CLOSED: what in the world....

could these be? I found a webby blob hanging on a Live Oak tree and thought it was a bat at first but upon a closer look this is what I found.

I'll add another picture of the underside after I removed the blob from the tree.

The underside of the living blob.

Wow. Those are some kind of moth pupae. I'm still looking around, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone knows exactly what they are.

I wish we had Live Oaks up here!

They look more like beetle or fly larvae to me, though I haven't a clue beyond that hunch.

Try an image search for 'fall webworm pupae'.
I didn't think of them because they don't bother Oaks around here, not that I've seen, anyway. But I'm sure they're moths.

These are caterpillar chrysalis (chrysalii?). They were probably eaten by a cat.

Wow! that is crazy looking. It looks as if you can see some of the wings developing inside the pupa. I would keep them in something so you will know for sure what they are when they emerge. I would love to know what they are. Please come back and post pictures for us.

The cat thought turned my stomach upside down. LOL

chris

Chris that is a good idea about keeping them in a jar or something; I had never thought of that. Going outside with a flashlight right now to see if it is still around. Hopefully, my cat did not find it. LOL

There is a Live Oak Tussock Moth.

http://www.forestryimages.org/browse/subthumb.cfm?sub=14686&start=1

Also Live Oak Metria Moth

http://mothphotographersgroup.msstate.edu/Files/Live/Species/8000/8666.shtml

Live Oak Tussock Moth does make a cocoon like that.

http://bugguide.net/node/view/111186

Metria amella is associated with barrier islands

http://www.ncsparks.net/nhpsecpimages/mfs8.pdf

SC Moth species with many pics,

http://facweb.furman.edu/~snyderjohn/sc-moths/sc-species-list.htm

Orgyia detrita, Live Oak Tussock Moth is listed.

Wow, you are good. I have seen a lot of the Metria moths here and I am sure I have seen the Live Oak Tussocks too. The description of the cocoon is pretty close but I noticed they lay their eggs in spring. I do not think this thing has been there since spring. Maybe I have a confused moth.....

I did bring it into the house in a jar with a bit of cheesecloth secured over the top. I'll let you al know what hatches.

http://eny3541.ifas.ufl.edu/Tussock/Orgyia.htm

"Life Cycle: Hatch from the overwintering eggs starts around March 1 when oak trees are flushing. Caterpillars feed and grow over a period of 4 to 6 weeks. The 2-week long pupal stage occurs from early to mid April. Male moths emerge and fly to the wingless females from mid April into early May. Females lay a mass of eggs on their cocoons. Depending on the species, there is either no further activity until the following spring, or the eggs will hatch after a few weeks and produce another generation."

That might cover it!

I have never seen them in clusters like that. The pupa that I have found like that are usually in the dirt.
Very curious what they will be. Glad you brought them in.

Don't Tussock moths make a single coccoon for each larva? Ardesia's picture shows a number of them in the same web.
Look at the sixth picture down:

http://www.ento.vt.edu/~sharov/insect/webworm.html

http://bugguide.net/node/view/111186

"According to the University of Florida, this is the time of year when females lay their eggs on the cocoons"

So by that do they mean single cocoons, or eggs in a larger cocoon. It looks a large cocoon, or is a very large picture of a single!

I'm looking at their food source, a google revealed those two moths as eating Live Oak. Many moths will feed only on one type of plant.

I have seen caterpillars make these kinds of cocoon, just never in clusters. I do think you are going to get moths emerging from these, not caterpillars.
I could be very confused (absolutely wouldnt be the first time) but I think the eggs hatch into caterpillars then the caterpillars turn into these cocoons, then the moths emerge.
Now I have to go look it up cause it will drive me more nuts than I already am.

That's correct chris, eggs, caterpillars, then pupae, then moths. As these are all together I wonder if they make a communal cocoon, i.e. make their own individual cocoon but a mass of them together. It would also seem that after hatching out the females would lay their eggs on the old cocoons.

This gives the process of a Tussock Moth,

http://mothphotographersgroup.msstate.edu/Files/Live/JGross/TussockMothParasitoids.htm

This is perplexing!
I've heard of communal larval webs, but communal pupae webs?

It just seems like it would be difficult for a newly emerged moth to get itself free of that webbing. It looks more like a spider type webbing than silk covering a cocoon, but, I don't know.

What are those brown pieces that are in there with the cocoons?

From Bugguide

"Live Oak Tussock Moth cocoon, Orgyia detrita, the most common of the Florida Orygia species, in which the female covers her eggs with abdominal hairs."

http://bugguide.net/node/view/111186

It is hard to say what the "other" brown things are in the cocoon. It appears some of the pupae hatched as some are empty and there are also some bits of twigs in there. The cocoon has shrunk a bit since it has been in the house; do you think I should add a drop or two of water to the jar?

My DH is out of town, when he comes home and finds that thing in the kitchen he will freak. LOL

A misting might help if it gets that outside, they might dry out too much inside.

Scroll down on this link, the life cycle shows the wingless female which makes a new cocoon on her old one from which she hatched. After laying her eggs she dies.

http://eny3541.ifas.ufl.edu/Tussock/Orgyia.htm

There would be old pupa skins in the cocoon if she hatches, mates, lays eggs making a new cocoon on top then dies. It could be massed from more than one season as the female doesn't fly, perhaps just keeps laying in the same place.

Okay.....the moth lays her eggs on her old cocoon case, they hatch and leave...they must eat, then they come back to the same place to silk up a cocoon in a communal web. Wallaby, is this what you are thinking?

Not exactly fly_girl, the female sends out pheremones to attract a male after hatching, mates, lays eggs on the old coccoon at the same time making another new cocoon, then dies. This would be a continual thing with females, that might account for a mass of cocoon over a period of time with old cocoons remaining.

The caterpillars which go off to feed probably make a new set of cocoons elsewhere, but I imagine some night have to return to the old cocoons to make more! If they feed on the tree that would make sense, as a good chosen spot might be re-used.

This message was edited Nov 7, 2007 3:41 PM

Why would she make a new cocoon? I don't know if an adult moth could make a cocoon, this is where I get confused, so please bear with me.

This is what it says,

"Eggs are deposited on cocoons by the wingless females in late April and early May. During oviposition, females cover the egg mass with hairs from their abdomen. Note the hair-covered egg mass on the cocoon on the left. "

So I guess it's a sort of cocoon. They would need to be protected.

LOL, I still cant wait to see the moths. I hope they dont overwinter until spring. Very interesting.

chris

me too.

If you get wingless females you will have to put them back on the tree with sticky tape!

Yeah, right. LOL

Just dont use hot glue gun. LOL

Update - None of the above.

Well, guess what! The first moth emerged today and it is an Oleander Moth. I couldn't get a good photo through the glass jar and I am not going to let these little guys go because my neighbors already hate me for harboring hundreds (thousands?) of these things. They are just so beautiful I can't bear to spray them so they have devoured many Oleanders in the neighborhood. I will add however, that my moths are much prettier than the picture in this link. They are truly gorgeous creatures.

http://woodypest.ifas.ufl.edu/1003.htm

Mystery solved! Too bad they arent ones that you need more of. :(
I am very glad you keep them inside to find out for sure what they were.
Maybe you can post pictures of cocoon and moths in the bug files. That would be a positive result for you bringing them in.

Thanks for letting us know.
Chris

Good idea Chris. I'll get to that when I finish the holiday cooking.

Thanks for the update Ardesia...it is very interesting!

Love those moths too, they're so unique. I usually shun the Oleanders, they're so overused here, but I may have to get a couple just for the moths :)