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Anyone know what this is?
Wow! Awesome images for BF if we can get a name!
Lucy, do you mind if I print your pictures out to bring with me? I still have one of the cocoon things, and I think that, along with your pictures, will be a great show and tell for the Coop X people.
It would be nice to know exactly what it is. I did read in my travels on the web today that parasitic wasps lay their eggs on nocturnal caterpillars. Can't find the particular page right now for the specifics, but maybe that's why they just seem to appear out of nowhere. Perhaps those little wasps hatch out at night too and work like little buggers to leave a silky surprise for us in the morning?!!
Will continue the quest for answers...
Sure...copy all the pictures. I don't mind. : )
The 3rd cocoon that was made, I had been out there about 9am that morning and it wasn't there. Then at 2 pm...it was. Unless, I just happen to have missed it, in the a.m. I try to look over all the leaves every time...but I could have missed it.
~Lucy
Oh, and the other 2 caterpillars do not look like they have been stung or anything, yet.
I say stung,....but I mean, I didn't see any sign of eggs being deposited, yet.
~Lucy
That's a new one for me!! I know braconid wasps exit the caterpillar and spin silken cocoons, but I've only known of them spinning cocoons individually. Like on the hornworm.... Wow!! This is soooo interesting!
Fascinating! I emailed a few of ya'lls photos to our Texas entomologist and he emailed back that a person in Brownsville reported those on her papayas about three weeks ago too. Says those are just like her photos. She didn't say what came out of them...I think they are still babysitting them.
~ Cat
It's time for me to come out and say hi to everyone. I too, am growing a papaya and currently it's doing great indoor in big pot. I'm tagging along to learn what are those currious "things" that the Papaya is a host of. Very interesting to find out, and have it documented on DG. Thanks for sharing the pics. and findings.
Kim
Hi Kim : ) Jump in anytime. You may think of something we haven't thought about. : )
~Lucy
Lucy,
As per Entemologis Fred Santana "It's a communal coccoon ..." implies whichever specie of wasp (braconid?) is very clever, they know how to create such elaborat "castle" to house their offsprings. They even created that built-in storage to fit the catterpillar in there for their young to comsume when they hatch. Isn't that the best parental model to serve on earth? Can we learn to nuture our youngs and surpase their instincts? :-)
The adult braconid wasp would have laid eggs in or on the caterpillar. They would have hatched and then set to work eating the caterpillar from the inside - leaving the essential organs as it would have to be alive when they exited and created the pupa case. But it would die shortly as it would not have eaten during this period of time, and also have much of its body parts missing - it is one sick caterpillar. Usually they form individual cocoons, which you can see on the outside of the caterpillar - as in hornworms and the braconids that parasitize them. So the storage unit (pupa case) doesn't come along until after the larvae have grown to full size, and they create it themselves, in this instance apparently around the dying caterpillar, as a single unit.
It's the larvae that form the case, not the adult. There is no parental care at all. They just find the food source, and lay the eggs.
Here are the individual pupa cases on a hornworm.
http://extension-horticulture.tamu.edu/galveston/beneficial4_braconid_wasp_on_hornworm.htm
Ahhhh, there goes my hypothesis down the drain....Ugh!!!! Thanks ceejaytown. Fascinating those little creatures...
May I also ask what kind of moths/butterflies will be the Tomato Hornworms? I've seen them, was at awe with them, so much so that I shared my tomatoes and peppers for their consumption. I've never known what they'd morph into. Thanks much.
Kim
(sorry everyone; don't mean to hijack your thread).
Tomato hornworm adult: http://www.enature.com/flashcard/show_flash_card.asp?recordNumber=BU0111
Tobacco hornworm adult: http://www.enature.com/fieldguides/detail.asp?recnum=BU0112
Both of these are genus Manducca and referred to as Sphinx moths.
Similar, same genus, different species. The tobacco hornworm is much more common, even on tomatoes. They have the same food sources - plants in the Solanaceae family. Because they are voracious eaters, and can eat a plant to the ground overnight, I hunt them down and destroy them. My tomato plants are far more important to me than these destructive moth caterpillars.
Contrary to popular belief, these are not the hummingbird moths, although they are often referred to as such. The clearwing moths, particularly in the genus Hemaris, are the true hummingbird moths, feeding at dusk.
Here's a page devoted to sphinx moths and clearwing moths. http://whatsthatbug.com/clearwing_moth.html
Delightful, informatives, thanks.
Kim
I left a message for Fred Santana, asking for a specific name of the wasp (latin name please!), but I didn't hear back from him today. Will keep you all updated!
Cathy
Ok, Thanks Cathy. : )
Thanks for continuing to follow up on this. I am very curious!!
Lucy and all, they hatched out this morning. I went out to get the jar with the cocoon in it, just as I was leaving for work, and ACK! the whole jar had little bugs crawling all over it. You could see dark spots on the cocoon where they were hatching. Ran into the house and grabbed my camera and took a few (not very good I think) pictures. I couldn't get a close up of the little things, they are only about 1/4" long. Of course the batteries were dying too, ugh, so I will grab some batteries on my way home tonight and post the pics. Hopefully at least a few came out. Still plan to go the mobile Coop X unit this afternoon.
If I hadn't caught them in the act, I don't think I would have been able to tell that anything had happened, the cocoon looks exactly the same.
Cathy
Wow, Cathy, I'm going to stand by. Awaiting your return from work with more info. This is terrific! Thanks for the news.
Kim
Good work, Cathy. : ) Maybe, we can figure out exactly which wasp it is.
I have a couple more photos of the host caterpillar. I still don't know what he is.
~Lucy
A little closer shot of his head.
Lucy, great pic. of the cat.
Kim
Lucy, that guy could be the Ello Sphinx, I can't find a pic of a young one but here's one of an older one:
http://mothphotographersgroup.msstate.edu/Files/Live/Species/7000/7834.shtml
They feed on Papaya.
Scroll down to the bottom of this page and it looks like your cocoon web:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://mothphotographersgroup.msstate.edu/Files/Live/BP/MothTalk/Predation/Molly%2520Robertson%2520PR%2520Erinnyis%2520ello.jpg&imgrefurl=http://mothphotographersgroup.msstate.edu/Files/Live/BP/MothTalk/MothTalk015.htm&h=247&w=300&sz=38&hl=en&start=7&um=1&tbnid=6xfHK5D3TVnwkM:&tbnh=96&tbnw=116&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dello%2Bsphinx%2Bcaterpillar%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1G1NONE_ENUS246
It doesn't say what wasp but it says the Braconids often feed on the Sphinxes.
Fly_girl.... That might be the one. : ) I'll have to check to see if any of them have an eye spot like that one in the picture.
Can you fix the last hyperlink, it just goes to google. Not to the page you wanted to show us.
~Lucy
Nice pics of the cat Lucy!
I stopped at the library after lunch and the Coop X lady, Patricia, thought that the caterpillar was probably the Papaya Hornworm, aka Alope Sphinx Moth. Here's a link I found that shows a caterpillar picture.
http://www.silkmoths.bizland.com/ealope.htm
She recognized the cocoon right away as a parasitic wasp cocoon and said "don't kill them, they're one of the good guys!" She didn't know which species it could be, said the best bet was Dr. Santana, the one who emailed me in the first place! She said he is actually is retired and only comes to the office once or twice a week, so I may not get a reply from him until next week. I asked if the wasps had favorite foods (ie- I sure hope they don't want to eat my butterfly cats!), but neither she or the two Master gardeners there knew the answer.
I will post a picture of the little wasps when I get home, hopefully there's at least one clear picture!
Cathy
There are alot of info. I scanned through the pics. and text. And found pics. taken by Molly Robertson to be the closest discription of the above cocoon?
Fly_girl- great link! The pic towards the bottom on the left of the Erinnyis ello is definitely similiar. Same genus of cat as the ID by the Coop X gal.
Here is a pic of the little wasps as they hatched out this morning.
This was what I first saw when I went to get the jar. They were everywhere. I tried to get a close up photo for a possible ID, but my camera just couldn't or wouldn't focus on the tiny buggers.
Wow!
This is great! We gotta get these guys positively identified. Bugfiles needs them!
I'm hoping Mr Santana will contact me with a better ID on the wasps, I guess he is "the" bug guy in Sarasota County!
Now that the wasps have hatched out of the cocoon, I can see on each little cocoon within the big mass, that there is an escape hole drilled out of each individual "little house." I just tried to take a picture, but I think it will come out better in daylight tomorrow.
Bugs are cool.
Cathy
Do you know how to use a macro setting, and do you know if your camera has one? It has an icon of a little tulip on your camera controls. The problem is, each camera has a minimal focal point and if you get any closer than that, your image will be blurred.
what kind of camera are you using? I'll do a little research and see if I can help you get a better shot.
Thanks Melody, you are so sweet! I have a Nikon Coolpix 5600. I have no idea if this has a macro setting, but I'm guessing not. DH has a fancy schmancy camera, I have to "bug" him (hee hee) to help me take a pic of the spent cocoon.
I have absolutely no patience with electronic gizmos, usually end up cussing, etc. I can clean seeds, separate endless clumps of bulbs, and do all sorts of other garden related mundane things for hours, but I last about 10 seconds with cameras, dvd players, remotes. I have learned not to throw them anymore though...
You have a macro mode, and it's a very good one.
Go to your menu screen. On your round toggle button there will be an image of a tulip at the bottom of it. Press the "V" arrow down. That should put you into macro mode. see if your close ups aren't better. you can get within 3 or 4" and have a nice close up using your zoom.
Man, you girls are getting good. : )
I went out and found 3 more caterpillars, but everyone of the cocoons were gone. I found one on the other side of the yard. Kinda tatered.
We are gonna have to get all this together like Melody said.
Melody, you might have to start the Bug file and then we can add our pictures. I'm not sure I could do all of it.
~Lucy
As soon as we get an i.d., I'll make sure that the entry is created and give a link here on this thread. Everyone can add their images, add zip code report, and post a comment.
Please, please, please do all three. Nothing is more disheartening to someone searching than finding the entry, and all you have is a name and a photo. Just a bit about where you found it, any description of what, and why this thing is, and how it exists.
Think about what you would like to read about it if you were searching. It would be great to have everything that you've uncovered about it all in one place wouldn't it? It's been fun to go through the process with friends and share info, but think about the poor person who hasn't found DG or BF yet. What a help it would be to have it nice and tidy. Make want to make them stick around and see what we're all about.
edited for spelling...
This message was edited Nov 15, 2007 6:07 PM
Are we gonna do 2 id's? The wasp, and the green caterpillar?
~Lucy
That would be preferable. The wasp would be Diptera, the moth Lepidoptera, so two separate entries.
Sounds good. : )