them also. chickens will eat most anything but they do have their limits and some things not good for them they won't eat but will taste it a time or 2 to make sure if it is good or not. some chickens are very dumb i must agree and will eat anything but not all of them. my silkies are the worst for that one they have no common sence,lol. and yes alot of times they eat the shaveings cause they are board or as they eat but if it is like pine it will not hurt them to eat it.
if it was bedding my guess would be mold from it getting wet or fungas and they had respitory problems from it. could have been the cold weather, poisoning, possible something contaminated the feed, many things might have caused it. sometimes signs are so little you don't see them. what do you store your feed in? have you brought in any new outside chickens, shown any or people who mabe brought something in on their shoes or clothes who normally are not around and have foul themselves?
since i'm a liceanced poultry tech my first sugestion is to get a nycropsy you can have a poultry tech take the bodies for testing or go to a state vet and as long as it is for disease control the dept of ag does not charge for it it is free. bodies have to get to them within 72 hours and not be frozen but if they are kept cold can be tested after that but may limit the info they can get from them. they will test the body samples and will need a live sample also and will test over a mths time. they will send you 3 reports of findings along the way and will send you the final results. it's the only real way to know for sure but if you can tell me anything else you may have noticed i can try to help you to narrow it down to help try to protect the ones left. 4 in 3 days is considered to many but 23 is definate high mortality rate something is definately not right.
silkie
cyberageous, There is one more critter that no one thinks about and that's a skunk. The way a skunk kills a chicken is by sucking the the blood out of it's neck just like a vampire and there's no visible evidence of what's been done. I found out the hard way by losing my only Polish hen and a friend of mine told me about skunks. They don't leave an odor, always strike at night and when they find a source such as yours they will return until all of your chickens are dead.
This message was edited Dec 15, 2007 10:42 AM
Ditto 1005. but let me add civetts. They are the spotted version of skunks. But skunks the same. Nocturnal blood suckers. And then there are weasels and minks. Frank
fchilders & gardener105, FWIW ..... Go back and read about a break-in and the 23 that perished in one night. A skunk can't chew or rip through a wire enclosure and would not kill 23 chickens at once. Civetts (I've heard of them) are from somewhere I've never lived. Wouldn't recognize one if I saw it. Don't know their size or strength either. Raccoons are able to chew and rip into a wire enclosure and enjoy killing a bunch of chickens in one evening. A guy I know lost 65 chickens in 1 night to a raccoon. Mink and weasels kill for fun but they aren't so strong as to be able to rip or chew into a strong wire enclosure. The fellow lives on the edge of the swamps in Florida. Even a bear would have been too big and clumsy allowing the chickens to escape through the hole it created. Raccoons are the GREAT and awful poultry killers in North America.
Photographer, I think you need to re-read it, it says "in 3 days time 23 chickens dead." That's an average of 6 birds a night. A family of skunks can be pretty distructive as well, and as I said before if they discover a source of food they will return until the source is exhausted.
gardener105, Sorry for the misread ... you are correct. In 3 nights ... I'd be leaning toward a group of skunks. A raccoon would have killed them all in one fell swoop.
photographer, That's alright, so many threads to read at a time we tend to misread once in a while!
rotfl, a skunk does NOT suck the blood out of a chicken like a vampire. it grabs it by the back of the neck to protect it's self from the chickens feet and beak and chomps down on it's neck to break it's neck with it's jaws or holds the neck while it severs it's spinal cord by shakeing the bird like a dog does a toy rope bone.
silkiechick, So why was I told this by a chicken farmer? And why would a skunk kill a chicken in such a way without eating it like any other carnivore? What would the purpose be in killing the chickens in the first place? Where did all the blood go? Animals don't kill animals for sport!
Ya'll are forgetting possums, too.
I really lost a lot of chicks due to possums this past summer/Spring. I kept finding headless chicks/chickens in my pen. Not a pretty picture!
One nite my wife came a'running hollering "possum, possum!"...a small one had gotten into our holding pen and in as short a time as two hours had decapitated 3 chicks and was going after its fourth when I treated it to a piece of lead (applied at high velocity).
They sure seem to like eating the heads and drinking the blood that oozes out of the chicks necks. Again, not a pretty site.
Cyber, sure hope you now have your chicks well-protected, regardless of what got to them.
And yes, regarding the mulch and the chickens dying over a few days time, it definitely sounds like they ingested something that slowly worked on them. (Rat poison, pesticides, etc work that way.)
Hope this is helpful.
Best,
Shoe
Horseshoe, Interesting story, but did you have to be so graphic about the headless chicks?
Whoops, sorry Gardener, I thought I had toned it down quite a bit.
Shoe
So why was I told this by a chicken farmer?- no clue but as a chicken farmer, poultry tech, hunter and trapper i can tell ya Definately Not true.
And why would a skunk kill a chicken in such a way without eating it like any other carnivore?- to save it for a meal later
What would the purpose be in killing the chickens in the first place?- for food, it is getting harder to find food now this time of year, save it for later for storage.
Where did all the blood go?- lol, um still in the chicken. just because an animal kills another doesn't mean there is gonna be blood. alot of times when an animal dies it gets absorbed into the organs and muscles it is still there it just bleeds out in other ways.
Animals don't kill animals for sport!- yes they do i have had many coon do it to my quails and chickens. they will rip off anything they can and pull through cages at whatever they can grab an leave parts, pieces and scatter headless bodies all over. they will do it and come back later till everyone of them is gone and never eat a one of them at the time so you know it's not because they are hungry and they are not out looking for the coon so there is no reason for the coon to attach them. they do it just to make a cache of food so why should any other animal be different? it's the wild it's survival of the fitest out there and reguardless our chooks are sitting ducks out there. chickens are a domesticated animal here the others all mentioned are not they are wildlife unfortunately our flocks rank bottom of the food chain that's why we have to do all that we can to protect them. sometimes though nomatter how hard ya try the buggers still get in but all ya can do is try your best to protect your babies it's really all any of us can do.
silkiechick, Well said! Thanks for th info! Google weasel and read what it says about what damage they can do in a henhouse.
This message was edited Dec 16, 2007 6:53 PM
silkiechick, I have been told and sorta believe that mink / weasels kill far more than they can consume. Some describe it as "for fun". I believe it is the same idea you suggested ...... "a cache of dead food", so that they can come back for an easy meal later. The idea of killing for fun is not something I can understand from mother nature. Kelly
Gardner105 & Kelly, then you don't want to see the video tapes i have of neighborhood dogs returning ONCE AGAIN to kill as many birds as they could catch. None were ever eaten, only caught, carried off a little way, laid down upon, then had their heads yanked up to break their necks. Then go and get another and do the same thing.
This may seem a gory thread, but just look at the title, whaddya think we're gonna talk about here?
Speaking of cruel killings, how about a greedy neighbor who baits chickens with poisoned feed? He is too mean to even be called animal-like.
Had my share of animal deaths in the last year and a half. Mostly part of the territory, but certainly more than i signed up for ;-(
tf
tf, Dogs are a totally different story. You can see the destruction with them.
As far as cruel killings, humans are the cruelest killers of all!! Trapping is one of the cruelest way of catching wild animals and sometimes domestic ones as well that weren't intended to be trapped.
We are supposed to be the SUPERIOR beings of all living things! I have yet to actually believe that because of all the cruelty that humans have inflicted on animals!
yep, mink, weasil, ermines, fisher, fox, possum even bear sometimes. they all do it. feril cats and dogs also do it too unfortunately. that's why here if an animal is destroying your crop or property as long as you can prove it and and save pics and evidence like the coon carcaus or whatever for 15 days and can show they did damage you can do something about it but different states have different laws. we are allowed here to shoot them or trap them to protect what is ours as long as it is not anything that is on an endangered species like a hawk or anything like that. killing your chickens is considered killing your food source and destroying your crop and property. here if we catch a skunk, possum or coon it has to be killed due to rabies so it can not be relocated and released.
a neighber killing your chickens is illegal and animal cruelty and that is so aweful i'm so sorry to hear that. a toxocology report would show if there was any poisons but they only show certain poisons unless you knew which to tell them to test for. if mine did that and i could prove it i would sue and make him pay for every one of them and for everything i was looseing due to each of them being gone.
trapping isn't inhumane it's the idiots that don't know how to use them correctly or don't care or have respect for the animals they are catching that are. those people should never touch a trap and are not called trappers or should ever go near one.
if they are used properly they will not catch a non target animal or if accidently caught wich sometimes does happen will only hold them there till the trapper checks the trap to be released unharmed. the best thing for a trapper is education both on how to use them and how to educate the public. trapping is an essential conservation tool. it helps curb popultion, disease, preditation and damage caused by wild animals.
silkiechick, I wasn't targeting you. If you felt that way I apologize. I've just heard stories of some so called trappers that don't check their traps on a daily basis and when they finally get aroud to it they have either captured the wrong type of animal or all that's left in the trap is an animals leg or in the instance that my parents came upon a beautiful bobcat way out in the woods that had been dragging the rock that the trap was attached to. My dad shot the cat and put him out of his misery, he followed the drag trail for a ways and finally turned back as he said it went on clear out of site, so the poor cat had been dragging it for miles! Those are the trappers I'm speaking of. Now in the state of OR it's illegal to trap with leg traps.
i totally agree with you, that makes me furious!! that's what i mean it's ignorance in idiots like that which makes it look bad on all of us. there is no reason for a trap to have a rock for a drag, i don't even understand that one. here they have to be checked within madatory every 36 hours at least once and we do at least min 2 rounds a day for us first light and evening if not more if we can. that isn't right for them to be left in them any longer than nesicerary(sp). what that person did was definately wrong, that poor bobcat, i'd of turned the tag into the game comission and had the guy fined for an illegal set and not checking the trap which is the very least of what he deserved for what he did to it. leg holds are legal here but jaws must be under 7.5 in, body grippers, cable restraints, snares and live traps are legal also but all have seasons except live traps they can be used anytime.
no worries, sorry if i sounded like i was biteing,lol. it's late i'm very tired and been snowed in a few days with 5 kid's. this crazy weather and all this holiday stress is just getting to me sorry if i sounded like i was looseing it there for a minute, rotfl.
well i'm off to bed finally got one more to get to sleep she can't sleep cause of the storm but hopefully will soon.
have a good night,
silkie
cyberageous, i hope you have figured out what happened to your dear birds...
yes, the nieghbor should be sued. i had/have all kinds of proof. when i called around, authorities kept referring to other agencies till i finally ended up with one who wa just going to charge him with misuse of a chemical! by then he knew i had turned him in, he could have lost his job if that was where he got the poison from. but he had a good cover, and that particular agency couldn't test for that chemical. and the two labs involved were far behind on more important cases so no necropsies. kso after a long delay, we finally got a little form letter saying no charges were being filed. that's when he said he would just shoot them all.
i just hate talking about it, what a nightmare! now next month i have to appear in small claims court for charges of $5,000.00 for chicken damages. it's funny most of the time, except i know who i am up against, such abully. no one else wants to take him on! i hope that changes after i beat him, i know he has done a lot of folks wrong...
after that i can sue him, if i am still up to it LOL, but in a higher court small claims won't take it.
at least no one died from eating my eggs. and we are very protective of them. we got them guineas and ducks and chinesse geese to hang out with, plus we have security cameras hooked up to surveillance monitors and tape recorders. those come in handy when watching your kids do their chores LOL, or seeing the nieghbors dog coming back again...
sounds like mean people come in trappers too.
we are so fortunate that we have never had that many die in such a short time. CYBER, what are your plans? WE use wood chips, but it is horse bedding, says on the bag nothing added. sometimes dog bedding is cedar or has add things that could pose a threat...
tf
silkie, I can understand your feelings, our daughter has 3 kids 6, 8 and 9 and when they're confined to the house because of the weather, I WON'T EVEN TALK TO HER ON THE PHONE! ROTFL!!!
All of the traps you mentioned are legal here too just not. Sounds like your laws are about the same there as here.
Oh, I forgot to mention, my dad got a picture of the cat before he shot him and my mom wrote the jerk a nasty note on a paper plate so when he finally got around to finding the cat he would know that he isn't the only one out in the woods.
Susan
good for your parents, Susan!
tf, Thanks. They still have the picture on their livingroom wall. He was a beautiful cat.
omg, it sounds like my neighbers that sued me for a mystery loose chicken that layed a blue egg under her car wheel. funny part is all mine where at a show i had proof, pics the whole 9 yards of it and still lost in small claims because i'm the only one with a poultry permit legally allowed to own them in town although others have them to. i refused to turn anyone else in,lol. she had a blue egg funny part is at the time i had no blue egg layers, rotfl and my coops are all key locked. judge said well i don't think she would make up something like that your the only one allowed to have them. till you can prove to me anyone else has them and give me names, guilty, how do i know you didn't sell the chicken after you found out you had to go to court. this town is so corupt it aint funny. i had to sell my whole flock start again and now i raise them again only outside of town at a friends house away from all the drama of worthless neighbers. i totally feel for ya!!
yep i got 5 kid's ages 3, 5, 7, 8 and 11 and a step-son comes here too who is 9. i'm stuck here in about 2 1/2 ft of snow and been hearing nothing but x-box and laughing for days since there has been no school and we can't go no where. i also have 18 cockatiels who keep sounding off while the kid's are carrying on i just need a break, rotfl. i love them dearly but i just want piece and quiet!! i got christmas stuff to get made and can't get nothing done....
I don't care what anyone says, I've seen cats kill for sport, and it isn't pretty. A cat can take out an entire flock in a few nights!
By flock I mean at least 25 in my case. Cats do the same as coons, takin the head and leaving the rest, or just killing and not eating anything.
ouch! i threaten my cats if they look cross ways at a chicken!
silkie, did the egg ruin her tire? or was it becasue your chickens were supposed to be caged?
yeah, this town is a racket too! but most people don't like him, just can't stand up to him. but someone printed out his criminal record and is informing the nieghborhood, esp those with kids. in the end, hopefully at least he won't harm or bully anyone else. he wants to move, but not till he gets every penny he can...
still no word on if it was the wood chips?
tf, I think silkie is pretty much snowed in and is probably experiencing a power outage. Haven't seen the weather news from there but last I heard it was going to be a real MESS!
I am also curious about the whole blue egg under the tire. What happened? What caused her to sue. People are just dumb aren't they!? I would have countersued for them stealing your chicken and forsing it to lay an egg outside of its nest. Then you could tell the judge 'As soon as they bring me proof that they didnt steal my chicken...then I will drop my countersue!'
I don't know...people who dont have chickens just dont understand I suppose.
I know a guy who was having problems with his mail carrier. THe guy would drive through his front yard to get to the mailbox that was on the street. Basically he would do a big U-turn instead of just turning around (it was the last house of his route I guess). Well these boys got so upset that he wouldn't stop after begging him...that they decided to take this rooster (whose nickname I wont mention in case children are reading), and they put him in the mailbox. They sat and waited for the mailman to come...spin around in their front lawn throwing chucks of grass in the air, and open the box. Just then the rooster (who had been in there for a while sleeping I think) was so startled that he flew into the car at the mailman! He drove off trying to get the chicken out.
Funny thing was that he sued the guys for attempted assault or something. They went to court...countersued for stealing their rooster! Remember...he drove off with the chicken...and the case was dismissed.
Anyway...that is my chicken story of the day. The rooster was fine by the way. He ended up at a neighbors who ended up keeping him to watch his flock.
Good for them and fantastic story!
hmmm, mayb ei should spy into my neighbors yard to see if any of my missing chickens ended up there??? LOL good story...
Ok...I think my mail lady must be on this site too. I got my mailbox run over just yesterday! She didn't even leave me a note! Hahahaha...
mcamden, You're a riot! ROTFL!!!
Thanks all for your concern! By this thread I see I am not the only one with chickie troubles.
No animals killed my chicks. The cage is even bear proof (learned the hard way). The wire is small gauge enough that a snake can't even get in. The outside is hot wired to boot plus no wire has been damaged. There was no visible damage to the dead chickens either. We think it might have been bad wood chips, altho I got them as animal bedding at the feed store. I will never go to that feed store again. Food wise- same thing...not that feed store anymore.
To clear things up- 16 chickens died the first day then a few more each day after that. We had even raked out the rest of that batch of wood chips. Our chickens must be kept in a cage. This is a bad environment with lots of predatory critters. I have 7 pit bulls but they are big babies and sleep in the house at night.
Whatever tore up the first batch was stronger than a man due to the heavy guage torn wire. This time, there is no physical damage. I assume I gave them something bad...feed or bedding.
I am still losing a chick here and there. Yesterday I lost a teenaged bantam. Same thing- didn't look sick then ker-plunk.
We recently bought it and a few others at a road-side seller. I guess that was a dumb move.
How many chickens do you have left? If you have many of them this could be one of those times you could splurge on having an avion vet examine one of the dead birds to see if they can come up with a cause of death. It may be something unrelated to anything you have done. I have heard of some people having minerals in their well water that killed their small animals.
I know if I had that many die and didnt know why...I would probably try to figure it out as soon as possible to try to avoid loosing any more if possible. Good luck!
Has anyone thoght of the Avian flu? Have you taken any of your chickens to the vet to have an autopsy done? I'm not trying to scare anyone, but it is supposed to be in the US. That's why I have mine penned now. We don't have it in Oregon yet, but the Wildlife Officials are saying that it will be here someday, it's just a matter of time.