Straw Bale Gardening (Part 17) - General discussion

Donna: also glad to hear you didn't come out in worse shape from your fall.

Kent

Donna Glad you came through with only minor, cuts and bruises.

This message was edited Nov 18, 2007 3:49 PM

Thank you everyone for your kindness regarding my falling. Am so lucky to have strong bones.

Donna

Yes you are Donna. I am taking Boniva. Think it helps 'cause I haven't broken anything in quite a while. Knock on wood. LOL

Jeanette

hi, Lovedirtynails
I grew tomatoes, squash, peppers and swiss chard in my bales this year. I made the mistake that some have made and placed my bales too close together.
I started too late this year, first of June. Next year I am going start my bales in late March.
Some of the plants may take longer to thrive but I will be able to get other things done in the mean time.
Now that it is winter I plan to make a report on my drip/fertilizer system. It sure make tending the garden easier. This year I spent the month of August in Haiti so lost my bean crop. My bride and daughters didn't pick them. They were in the back yard out of sight out of mind. The Tomatoes did great. I only lost a few. The drip/fertilizer system worked perfectly through some really hot days.
I use a growing system called Agrotowers, http://agrotower.com/, to grow my beans on. Three towers give me all of the beans I need. I grow purple beans so I can see them on the plants. I am experimenting with the Agrotowers to introduce to Haiti. I think they can be very successful.
By the way in anyone is interested here is another link that has a ton of appropriate information on growing food in 3rd world countries. http://www.echonet.org/, http://www.echotech.org/mambo/index.php

Hey Jack, Your link to the agrotowers didn't take. I would love to see them. Do you have a good one?

Jeanette

Same here. Wouldn't work here either.
Jeanette; I'm getting closer to getting rid of the tree. I have the shed tore down and what was in it moved. Would have dropped the tree today but had a fairly strong south wind. That would not helped at all.
Maybe tomorrow. I know that when I do get it down, Barb will rest easier, she has been afraid that it would some day fall on the house.
Well none of the heavy part would but some of the branches could hit a window and maybe the A/C unit, That wouldn't be good either.
I think I will just try googling, agrotower, and see what I come up with.
Good luck--------- Russ

Just did it. It would not do much for me. as It would take a lot of mulch in the winter to save something like strawberries. Then sometimes we get a really strong wind. I don't think the stack would topple very easily. but if it did it would be a problem. But it does have potential where the winters are not too severe. Or in a greenhouse aplication.--------Russ

I'll have to take a look. You have me curious now Russ.

You be careful with that tree. Out here they call them widowmakers. Especially with the wind blowing. The birch trees get borers in them and they kill the tops. When you go to cut them the tops fall off and because of the chainsaw running, they don't hear them coming.

Need I say more??

Jeanette

Hi.
I tried this link to the Agrotower and it worked on my computer.
http://agrotower.com/

I hope this works for you. It looks like the one on the earlier post but when I click it in preview mode it works.

Hi, again.
I tried the links to the ECHO sites and they didn't work either. Here is another try.
http://www.echonet.org/
http://www.echotech.org/mambo/

I still plan to do a few bales this year to, probably in march if I don't want them to bake in the heat. I'd like to try one for flowers only if possible too.

lonejack, your link worked for me, the other didn't. After I saw the picture I knew what it is. someone gave one to my sister last spring and she raised strawberries in it. They seemed to grow quite well but i don't think she used the best potting soil.

Donna

Ok, this time it worked for me. Maybe too many people had it checked out. LOL Very interesting Jack.

Donna, I don't think the potting soil would matter if she used the tower the way it describes. i.e. as watering, fertilizing, etc. She probably didn't want to mess with that. She could have fertilized good and maybe got the intended results. Bet she enjoyed the strawberries she did get though.

Jeanette

Jeanette;
Well Barb will not have to worry about that any more. I notched it and cut the back side and gave a tug with the pickup on a long cable. I had it cut through with the exception of about 1 inch. The tug only made it lean. Had to cut a little more before it actually went down.
Most trees of that size, would have toppled with nearly 2 inches still holding. Guess walnuts are that much tougher.
But it is laying right where I wanted it to drop.
Just wish I could get these dog gone pictures to load right. Been trying to post it for nearly an hour. I give up. No pic for this time.
Now I hope that there is enough good wood to have it sawed into boards.
I would like to make a head board, for our bed, from it. After all It was there to take the lightning bolt instead of it hitting the house.

I don't remember if you said if it was a Black or English Walnut. I remember many, many years ago when my brother cut down a black walnut and stored (??) the one large log at my other place to cure until he wanted to use it. You obviously knew just how to cut and fall the tree. Good job.

Donna

Donna; It was a black walnut. Growing up under my father, I had to do things right. All of us boys had some hard learning. I'm not saying he was abusive, but he did have a short fuse. To keep us busy, he would some times have us cut down a tree or two, for the following winter.
That was all with an ax and a two man saw.
That makes me appreciate a chainsaw very much! I was a little concerned with this tree though, it had a lot of limbs counterbalancing it the opposite way I wanted it to fall. Thus the cable and the pickup, to make sure. Probably a good thing too. When I was down to the last inch untill it would have cut through to the notch. It still wasn't ready to give up. I moved the truck a little more to tighten the cable, and it only made the lean. The right way of course but I did have to go back and cut a little more. It was a tough old tree and I guess it wasn't ready to give up. The lower trunk and one limb was all that was alive. The lightning killed the rest of it.
I am going to have to put up with some walnut saw dust in the garden. But with it being dry I don't think the effects will be so much that nothing will grow. But I will keep in mind as to where to plant some root veggies that don't like to grow too close to a walnut tree. Corn is close enough to being a grass that it will do OK. and so on. The tomatoes will be in bales, so they won't be affected Now the sweet potatoes\ I don't know yet. But I'm thinking of bringing in some sand and mixing it in all the compost I'm making from all the leaves and grass clippings and this last summers bales. The bales were nearly compost, by the time I had to pull the tomato vines and chop them up. Most of what I run through the shredder has really shrunk to a very small pile. I need to get more leaves and stuff to add to it. I will want to have enough to help counteract the walnut saw dust. There probably won't be enough to worry about but why chance it.
Well " may your winter be mild and short and we all be ready for next years gardening!!!!!! LOL Here is a pic to make you think of something besides w i n t e r ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

Russ, sure glad you got that sucker to fall the right way. You need falling wedges before you try any more of those.

I'll never forget the picture I saw my BIL and a couple of nephews got a chain saw stuck in a tree they were cutting down. So, they used another one to get that one out and it got stuck. Before they were done they had 4 chainsaws stuck in that tree.

That is from not knowing what you are doing. LOL Fortunately nobody got hurt. One of them went to pull a tree with a pickup but the rope was too short. End of story. Another one dropped a tree right on the motor of the chainsaw. End of saw.

Honest, they are all still alive to tell about it today.

Jeanette

Jeanette; There are some real horror stories concerning chainsaws and felling trees.
One young man, fortunately working with a crew of men, had been trimming branches. Was going to restart his saw, without placing it on the ground. It did start but with the force he used on the rope and the inertia of the swing, brought the chain in contact with his neck. He did survive. Only because, the other men got him in the truck, held pressure on the wound. Got him to the hospital just as his heart stopped. How the Dr's. saved him I don't know. He had severed one artery and most of his throat. I don't care if I'm in a hurry or not, The proper way to start any chain saw is on the ground and held firmly.

I have used wedges on some, but if you are trying to fell it against the wind, or to the side with the least branches, a long cable or a good rope, might save more than the cost of the rope. If nothing else, peace of mind for your spouse! No laughing matter!
I have had a saw get stuck before, but wedges and a small jack lifted the tree trunk enough to relieve the pressure on the blade. That tree was already down, so I didn't have the worry of a tree falling the wrong way.
I do appreciate your concern for a fellow gardener, and so does Barb. Thank you!!! Russ

Russ, just glad it is down. Now you can get on to cleaning up all the mess they make. You are fortunate you don't have snow covering it up. We are due about 6 inches tonight. So they say.

When do you guys get snow? So far, other than the mountains, I haven't heard of anyone getting any except TEXAS. Amazing. On the news this morning they said they got 6 inches.

Jeanette

I'm thinking of putting together a slide show on SBG to use for presentations to various groups... Seniors, Mobility Handicapped, etc. Any thoughts?

Most years, we would have already had 3 or 4" by now.
But whenever they have that El-Ninya (spelling ?) effect. we will sometimes get a mild winter. They had snow South and East of us, but we only had a very light flurry, could barely see that it had done anything
Was to the VA this morning, 100 miles from here. The Dr. give me a good report. I was happy and smiling all the way home. Had to tell Barb right away.

Yes now I can get back to cleaning up the mess, I really wanted the tree down a year ago. Had people that said they would do it or help, of course that never occured. So as they say the best place to find a helping hand is at the end of your arm.
Say , question what did you say you used to cure your bales. I could go back and look at all the posts but sometimes it is just easier to ask.
Or were you able to get the amonium nitrate, like Kent does.
Well I better get out and get some more of that mess cleaned up.

Congratulations on your good report card. That's great. Now you don't have a reason to not clean up that tree. LOL

I have used 2 different things. One was a Urea 36-0-0 and the other was a high nitrogen lawn food 'cause I couldn't find anything else. I think the Urea was ammonium sulfate. Don't know that it matters. Kent might have a reason. Some used bloodmeal. Some used hay bales.

Will think on it Darius.

Jeanette

darius: go for it!

- - - - - -

Jeanette: I used ammonium nitrate because that was what the "original" recipe called for. I wished I could discover the person who originally came up with it.

It seems that anything with a high nitrogen content works fine with the straw-based bales.

The grass/hay-based bales already have a high nitrogen base and didn't seem to need it according to those who use grass/hay.

Kent

This message was edited Nov 26, 2007 5:57 PM

I ended up using quite a strong fresh horse manure tea, and some blood&bone meal. Bales cooked very well, ready for planting after less than 3 weeks.

Everything is planted now and growing nicely. My tallest tomato plant is about 50cm by now, and showing its first fruit. And cucumbers/pumpkins sown direct into the bales are getting their 3rd true leaves.

Am thinking it might almost be time to give the plants their first "feed" of diluted manure tea. Its been brewing over a month now, so has hopefully cooled a bit.

I am still working my way through reading all the previous threads (currently up to #13) and remember some of you using epsom salts? What does that do? Add Mg I guess... MgCl2 If I can remeber highschool chem correctly...
And what does the brown sugar add? Im quite interested in making my own fertilisers at low cost, and prefferably organic.

Has anybody sprinkled side dressings (eg bloodmeal, fetiliser or manure pellets) onto the bales around mature plants? Is it neccessary to use liquid fertiliser?

Did anyone have sucess with side planting cucurbits in the bales? My logic thinks it could work, if the plants were set deeply enough. Sticking the seeds straight in there might not... the seedlings may grow up not sideways... Any advice????

I have spent the last few days building huge cages around my tomato bales out of bamboo and twine. And I think I got my first sunburn of the season. Summer is really beginning to heat up over here, supprisingly early this year.

Well, uni is finished for the year, thank God I passed everything despite spending waaay more time in the garden than in my books! I am supposed to be finding a summer job and starting work asap. Hopefully in a nursery or outdoors centre. Definately enjoying my freedom while it lasts though!

I hope you are all keeping warm. Heres my first Black Krim, very small still, and a little odd, but beautiful none the less
:-)

Lena

Jeanette; & Kent Thank you Both. That does clear things a bit, for me.
I have the bales, spoken for. The retired farmer just says they are in the hay loft. I think I had better get them as soon as I get the space cleared for them. He isn't in that good of health, so the deal could change in the wink of an eye. If I can get a lot of bales, I will have to try the beans and cukes in the bales too. The Squash done fairly well. for starting them by seed in the bale. But I didn't lay any thing down to keep the weeds from coming up and try to overtake the squash. I had run out of time to get them tied up on any thing. Then the vines were already too big to try training them other wise. Guess I just get too involved in helping others. I don't know if it will work or not but I think I will try to
re-negotiate the price to mow the lawns, if gas gets any higher. Or maybe get a couple of nanny goats and tie them out get paid for mowing and milk the goats too -------------LOL-------

Congrats on your grades, Lena.
And good to hear from you, even though my garden is done for the year. But we are enjoying the fruits of our labor, with lots of sweet potatoes and squash, in storage. the cucumbers all put up and tomatoes canned and setting on the shelf. Same with Onions and the garlic, all on shelves, Waiting their turn to flavor something good.
Just keep the pics coming , kind of makes us anxious for the seed catalogs to start coming in. :o)

I do still have some swiss chard still sending up some new leaves but they always seem to get frozen before I get to them. Guess I should put up a makeshift hoop house for them, extend the season for them.

Oops I posted the wrong picture! That was last week. This is my little tomato today. The first "real" tomato. The others showing fruit so far are all cherry varieties.

Heres my little structure that I built yesterday. Its suprisingly sturdy. The poles go into the ground quite far. Once the tomatoes get large enough I will start tying them to the poles along the edges. Should give them plenty of space to grow.

Looks good, and I'm sure the price was right. Just some elbow grease right??? Bet it gave you a workout, to chop all those poles ((*o*))
Russ

Wow Lena, you don't mess around do you. You get things done. Including tomatoes already. Doing great. I love the tomato cage, lol, trellis. I sure hope you get a summer job working outside. Beats working a cash register or waiting tables. MacDonalds? Yuck. You are doing great getting to part 13. Good for you.

Russ, you are just trying to make us jealous of all that canning you did. Sure does sound good.

Did I tell you I am going to try a few tomatoes in hydroponics for the winter? Try, that is the magic word. I have never done any hydroponics and don't know the first thing about it, but I will try. I always thought it would be interesting. Will let you know how it goes.

Jeanette

Lena: you're doing a fantastic job.

I'm going to have to get my metric conversion chart out if you keep talking about centimeters, etc! :-)

I was in the 4th grade in 1967 when the US "Guvmint" tried to get us on the Metric scale and it was a dismal failure. About all we have to show for it are the drinks are still in 2 liter bottles and we have to have some metric tools to work on our Toyotas and Hondas!

That's a great looking trellis for the tomatoes.

Are you going to sucker your tomatoes?

You folks in the Southern Hemisphere will pull us through our winter.

Kent

Hey Jeanette, that sounds great. I am no where near, to where I could try Hydroponics. Though I have been thinking about. Getting a small corner of the garage cleared, to use for starting all the maters and S/Ps. Barb didn't really mind too much of all my little plants, taking up a lot of room in the house, although I did get quite a few suggestions. LOL
Anyway, it worked out. I don't think I can get much done, on the garage thing, this winter. I have way too many irons in the fire, for that to happen. Maybe next summer for that project. I would have to have either gas or oil heat for that. I would not depend on our power Co. for that. We been without power far too many times to depend on them.. Really though I think the longest we have been without power was 4 and 1/2 days. Power was off twice that winter though. all in the same month. Oh well I'll get around that too..
I put a small gas heater in the living room that don't depend on anything except there to be gas in the tank. It don't even have to be vented. So I think another one like that for out in the garage should do the trick.

Sure looks like winter outside this morning. Started snowing about 5:00 pm, but only accumulated to about 1" so must have stopped before too long. got down to 21 degrees and is quite clear in the south. However weather man says more snow to come, so I didn't go to Wenatchee as I had planned, expect the pavement is pretty slick.

Donna

I'll let you know how mine turns out Russ. If so, we'll get you into hydroponics yet. Listen to me!! You would think I know what I am talking about. LOL

The last time we lost power for any length of time was over Thanksgiving about 8 years ago for 5 days. The next summer we bought a wood cook stove and a generator with the transfer station. Would you believe we haven't lost power again except for an hour or 2 at a time?

Donna, we got 4 or 5 inches of snow last night. It is up to 32 degrees now so some of it might thaw, but the ground is frozen solid so doubt if we'll lose it all. It is suppose to be 11 degrees a couple of nights this week and snow again Wednesday. So, hang in there you will get your share.

Jeanette

No snow here yet. So I have made a big dent in getting all the twigs up off the garden. and burning them. It's up to 25 now, but came in for another break, and to warm my fingers. Barb just said I would say your hair smells like wood smoke- - -but you don't have enough hair to get smelled up. We had a good laugh with that, but it is true what little I do have is cut in sort of a flat top. LOL
Just have to get the bigger logs moved now and clean up around them.
Skid loader quit running so not sure how far I can get them for a while.
Barb had a Dr. appointment this evening, so will have to stop soon anyway. Been have a lot of pain in lower back and hip area, Going to try a cortisone shot for today, but I'm thinking that at the very least, she will need some therapy there maybe even surgery. Just going by how my back felt and what had happened to me. It don't take much to get your back out- a- whack. Then if you were lifting and turned wrong that is when things really go wrong.
Yes please keep me informed on the hydroponics. I understand that on a large scale it gets quite involved. I'm thinking though that just to have some tomatoes during the winter for two or three, a failure wouldn't break you up in business.
Well better go back out, try get a couple of the smaller logs moved. It looks like we may be getting some snow by Friday. If we do I hope it don't get so deep to make it impossible for me to work on the skid loader back where it quit running. I depend on it to clear my "lane" or driveway whichever. but 180' of snow drift is beyond me to try shovel by hand. I have done it before, but not any more. Think I had better throw a tarp over it just in case. I could always run a long extension cord out to it and work under the tarp with a light. Oh the problems that occur to trip us up.

Hope you get your skid loader working again without too much trouble. Also that Barb's Dr. appointment goes okay.

Sun is shining nicely today and got up to 32 degrees.

How did the dr. appt. go Russ:? Good I hope. Maybe a good massage would help her.

You better get that machinery running if you have a 180 foot driveway. I am sure the price has gone up a lot if you have to call someone to plow it out for you.

That's about how long our drive is also and they used to charge us $25. Bet it would be more now.

I am going to send you a website. Read it before you automatically delete it. LOL

Whoops, send me your email by D-mail. Thanks

Jeanette

Oh bother I just wrote a long reply and then didnt post it! Ill try again.

Russ: Yes, hard work chopping, but good fun too. Tieing all the knots tightly with the tough natural twine was actually the hardest, on my fingers anyway! And the chair I was standing on kept sinking its feet into the ground, unballancing me. haha good times.

Jeanette: Noooooooo not McDonalds, I couldnt do that! I wouldnt even consider eating there, so my morals will definately prevent me from working there! I value wholesome nutritious food, thats why I grow my own I guess. I have an interview at the BBQ Factory on friday morning, to work in their shop/ sale yard. They sell camping and outdoor furniture, and, well, BBQs. Could be ok. Really I wanted to try a simple labouring job like painting or landscaping or concreting. My last chance to do lowly paid unskilled work before graduating. Imagine how upset my father would be if he payed for me to go to uni, and I end up working as a painters labourer! I just like the outdoors, and hard work is fun too.
Where would you set up hydroponics? Does that mean it would be just as possible to grow tomatoes in an EB over winter?(or even a strawbale if you can contain the mess?)

Kent: I dont understand your funny imperial system either! It doesnt even get taught in schools. I know that 3 feet is roughly one metre, and theres about two pounds to a kilo. Gallons are about 3 litres, maybe 4? Dosn't make sense to me at all. At least metric is all in multiples of 10. Farrenheit is another mystery. So if 32 is freezing, then what is warm? Too hot? 25 is warm for us, 35-40 is tropical and nearing too hot. Body temp is about 36 I think.

Yes, I sucker and stake my tomatoes. At least I did with my 32 plants last year. This year I got a little bit excited, and planted, umm, 114. The bales, Ill blame it on the bales! All that additional growing space! And since discovering DG and plantfiles, I could look up all the tomato varieties on offer in the seed catalouge, which just increased the temptation... I have a lot of work ahead of me. It will only be my 4th season canning too.

My elderly neighbour asked what I was planning to keep inside that cage. When I told him tomatoes, he couldnt believe it, his had never tried to run away before! Haha. I was pleased to hear he is growing a few plants himself this year. Last year he didnt bother, so I shared some with him. Maybe he got reminded of how wonderful home grown tomatoes taste!

Right, enough from me. Im heading out to water my garden before the sun goes down. It takes me about 45 minutes every evening. Maybe Im just too careful. Oohh my peppers are flowering!

Good luck with the snow :-) Heres some plums on my lovelyl big old plum tree. This same tree had the most gorgeous white blanket of flowers in spring, kind of like snow...
Lena

Good for you Lena. No MacDonalds, but don't eat that BBQ either. Think what they put in the sauce!! LOL. What are you taking at school? Yup, bet your daddy would not like it one bit to see his daughter in a painter's uniform.

Yes, with the right atmosphere, i.e. light and fertilizer you could grow tomatoes year round. They are not an annual. Those two things are the most important. And water. I am having my so put up a big Metal Halide light I bought from a Master Gardner and it is on a track 6 feet long, in my basement. Also, they will need a little heat. I am not going to give them much because I don't want aphids and spider mites. I also have brugs and a rose bush in there. It is my plant room.

Good luck on your job interview Lena, let us know how it goes.

Jeanette