Lilium martagon 'Album' with new growth...

Yesterday, I bought 3 L.martagon 'Album' and one of them is already showing growth of the foliage. I have learned that this type of lily is making roots on the stem, so has to be planted rather deep.
The fact now is that this one is not so deeply planted in its pot and I feel it would not be right to cover the crown with soil in this stage when I plant it or am I wrong ? Another concern is what happens to this new growth if it freezes during the coming winter ?

That's a tough problem. As I understand it, lilies must go through the life cycle specific to their species to again produce a stem. In other words, produce a stem, produce a stem initiation within the bulb(during a warm period) and go through a winter period. So if the little stem sprout freezes, the bulb will have to go through a stage to initiate a new sprout. That means you won't have any above ground growth next year, but it should initiate a sprout during that year for the following season.

Maybe someone from a warmer zone would have a better idea, but I think what I would do is keep it potted, and at a temperature as close to freezing as possible. (A degree C below freezing would be even better.) This will keep the sprout from growing more. When your outside winter temperature is about the same, plant it outside.

If you plant it outside now while it's still warm in your climate, I think it will grow too much and freeze back. Then you'll need to wait a year for any new growth.

Thanks Leftwood!
The weather here has been pretty cold the last days although I had no frost yet in my enclosed garden.
I always have a couple of degrees warmer than in more open areas, perhaps I should change my Zone into zone 8b. The night temperatures are balancing around 5°C.

No, I haven't personally seen any roots on stems of martagons, but my experience is very limited as I am fairly new in growing lilies. The information I got through my bulb encyclopedia where it states that martagons should be planted 12 cm deep as they make roots on the stem. The book is written by renowned Dutch bulb experts so I tend to believe that they know their stuff.

Perhaps it would be wiser to keep it in its pot like you suggest and put it in my little garden shed until next spring.

Becareful about the shed. My shed (in the open sun) can get warm in the late winter, enven here in zone 4a. I found out the hard way when tried to overwinter some hardy ice plants there to keep them dry. They started growing too early inside the shed, and then got frozen dead.

If you don't want to plant it, just sink the pot in the soil (outside the shed) to keep the cold temperature and pot soil more moist. Protect it from varmints if you need too. Don't worry too much about planting it when it is growing, but do it as early as possible in the spring, and try not to remove too much soil from the roots.

Thanks again for the useful instructions!
I don't think my little shed will cause the same problem like you had as it is open on two sides, in fact it only protects against the rain and the wind.

By this time of the year the sun hardly reaches my garden because of the low position of the sun and the walls that enclose it.

Something very weird is going on with this martagon!
Today I discovered the crown is packed with flower buds!!!!!!! Is this lily completely confused ?
What should I do now ? I cannot leave it outside as it will get frustrated with a total lack of sun and possible frost in the coming dark period. Perhaps I should move inside the house and put it on my attic where it will be cool but will get some sun and plenty of light from my big attic window?
It was the only one of a whole lot of about 40 L.martagon 'Album' in that nursery, that showed that new growth and I picked it out just for that reason...
Another weird thing is that the stem is so short, only a couple of centimeters, it will look very strange when the flower buds open...

the whole crown packed with flower buds;

hmmm. Not much for leaves, just buds? Almost sounds like it is reacting to freezing followed by really warm weather. makes for stunted growth.

I thought I saw buds forming in your first pic bonitin. This reminds me of the yellow turkscap I bought late on ebay last year, it had been shallowly planted in a pot waiting to be sold, and was making buds soon after the growth left the soil. As it was a L. pyrenaicum of sorts it was an early flowering type so I guess it's biological clock was pushing them.

BUT, at this time of year they shouldn't really be forming new growth. One of my pots of seedlings I grew last winter has made lots of lush new foliage as if it's in a new growth cycle, where others are just slowly dying back, I will have to check on the name but I think it's one of Lefty's. Thanks Lefty! These are in a greenhouse which does get warmer of course but night temps have been down to 1C to 5C fairly regularly, that may also have triggered this particular lot of seedlings into more growth. Usually lilies here are sold for planting in the ground from October to November and again February to March, which gives them time to establish both sides of the colder weather. Buying them already planted in pots where they may have had under cover conditions could have had a similar effect on yours bonitin.

I am wondering if the cold summer we had, then a short warm period in October, has made them think we have been through winter. I think your summer was as bad as ours bonitin, with many days 14-16C and as low as 12C MAXIMUM in July, so that could easily imitate a complete winter cycle and the coming of spring as it warmed up in October. Not only was the summer cold, but spring was much colder than normal also with winter temperatures of 6C in April.

Yes Wallaby, the summer here has been as bad as yours! Groawnnnnn.... I noticed that your weather almost always corresponds with the one over here!
The side of the huge greenhouse where the lilies were placed was completely open. I don't think the temperature would be much different than the one outside. Anyhow this was the only one that showed new growth, the others didn't...also not the whole lot of the non-'album'- martagons...
The other two lilies I bought (which behave 'normal')were also planted very shallow, even more with only 1,5 o 2 cm soil above them.

Curious how those buds seem to be encased in leaves (or at least bracts). Normal martagon spikes never have leaves near the flowers.

When the buds a large enough for you to remove, do it. It is clear that there won't be any complement of leaves to replace the drain of energy that the flowers would require. Flowers would be dwarfed and probably distorted anyway. Try to leave the bracts surrounding the buds intact. They might be the only source of energy production it will have. In other words, they might be the only leaves there are.

So we are past the point of possible growth stasis, which I had hoped for. The next thing is to let it go through its normal growth cycle rather hurriedly, so it will be on schedule next spring. Your attic in the window sounds like a good place for the next few weeks, then I am thinking bring it down in the house for its warmer "summer". The sunniest window inside is like shade outside as far as light intensity, so put it in a sunny window, south if you can. Next, after a couple months, you'll need to figure a way to encourage it to go dormant. I am thinking that gradually withholding water will force this. My martagons grow in almost full sun and the heat hasn't affected their growth. They have been green right up to 2 weeks ago. So I am hesitant to say that heat might induce dormancy. Once the bulb goes dormant, ease it to refrigerator temperature, where it should stay for 1.5-2 months. Hovering around freezing, or even a degree C below would be ideal, but don't put it in the freezer.

This, of course, is all educated conjecture on my part. So if anyone thinks they might have a better idea, please jump in. We really need to get out Fox's Martagon book to see if he has anything relevant to say.

Thank you so much for all these valuable instructions!!
I am too curious to find out how these blooms would look like, so I'm not going to remove them...
But I will do like you advise to first move it for a couple of weeks to the attic, then give them 'a summer' in a sunny window in the warmer downstairs etc..

How about removing all the buds except one or two? The remaining flowers will be at least twice as big, compared to leaving all the buds to grow.

Now I must go back on what I said before, just a little. I was out in the garden, and pulled out my martagon type dead lily stems:
**Lilium tsingtauense - no stem roots
**Lilium 'Super Tsing' (L.martagon x L.tsingtauense(or vice versa)) - no stem roots
**Lilium martagon 'Terrace City' - no stem roots
**Lilium martagon 'Claude Shride' - very tiny stem roots, but a lot of them, forming collars around the stem. Dead and shorter now(1 cm), they probably only grew a couple of centimeters long.

yes, that's strange that only one of your maratagon types was making these tiny collar stem roots.
When I pulled out my dead martagon stems I didn't really pay attention whether they had these stem roots or not. I guess I would have noticed if they were prominently present. The book must be wrong after all.

I'm afraid I will be very unwise as I do not want to remove the buds, I am too curious what will come out, even if they stay very miniatuur it might give an interesting outcome......
I am willing to pay the price that it won't perform next spring.

Everywhere in horticulture, you will find experts disagreeing, and in reality, they might both be right! So good luck! The important thing is that you won't be so baffled with the outcome.

For in case someone is interested in the further outcome;

Mother Nature has been the wisest, as always...
From the about 20 flowerbuds that were on it only 4 are left, the others have been aborted. But she left me these 4 that look like there are going to bloom...

this is the whole lily, which is about 17 cm tall.

Cool! Be sure to show us pictures of the blooms, too!! We're expecting anywhere between 3 to 5 inches of snow here today, so any pictures of spring would be welcome. Thanks for keeping us posted on it progress.

how cool is that!

Thanks Ticker and Nanny!
No snow here, but miserable wet and dark weather! I would prefer snow to that!
I'll keep you updated!

I can't wait to see them pop open. Thank you, bonitin for sharing .

Thank you Magnolialover!
I didn't move it yet to the warmer downstairs, perhaps I should do that now, I just hope that the weather will improve and that the sun will come back ...

What a pleasant surprise for this time of year!

They should open very soon, I would put it somewhere a little wamer but not too warm, that might be too much shock.

We were supposed to have up to 14C today, no such thing, no sun either!

I'm not sure all those buds will develop properly, It kind of looks like some signs of malformation may already be visible, but we are all hoping!

I agree with Wallaby: if you can find a little warmer place but not too much warmer. The higher the temperature, the faster it will grow. But what also comes with higher temperature is the faster depletion of stored energy versus the ability to produce energy via photosynthesis. In other words, and within the temperature range for the plant, a plant grows slower in cooler temps, but tends to be healthier because it can store more energy. If your attic temp is about 10C, I'd leave the lily there. Bring it down when it actually flowers so you can enjoy it then.

Oh, how nice you're back, Wallaby :-)))))))
Hope your computer problems are finally solved!

Thanks Leftwood for the very valuable information!
I didn't move it yet and might leave it where it is. I checked the t° in the attic and it is between 13 and 14°C. So that should be ok.
The only thing that is a bit worrying is the total lack of sun and the poor light levels because of this miserable weather.
I was thinking of getting grow lights, but then am a bit afraid of the electric bill...

Yes bonitin, after a lot of hard work on my part, lol, I don't know if computer problems are ever resolved, always a risk.

We do have a little sun today with clouds flying past in the winds, it was 13C a little earlier. Have to get myself out to do some garden jobs.

;-(...snifff..... They didn't make it. I think about a week after my last post the lily gave up and its remaining flowerbuds fell off one by one.
I was so sure they were going to bloom. But the weather has been the culprit, that period was so extremely dark and dull, not one single hour of sunshine it got!
I didn't give the report earlier as I was submerged in computer problems that seem to be resolved now..

Leftwood you were right!

So sorry!

well, we have to assume mother nature knows best...even if we don't agree!

Take heart, the bulb wanted to build it's energy so it can give an even better show next time!

I think I learn more from my mistakes than from my successes. I wouldn't call this situation a mistake, but it is times like these that make you think and ponder over the happenstance. If everything was hunky-dory ( fine), we hardly think about it.

Sorry to hear of you martagon's demise, Bonitin, but I have good news. Read on.

Since I have been forced to take an hour lunch at work now instead of a half hour, I have nothing to do for 30-40 minutes every day. (I never go out to eat, but bring my own lunch). So I have been reading Eugene Fox's book on Martagon Lilies, page by page.

Although your lack of sun certainly aggrevated the situation, Bonitin, it seems your experience is not uncommon with martagons. Besides the newly planted bulb just not coming up at all the first season (that we all have talked about before), other common scenarios are emergence with dwarved stem and foliage, buds dying before they bloom, and early (sometimes immediately after emerging) withering of the stem and foliage.

But whichever of these cases, the bulb is still almost certain to be alive. It will come up again in its next season, probably with significantly less number of leaves, but of more normal size.

I am sure it now needs to go through some sort of preparation for the next season's growth, besides the normal vernalization (cold season). I will look in the book and see if I can discern some kind of time table so it will be ready to grow this summer again. Stay tuned.


This message was edited Dec 26, 2007 3:40 PM

Thanks everyone for the feedback!

Even if it just spends the year in recovery at least you'll be fairly sure it would bloom in '09.

From all I've heard and read - never feed a plant in distress and neither overwater or underwater it. You want it lightly moist but definitely not drenching wet. Good luck.

Thanks Pirl, I didn't feed it at all and always make sure its stays nicely moist but not wet. i've put it outside now in my little garden shed where it will be protected from the rain and harsh winds.

Great! Good luck. Let us know how it does this year.

I didn't find anything in the Martagon book that exactly addresses my (our) query. But the plant will need to go through a summer season and a winter season before it will sprout up again. I think I would:

Step #1
If the plant is already completely brown, go to step 2.

f the plant still looks like the picture, with healthy green leaves, I would put it in the attic for another 3-4 weeks. Though it may look ugly, it can still gather enery from the sunlight to store it in the bulb. If it continues to wither while in the attic, getting more and more brown, that is a good thing. It means it is preparing for the winter dormancy period. If the leaves continue to be healthy for those 3-4 weeks, then withhold water (but not completely) after that period, and force the stem and leaves to die, and dormancy to begin.

2. When martagons (or any lily) are in its dormancy stage, very little water is needed. Keep the soil barely moist, as this is a critical time for bulb rot prevention.

3. I would make sure the bulb has 2 weeks in your attic temperature after the top has died. This hopefully will allow enough time to prepare for the cold dormant period.

4. Then put the pot in the coldest part if your refrigerator (but not the freezer) for 2.5-3 months. I don't think there will be enough cold for a long enough period outside in your zone to leave it outside in your shed, although you could for the first month. Perhaps Wallaby can instruct you better on this.

5. Bring the pot out the the refrigerator, and put outside. After a day, Water it well and water normally when a shoot appears.

I would be surprised if the lily produces a flower this coming season. And I would expect the stem to be short too. After all, it has had a difficult life thus far.

Thank you Leftwood!
The plant still looks exactly like the picture as I took it yesterday. I had put it in my garden shed yesterday, but took it back up to the attic (following your advise).

Regarding the refigerator verses outside: my only concern is that it may become too warm outside too early. It would be best to try to keep it dormant for 2.5 months, if possible.

So perhaps some tweaking is required here:
- from today, 2 more weeks in the attic
- then begin withholding water to force dormancy.
- 2 weeks in the attic after browning
- put outside, not in the sun and in the coldest area you can find. If you can dig a hole in the ground to put the pot in, that will help keep it cold.
- If it is exposed to the rain, an upside-down pot over it will help keep out excess water.
- don't worry about freezing temperatures outside. Even if it were to go down to -5C, the bulb would be fine.

I wouldn't worry too much about early warming either, it rarely happens here and Belgium is similar. Last April we were getting temps around 4-6C, around the 40F mark!

Well then, my concern is unfounded. Then I would stick to the my first method, except putting it outside instead of the refrigerator.

Any more sage advice Wallaby? Jump right in . . . .