Purple plum tree or purple leaf sand cherry?

Yet another question from the newbie to the zone :)

I see that purple leaf sand cherry is Prunus cistena and purple plum tree is Prunus cerasifera. OK.
But I have a plant whose tag reads Ciruela Cistena de Hojo Morada "purple plum tree" and upon searching I am just getting more and more confused.
What is it??
Are they one and the same?
And if so- I understand the failings of common names but a cherry is not a plum!!
Or is it?

Don't laugh at the beer bottle photo- I sent the husband out to take plant photos and this was his way of providing size comparison.

A plum is a cherry/Prunus though - see if this helps any:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prunus

Maybe it's wrong, but to me, any Prunus is a cherry in a generic sense.

This message was edited Nov 23, 2007 2:14 PM

So are they the same thing?
I'm still unsure of what I have.

That article lists Subgenus Prunus: plums and apricots.
Subgenus Cerasus: cherries


That would seem to indicate that a purple leaf sand cherry is really a plum.
Right?


This message was edited Nov 23, 2007 4:21 PM

Purple Sand Cherry's have small purple leaves all season, no green leaves. The leaves on your bush are too big for it to be a Sand Cherry.

Looks more like a Newport plum to me
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/89969/
they seem to get less borer than the cistena's do

let me see if I can shed a little light on this. Either that or I will confuse you even more.

OK - Prunus is a genus.

Prunus encompasses over 400+ species of Cherries, Peaches, Plums, Apricots, Almonds, et. al. plus numerous hybrids of each species.

See, there are FRUITING cherry trees (the kind you eat) and FLOWERING cherry trees ( the ones that are really pretty in the spring but nothing to eat). Same for all the others.
Now, back to the plum-cherry thingy. A Sand Cherry and a Purple Leaf Plum are kinda like identical twins. Tthey look a lot alike, but aren't the same. Since they all came from root stock (or Momma) but they are different hybrids (versions).

Western Sandcherry tends to sucker and prove to be a better bush, but can still be trained to be a tree. Newport Plum is an outstanding hybrid that most nurseries offer, and have light purble leaves that turn rich purple by the fall. Hollywood Plum starts out with green-grey leaves that turn deep purple and also has many of the same qualities as a Newport.

There is TONS more info on this stuff, but you really don't want to know all that (and I really don't want to go there either).

In your quest to understand the whole tree, bush thing, keep a Dr. Michael Dirr book in your library. He is the GOD of the Nursery Industry and his Encyclopedia is our Bible.

I understand the Genus/species/variety/cultivar stuff.
But this groups seems specifically designed to confuse. I always get aggravated when the taxonomists decide to rename or reclassify old favorites but in this case I think a good housecleaning is needed :)

It sounds as if a Purple leaf sand cherry is a shrub version of the Purple plum tree?

So which is Ciruela Cistena de Hojo Morada ??

All I want to know is what I have...

yeah, a good house cleaning is definately needed. one of the main problems is that if someone decided to make a NEW cultivar - they want their name tagged to it so they can get the royalties!! its a dog eat dog world and money is the root cause!

And for all major purposes, a PLSCherry is easier to let grow naturally in shrub form because it is a pain in the tail to keep trimed to get it to treeform. PLPtrees just do it naturally.

I will look into the "Ciruela Cistena de Hojo Morada" thing. right now that doesn't mean diddly to my little brain (especially since I am the lowly bookkeeper here) but there are horticulturalist around here by the boo-kuddles and I will ask them!

Send me a leaf. Stick on in a ziplock and put it into a bubble mailer and send it to the address on the website. that really makes it easier when we can see it to check the vein structure.

Happy Gardening!

I just searched for a tree I bought today and ran across this thread.
I bought it from Home D. but the label on the tub said: Bordier's Nursery, Somis CA : Prunus X Cistena (Dwarf Red Leaf Plum" "Intense red-purple leaves with fragrant, single white flowers appearing after leafout. Grows 6-10 feet tall and 6-8 feet wide. Plant in full sun.
Hardy to -40 degrees."

So....now I'm REALLY confused. I DID buy a plum tree, yes--not a cherry?? ? I assume it's a non-fruiting one as the label didn't mention fruit. and that's the way I wanted it!

Any help?

I can't help you :)
I'm waiting for spring so I can send greenwoodnursery a leaf and get a definitive answer myself.

Prunus x cistena, purple leaf sand cherry is listed in PlantFiles as Prunus cistena:

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/53153/

I believe this entry should be corrected, since Prunus x cistena is the hybrid resulting from a cross between Prunus pumila and Prunus cerasifera 'Atropurpurea' by a horticulture researcher.

I can understand the confusion in common names vs. scientific/botanical/Latin names, but I'll add my two cents to the discussion.

Prunus as a genus captures all the cherries, plums, peaches, apricots, and probably some other fruits less commonly grown that I'm not remembering. Here's what PlantFiles lists (780 choices):

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/adv_search.php?searcher%5Bcommon%5D=&searcher%5Bfamily%5D=&searcher%5Bgenus%5D=prunus&searcher%5Bspecies%5D=&searcher%5Bcultivar%5D=&searcher%5Bhybridizer%5D=&search_prefs%5Bblank_cultivar%5D=&search_prefs%5Bsort_by%5D=genus&images_prefs=both&Search=Search

To break this down into bite-sized morsels, one could split the menu into:

••fruiting (as in plants that humans would consume the fruit from - peaches, plums, cherries, apricots - in competition with animals)

••ornamental (plants that we like to look at but aren't generally interested in consuming the fruit - this category also includes cherries, plums, apricots, peaches but that the fruit is pretty insignificant in size or taste to humans, but animals will consume them)

Clear as Jello? So, near as I can tell, both ConnieW and Cearbhaill have a purple leaf sand cherry (common name, which doesn't always clear things up) which is Prunus x cistena or Prunus cistena. This is a red/purple leafed ornamental plant that normally grows as a larger multistemmed shrub, but that can probably be trained as a tree with some effort. Pretty tough customer with nice pink flowers and probably some small insignificant fruit.

Purple leaf plum, however, is Prunus cerasifera. This is a red/purple leafed ornamental plant that normally grows as a small tree like a dogwood or crabapple, but that one could make multistemmed if you so desired. These also are pretty tough, have copious pink flowers, and form smaller fruit that aren't it's main ornamental character.

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/53217/

To cap it off, PlantFiles lists 14 named varieties of Purple Leaf Plum (Prunus cerasifera) including (yes, you guessed it) one named 'Cistena'. I believe that is probably an error, but there it is.

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/adv_search.php?searcher%5Bcommon%5D=&searcher%5Bfamily%5D=&searcher%5Bgenus%5D=prunus&searcher%5Bspecies%5D=cerasifera&searcher%5Bcultivar%5D=&searcher%5Bhybridizer%5D=&search_prefs%5Bblank_cultivar%5D=&search_prefs%5Bsort_by%5D=genus&images_prefs=both&Search=Search

Most of the Prunus have a series of pest problems in the eastern US, including many insects like borers and Japanese beetles, as well as the the usual diseases that afflict fruit growers like black knot and canker.

Wow, you say! Where can I immerse myself in more lore about the Purple Leaf Sand Cherry? Why, here you go:

http://www.naz.edu:9000/~treewalk/north_tree_walk/prunuscistena/index.htm

Knock yourself out.

In areas that are plagued with Japanese beetles, such as where I live, we call purple plums "Beetle Bait" (and never plant them anymore).

I've never seen a beetle in my yard....hoping...
And, remember that the flowers on mine are supposed to be white, not pink. ??

I'm not sure I'd trust what color they said the flowers would be...it should be blooming soon so I'd wait and see what color they turn out to be, Home Depot's not exactly known for the accuracy of their plant tags.

So is this flower any help in determining what I have??

My Sand Cherry is not blooming yet. We're about 3 weeks behind you, or more. I'll make sure I check out the flower when it blooms. I remember the flowers are very small though.

Well, WHATEVER I have--plum or cherry--I just examined it yesterday and the leaves are just riddled with holes. Does this infamous beetle do that or does he eat the wood??? This is the first time I"ve seen the effects of insect damage in my yard (well, other than rose problems) ever! It also appears that there are some little white cottony areas to the ends of stems. Should I YANK this plant from my gardens at once?? :-(

Here's a pic from my Prunus x cistena. I am confident in the classification, based on the reputation of the nursery where I bought it (they're huge, and old and extremely well respected in the industry).

I think identification by bloom is going to be extremely difficult. Almost every Prunus species that I have seen has a very similar blossom to this. As to your specific hybrid, did you keep the name tag from your purchase, and does the grower have a website?

Since the original tag listed cistena instead of cerasifera, I'd go with cistena until someone comes up with evidence otherwise. Since the label's in Spanish, what they call plum vs sand cherry may be different than the common names we use, so I'd go with cistena which is part of the Latin name and not subject to the same variability as the common names. Of course Lowe's isn't always great about having things properly labeled so it could be something entirely different, but at the very least I think the intention of the label was to say that it's Prunus x cistena.