How to keep pond clean?

We have a small Dinghy/boat lined with a rubber pond liner. It has Lily's, Pickeral rush, Iris, and some floating pond weed + gold fish and resident frogs. It gets full sunlight from mid morning, because I want the lily's to flower. Unfortunately I don't have a power source nearby and cannot run a pump/filter to keep the water clean, and as the water heats up, lumps of jelly-like Algae float to the surface (some of which we skim off) My thinking is that as the plants grow and cover the surface, there will be less algae, but wondered if anyone out there had an idea that would help the pond stay a bit cleaner untill until they do?

If you can cut down the fertility going into the water, fish food, plant fertiliser, tap water...

Clouding the water with koi clay (calcium bentonite) would supress algae, though that might take a day or two to clear when used. The clay molecules stick to the algae and sink to the bottom of the pond

Yup, plants that are effective at shading and competing for nutrients, will might make life difficult for the pesky green stuff

Regards, andy
http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/l42/adavisus/

Thanks Andy!
The water is rain/tank water as we aren't connected to mains here, and It is possible that when I potted the plants, there might have been slow release fert in the mix! I don't feed the fish as I think there must be plenty of little things living in the pond, due to seeing dragon flies, frogs, water snails and other unidentifiable creatures splashing about, But DH has an obsession with the pond and does tend to overfeed, against my advice/nagging, so that could definitely be an issue.
I've used a type of bentonite in my dam to seal it (Not worked all that well) So It may be that I can track down the one you have suggested and see how that goes. I do hope to have power on near the pond in the future, when I will install a bucket of bio-balls and a pump. I wonder how the clay would affect that, do you think? I suppose that as long as the pump inlet isn't down in the clay it should be alright.
Anyway, stuff to think on.
TRhanks again
Sue

Sodium bentonite is clumping sticky stuff, it would give a pump problems. Calcium bentonite dissolves better in water and does not 'stick' to pipes, metal, mechanical surfaces.

If you check out a search of koiphen.com with the search terms: 'koi clay gene' you can spend many on hour frolicking in the pro's and con's of using clays in an aquatic habitat.

Koiphen is one of the few remaining well moderated message boards where folk with a genuine interest in ponds, fishkeeping can have a chinwag without scamsters and looney toons trashing threads these days

If spouse is determined to grow algae big time, it may be your pond in a boat is nay, verily doomed to the plague of being the green lagoon

It is possible, with an excess of aquatic plants to have absolutely crystal clear water, where the plants remove almost all fertility within a couple of days and you have the opposite problem, figuring how much fertility to put in, to keep them perky and how easy it is to mulch the pesky ones that grow too fast.

A combination of parrots feather, water hyacinth, water lettuce, salvinia are aquatic plants that can be effective early in the season for the 'fast foliage' impact on ornamental ponds, to create shade, extract nutrients, improve water quality... Easy to grow, easy to thin out when water conditions stabilise.

While nursery trade folk would demonise such popular plants, bear in mind they may have the hidden agenda of trying to sell you more fickle pricey stuff that makes them more money...

Regards, andy
http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/l42/adavisus/

Do you know where to get any tadpoles? I have found in my little pond (about five feet around) that every spring there is the dreaded green water and algea. After they arrive the pond clears up pretty quickly.

Hydrogen peroxide is also supposed to work well at removing algea and green water, but I have not tried that.

The water is actually pretty clear, it is just lumpy,green, jelly stuff that covers the liner and floats to the top when the sun is on the water.
I have water lettuce (which I suspect the fish are eating) and Salvinia, but have given up on water Hyacinthe as it is soooo quick to multiply in our climate, and a proven, serious threat to our waterways. The water lettuce is on the weeds list with the local council, but I'm keeping it! Salvinia is also a serious threat, but like you say Andy, it mulches down well, and does look nice on top of the pond. I had some very small, fine looking floating weed, alot like Salvinia, but it too very quickly covered the top and was a pain to get rid of. I'm still finding the odd piece of it from time to time.
Hi Tetleytuna, I've not noticed about Tadpoles and Algae growth, but have got frogs in the pond. I think that goldfish eat the Tadpoles, so don't hold out much hope that they will eat the algae for me. I think they are seasonal, so you may have to google them in your area to locate some.
Thanks for all your help. I think I will keep scooping out the algae with the fish net and try to put a hurry up to DH about getting the power on. Meanwhile, the plants will keep growing, and maybe I'll find a bit more Salvinia.
Sue
P.s. What is this?

It sounds like the algae you are seeing are the surface coating type, not a big problem compared to smothering blanketweed or pesky single celled 'green water' types. Aquatic snails can graze that stuff to destruction

They are breaking up and floating through the day when the oxygen they make traps and makes them buoyant. Where the sides of the pond are smooth they can lose their grip.

I see the same thing happening early in the year, on ponds for tropical waterlilies where there is little foliage early in the year, surface coating algaes colonise large areas of pond liner with little to interrupt their development through the cooler Winter and Spring months

The surface coating algaes drift to the surface in clumps, for rains or time to break them up. They form a fertile silt on a pond where fertility was high and competition was low (before the trop lilies are planted out)

The bug photo is a dragonfly where the larvae has emerged from the pond and left the cast of its old form behind... Hmmm, that Nymphoides species looks like a pretty thing among the Salvinia minima... I hope you can photograph it when it flowers...

Regards, andy
http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/l42/adavisus/

This message was edited Oct 9, 2007 2:49 AM

Thanks Andy, is this the Nymphoides lily? I took this one last year in another pond, but have a couple of different sorts (white) and have put the floating babies in the boat pond. I haven't bothered potting them up as they dont seem to care.

Andy, I had a look at your link. Beautiful photos, although I must confess I only looked at the ones on display and didn't search. Always on limited time! Do you specialise in Water lilies and/or ponds?
I have another Lily that is very small, white, and fluffy! Soooo cute. I thought I had a picture somewhere, but can't seem to find it. (have 4 years worth of photos and if I didn't burn it to the flower disc, I've got Buckleys of finding it) When I find it i will post it for you to ID if possible. It would be nice to know their names.
I bought a new one last year, a Nymphaea(?) I think. Supposed to be yellow, but the Iris I bought from the same place (Yellow flag) is purple, so I don't know what to expect!
This pic is the wash tub pond. It's always crystal clear and is full of snails, and native guppies in one side and a goldfish in the other. You can see the small green floating weed in the right hand pond. I've almost managed to get rid of it. This one receives more shade than the boat. This was back in 05.
Sue

Hi, all. I think I'll get my 2 cents in if you don't mind.

Your pond is very creative: a boat lined with a liner. I love it. If there is no power and no filtration in there, you have to be very careful what you do to that body of water. The smaller the container, the harder it is to keep "clean" without filtration. You have to remember you don't want to put anything in there that you'll have to get out in one form or another later.

The algae problem you describe is clearly caused by a very large dose of fertilizer. An algae bloom is always caused by too much nutrients in the water. The water lettuce and the salvinia auriculata are great at removing excess nutrients from the water. My advice: put away the fertilizer for a bit. The floating plants will remove the excess nutrients and things will get back to normal, given time. I am a big fan of salvinia auriculata's nutrient absorbtion powers.

There is one quick fix for your problem: copper-based liquid algaecides sold at nurseries. They won't harm the lilies, the floating plants, the emerging plants, the fish, the snails, toads or anything you may have living in there. But they are murder on algae. Again, if you chose to go that way, please read the manufacturer's directions and follow them to the letter. You'll have clear water within a few days as the algae keels over for good. After that, it's just a matter of not shoveling the fertilizer into the pond.

You mention fish in there. As soon as the water is above 55 degrees Farenheit, there is no need to feed the fish. They will clean the place up and you won't have to resort to algaecides in the future.

Best of luck with that.
Sylvain.

Thanks Sylvain for your input. I haven't fertilised anything in the pond at all, but mentioned earlier that there was possibly fert in the purchased potting mix, although all plants have been in the pond for at least 3 months so should have used all fert, or it would have leached.
The boat has an overflow at the stern and with our regular rain is flushed frequently.
I did try a hessian bag of hay, which was supposed to draw Nitrogen from the water as it broke down, but it didn't appear to have much effect, (until I removed it). Whats 55 farenheit in Celcius? It gets about 27 celcius now, but may go as high as 32 in mid summer (I'm guessing) as the liner is black. Hopefully the plant cover will cool it down.
I do think the problem is beginning to lessen, as me and DH have been frog spotting the last few days and have been taking notice of the algae. I scooped alot of Salvinia out of a big tub of Cyperus papyrus and spread it around the surface, so it's now at least 1/2 covered.
We used the boat as a pond because it was too leaky to fix up and use down the creek. I got my hands on some recycled aluminium strips used on flooring joins and pop rivetted it over the liner above the water line. I had to glue the liner as it didn't come in the right dimensions and was going to be expensive and wasteful if I bought it as one piece. So far it has held well, and the join is on the top of a seat with a huge overlap going down each side of the seat. I put carpet in the bottom of the boat first. The seats are great and make a good spot to place water plants like Acorus and Iris (bog plants i guess) I just wish i could hide the pots!
The pic is of the pond garden beginnings. You can see the liner and how it is attached and the overflow at the stern (where the motor would normally be) There is heaps more plants than that now!

Hi Sue,,
Your surface floating weed might be azolla or duckweed, if you google images of those you may recognise the plant and its name. On a modest size pond a harsh mist spray can blast those to one side, making it fairly easy to extract for mulch.

Your white water lily might be Hermine, I'll try a petal count another time and see if I can sspot a match with named descriptions.

The white fuzzy lily, ahah, that sounds like Nymphoides cristatus, at first guess

Ummm, if you consider copper based algaecides, bear in mind, over .3 ppm will kill algae, over 1ppm depending on the temperature and the ph, fish, tadpoles and water breathing insects are likely to be exterminated, some copper sensitive aquatic plants such as Hornwort will be destroyed, water lettuce will be damaged, big time. you reeeeally need know what you are doing with that stuff...

You might google 'msds copper sulfate' for that stuff

Regards, andy

Just had to jump in and say that's a very creative pond! Great job. Hmmm...now to find a boat... ;o)

55 degrees Farenheit works out to be 12-13 degrees Celsius.

Sylvain.

Thanks all. Hi songs of joy! I've seen your garden diary. You have the best waterfall! What would you need a boat for?
I'm not going to use the copper based algaecide. I don't feel the problem is serious enough for that. I took a pic this morning of the surface growth after adding some more. I think I will just try for covering the surface and excluding light.

There is alot of frogs at the moment. They are "Eastern dwarf tree frogs" and are only 2cm long. Cute. I've been revamping the garden, removed 2 clumps of a blue glaucous grass and I pruned back some African fountain grass that shaded the pond last year. I also placed a piece of driftwood and a seat for DH when he's frog spotting.

driftwood and seat

African fountain grass beginning to reshoot after a severe prune.

The same grass in march 07

Songofjoy,

if you cannot find a leaky boat why not try old bathtubs. They hold about 55Gal, have drainage hole already, easy to find and cheap, too. Around my area they can be found for about $10. You can build a frame and cover the sides with wood or just plant a lot of plants around it.

The wife of my concrete man made a pretty pond with a waterfall on one end using her old bathtub. Just my two cents,

Sita Brothers
Lone Oak, TX. z-7b

Hi Sita Brothers.
Wow $10!
A Bath tub would have been my first choice, but they are quite expensive over here, even seconhand or from the tip! Upwards of $75. Mind you, this old boat did cost more, but it was originally bought as a boat for fishing.
I got a set of concrete twin laundry tubs that work well. They have a drainage hole each. However I had to seal one tub with a painted pond sealant as the concrete had cracked. They're good now.
Hey, anyones 2 cents are welcome! (is there such a thing as 2 cents?)
Sue

Thanks for the kind words about my waterfall, Sue! But haven't you ever heard that no one can stop at just one pond? LOL. Actually, I'm really not looking to build another pond - maybe just a fountain or two. But your boat pond is so cute and creative that I think I'd have to copy it if I ever came across a discarded boat!

You're all welcome to copy the boat. Its not like you're right next door! Actually, a man down the road is doing the same thing now, but I'm at the start of the street and he's at the end, and they'll see mine first, and my whole garden looks nicer than his so I don't care! LOL
I actually got the idea from another neighbour who had one in the place when they moved in. It was very dilapidated and had no liner or fish or plants and then thier dogs took to swimming in it and it kinda went down hill after that! It doesn't exist anymore!
So it's by no means an original idea, but nice none the less.
I know what you mean songsofjoy, about needing more ponds. We have a dam (not very atractive but have plans for that) the boat, the twin tubs, and a swimming pool. Not to mention 2 bird baths, so everything has a place to swim/drink/cool off. I would like to make a natural looking running creek, but I think it's a bit beyond me.
Sue

My dogs decided the concrete twin tubs needed a clean and removed all the water lillies and plants. Oh I was sooooooo happy! NOT!
Anyway, it got a clean and I was able to save a couple of lillies (I think) and the gold fish. Now I'll have to put some mesh over the top. I wonder what sudden urge struck them?

All those leaves on the water were actually unattached to anything, and the ground around the tubs was littered with roots and mud and broken pots! Little Buggers!

Ok so home again to another big mess! Once again everything removed and chewed! So out with the mesh and cutters and wah-lah a mesh top. UGLY! At the mo the plants are just bobbing around on top, but when i get a moment, I will pot them up. I hope the dogs don't decide to go the boat pond! I think I'd cry!

What a clever idea and so lovely to look at. I have paddles you could have for your boat;)))

ohhhhhh! paddles! Yes please Posyblossom! How much to send them to Australia? LOL

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! I bet that shipping cost would sink my boat!!!!!!ROTFL

The mesh I have been forced to put over the tubs to keep the dogs from fishing!

Pennsylvania dogs don't fish so I won't have to cover my pond;)

Well, I thought Coffs harbour dogs didn't fish either! Boy was I wrong!
Todays effort will be to pot up the wreckage of the water lilies and hope that one or two will survive. Fingers crossed?

Now that you mention it,there have been some dogs on the loose around here,drinking from my pond. Suddenly I am suspicious of ulterior motives. Now my fingers are crossed too!

There was a cat drinking from the pond earlier in the season and my aim is so bad with the bb gun, I hit him. He jumped right in the pond and clawed his way out,then ran away. I felt terrible because I love cats and would never hurt one. Payback was brutal though, because he punctured the liner in two places and what a time I had repairing that leak. He still comes back now and then,gloating I think;)) Serves me right!

LOL. I would love to shoot a cat with a rubber band gun! Something that scares them but doesn't make them bleed! I find squirting them with a water spray bottle is quite satisfying, (momentarily) I just had to replace the insect screen at the front door, after 6 years of moggie hanging off it when he demands his dinner! I have to replace 3 along the veranda too, at a cost of $100. Hubby didn't think about the extra costs involved when he bought home the little scrawny stray! He also drinks from the pond, but is too lazy and weel fed to fish.
I have heard that some lilies are edible, so think the dog may have discovered that. As he is just a pup, he is a bit of a glutton! Hopefully, in time, I will be able to remove the mesh.
Does PA stand for pensylvannia then?

Pennsylvania it is. We have a scrawny stray cat too. Nothing scrawny about him now. He weighs 15lbs. but he's not fat. "Stretch" has been here for 5yrs. He does some of the same things your cat does and he has cost us $2000 in vet bills since he's been with us. If anyone ever said we'd spend that much money on a cat, I would have said ,"Not US,no way". I didn't even think we liked cats till he showed up in January one year,half dead with Hypothermia. He has completely taken over our lives and he has to be the most spoiled cat that ever lived,well next to yours that is;))))

Oh, ours is rather large also. He was from a litter of kittens dumped at a Tyco pipe yard. His siblings had all bee squashed by the heavy traffic, and my husband thought he would save this one. And so its called "Tyco" or Phsyco as I call him. He lives on the front veranda, where he has a nice comfy chair, and can guard his dinner bowl from the magpies. I even put a gate at the top of the stairs, so that the dogs can't get in and harrass him. He will only put up with about 5 pats before turning on the hand that feeds/pats him and sinking both teeth and claws in. He never really tamed up!

The pickeral rush in the boat has come into flower

The pitcher plant is growing new pitchers. They are interesting as they start out flat and slowly grow larger, then the top flap opens and they fill out! They are a favourite hiding place for the frogs!

This one was watching me!

Flower forming on a Pickeral Rush.