Cardinal Climber, Solteri Apricot Candy and Cypress Vine

I've been waiting for these to bloom at the same time... poor Cypress Vine, I've been feeding that thing for a long time to keep it alive for this moment..

Cardinal seeds mine
Solteri Apricot Candy Emmas
Cypress Vine Ron's

Photo 1

#2 photo sideview

Nice comparison of these 3 small MG blooms! I had Cypress vine growing, but got concerned about it spreading too much, so pulled them up. I will regrow them in a pot instead of the ground. I may grow them with Cardinal Creeper too! :-) Those Solteri Apricot Candy vines of Emmas are just too cute for words!!!

Pretty little glories

very pretty

Here is a better photo of these guys closeup.

apricot candy...

cardinal climber (cypress vine was not blooming today).

too, too pretty

Lovely flowers and great photo's A.

Very striking together.

Hi, Gourd,--Very interesting to see all three of your vine blooms together. Thanks for showing them.

I have been confused by the differences between Cardinal Climber and Cypress Vine and it looks like there isn't much of difference besides the leaf shape---would you say that is correct?

I grew white and red cypress vine and a red cardinal climber this year thinking they would bring in the hummingbirds, but I didn't see any of the little birds checking them out. Did you by chance have any hummingbirds visit yours?

And do you know--are these vines perennial for you?...I am not sure where you are located...or are they annuals everywhere?

Thanks...t.

p.s. Your pretty pic would be great for Plant Files to show the differences....

This message was edited Oct 10, 2007 5:51 PM

tabasco - The PlantFiles already has some very excellent zoom-ins and zoom-outs of both Ipomoea species you are referring to..

The flower shape and foliage is very different when seen in the photos and especially in person...

Ipomoea quamoclit
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/164191/

Ipomoea sloteri
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/21628/

Hope that helps...

TTY,...

Ron

ron, thanks--

so, do you know what the vine is called that has a flower very similar in color and size to the cypress vine with the threadlike leaves except the leaves are heart shaped? (sorry, I don't have pic)

I thought it was cardinal climber, but I guess not...

Thanks. t.

tabasco - It sounds like you are referring to one of the following Ipomoea species...

The entire web and many photos in our own PlantFiles are absolutely full of photos with incorrectly identified photos because the following 2 species must be identified by very close examination of the pedicel behavior and the manner in which the sepals cover the seedcapsule...

The following photos are correct:

Ipomoea hederifolia...seedpods always remain erect
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/156921/

Ipomoea coccinea...seedpods always reflex
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/98596/
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/140727/
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/139580/

Hope that helps...

TTY,...

Ron

Ah, yes, I believe it is the I. hederifolia.

I will check the seed pods in the morning just to be sure.

I had no idea there were so many small red flowered vines...very interesting...

Thank you very much for your guidance.

tabasco,
Just wanted to tell you that I haven't seen at least ONE hummer near any of these plants.. and I have some feeders out too, right now they are empty (and they are still around, because they come straight to the feeders and ignore everything), so you would think they would head to these flowers, but they do not.

I don't even see any butterflies near the MGs either..

The I. quamoclit cypress vine is star shaped and the other two have the same shape, (cardinal climber and Sloteri Apricot Candy). Yeah, we need other flowers for the butterflies and hummers, sometimes these three types are overrated for butterflies....

Thanks for the compliment on the photos..

A.

I have both cypress and cardinal. I started the cardinal from seeds (the package called it cardinal/cypress) but when it grew the leaves were not ferny like what I knew cypress should look like. My neighbor dug up some of his cypress and brought it to me. I see hummers every morning on them, but since they are both in the same huge pot and the vines are twined together and blooming way up on the fence so I haven't been able to check out the difference in the blooms. I pulled off some of the cypress accidentally while weeding that pot and stuck it in some moist soil hoping it would live and root and the next day it was still green so I kept watering it and it rooted!

This message was edited Oct 10, 2007 9:41 PM

maid,
will you please send those hummers over here to educate these ones..lol. Great job on rooting those by the way.
A.

Sure! LOL That's the only place I see the hummers. I remember many years ago at a little portable nursery on the freeway in a parking lot seeing the cypress vine all over the chain link fence surrounding it. I thought it was gorgeous! I asked the lady who ran the nursery what it was and she gave me some tiny little black seeds but warned me to watch it because it would get away from me. She said all that growth had occurred in a single season. It was all over that fence! I planted them but they never grew. I was not a gardener back then so I am not surprised. LOL
When my neighbor gave me that little pot I put it in a huge planter hoping to control it. This is it's first year and it's nothing like that little nurseries was but it's bloomed all summer even as small as it is. Maybe hers had the chain link to grow on and this one only has my 7 foot pencil cactus as a trellis then the cedar fence so no place to twine and go. It's right next to some castor beans so maybe it'll reach over and grab a leaf and take off.

Thanks, Gourd and Maiden, for your hummingbird report. I didn't see any HB activity on mine, either, and that's why I planted them. My HBs liked the McNectar in the feeders!

I wonder if Hummingbirds like regular red morning glories? Any thoughts?

By the way, Gourd, where are you located? Down in TX, too?

I assume these vines are annuals, but maybe not? Or maybe perennial in mild climates, perhaps?

Thanks again. t.

I'm right on the Border near El Paso and NM (I've got to fix my location under my name). I don't believe they are perrenial here, even when I was living in CA the Cardinal Climber was annual. In CA the hummers ignored it also. But I had a ton of butterflies there, although I also had several passionvines intertwined with it, so that accounts for the butterflies.

Antoinette

I am not anything even close to a hummingbird expert,but I have read that hummingbirds will reliably go to the sources which have the most abundant nectar...

I have a concern that the sugar water that is used in HB feeders may have a longterm deleterious effect on HB's...

1) HB feeders are usually just sugar water and real nectar is NOT just sugar water but also contains small but important amounts of amino acids and trace minerals...
HB feeders may cause HB's to become nutritionally deficient and/or imbalanced by not providing important nutrients like amino acids and trace minerals

2) HB feeders may cause HB's to depend on 'artificial' sources for food and effectively prevent them from foraging for natural sources of nectar that contain the additional nutritional factors which may be important for longterm health...

I'm wondering if any scientific longterm(!) studies have been conducted to examine the effects of HB's feeding only on pure sugarwater as compared to HB's that feed on nectar...and if supplementing the contents of HB feeders with any amino acids and trace minerals would be a better nutritional approach to HB feeders than pure sugar water alone...

Do different types of HB's have different nutritional needs as per types of sugar and ratios and ratios of other nutrients(?)...

I"m aware that honey is not good for HB's because the propolis content reduces vital intestinal bacteria...

What ratio of the various sugars are best for HB's(?) and would the addition of sugary syrups from other sources like dark molasses,dark corn syrup,maple syrup,birch syrup etc be more beneficial to hummingbird health than pure white sugar alone(?)...

Anybody know(?)...

TTY,...

Ron

Hi Ron,

They sell a nectar that you still have to mix with water and sugar with nutrients. I have a gallon left I think, I'll check out the ingredients on it if it is still around, I usually throw them out if they are expired so don't know if I have it around. Right now the feeders are empty. Yes, they definitely need more nutrients than just sugar.. also, they need to be cleaned every week at least, in the summer, more than that, they get mold, and ants go up there and deposit some kind of fungus too..

I use bleach water to kill bacteria before i refill.. I bet the Bird Forum has alot of answers to this one.

From what I have read and been told by Hummingbird experts:

Hummingbirds will use feeders, though certain times of the year they prefer plant nectar and also need insects for protein. Especially when nesting or migrating. I have heard folks say that they won't use their feeders at all instead prefering to sip the nectar of blooms. Others say they use their feeders during certain times of the year especially in drought conditions. (Probably to stay hydrated.) There has been a lot of research about this and so far nothing substantial has shown up concerning feeders. They do say that dyeing the water is bad and definitely to not use artifical sweeteners or honey.

Interesting points, ron. I'm not sure anyone really knows the answers or has good follow-ups to your points. Since there are about 12 kinds of hummingbirds, no doubt all with different behaviours and requirements, there are probably countless answers and opinions, too.

Nevertheless-it seems like the consensus is that the nectar is a supplement to the regular diet of insects (85/15) and that, yes, there are some nutrients missing in the sugar/water solution but it's not a critical lack that won't be made up for at some other time.

Some researchers say the ideal ratio of sugar to water is 18% but the article I read said that can easily vary just as the nectar in flowers varies in richness according to time of day, age of flower, etc., etc. Very interesting aspect of flora and their pollinators.

I haven't seen any documented research recommending using different sugars except white sugar which most closely approximates the sweetener in nectars and statements to not use honey, molasses, brown sugar and maple syrup (and I don't remember if they stated why not to). And the old admonition not to use the red coloring but one expert said there was no evidence that this was harmful, it's just that nature doesn't have red coloring, so why should we add it. (not very scientific, but it makes sense!)

...Don't know, but I do know that we have had a lot of fun with our hummingbird garden and the feeders and learning about these little birds. And by the way, did you ever say which ones of your Morning glories are the most attractive to the HBs? It would be interesting to know...just for the record (and for my garden!)

BTW We have a new Hummingbird Research project starting up near us at Miami University and I hear it is one of several around the country that just got funding in the past couple of years so perhaps we will know more about the HBs needs/habits/behaviours in a few years...

t- I just have one question to ask .... your location is stated as Ohio. You said, "We have a new Hummingbird Research project starting up near us at Miami University " .... is there a Miami University in Ohio? I always associate Miami with Florida. And Ohio is a very long way from Miami! LOL!

tabasco - THe Morning Glories that are most attractive to hummingbirds in my area of New Jersey are the small reddish colored ones and Ipomoea sloteri grows particularly robust here...

I will say that the very first hummingbird that I ever saw was regularly feeding from my Ipomoea tricolor Heavenly Blue and that was in the early 60's...I have seen them occasionally visit Ipomoea tricolor since then...

I would never add US certified colors to anything I eat and wouldn't inflict it on any animals...all of the US certified artificial colorings are based on

1) coal tar - long known to be carcinogenic

2) aluminum - seriously correlated with Alzheimers...

All of the US certified artificial colors are known to be carcinogenic and are banned even from cosmetics in Sweden...

Red colored nectar may not exist in Nature but I believe that Nature can be 'supplemented' and in that way 'improved upon' without deleterious effects...sometimes...

TTY,...

Ron

Yes, 'Miami University' is located in Oxford, Ohio. (You are of course referring to 'University of Miami' in FLA, a different entity entirely.) 'Miami University' is a public institution in Ohio, founded in 1809, and is primarily for education of undergratuates. It has 20,000 students. A very very nice school with a very picturesque campus (and a big nature preserve).

I just saw a blue morning glory yesterday with a hummingbird buzzing around it. Rather late in the season for hummingbirds here, but this was a really really big morning glory display at the garden center and I think the HB hurrying south just couldn't deny herself a sip!

I will try the I. sloteri next season. And the tri-color Heavenly Blue. A DGer sent a nice array of seeds so I am excited to try them. Must get a big trellis, though. I thought maybe I. 'Scarlet O'Hara' would be a real lure to HBs. (It is so pretty and very 'red' from seeing the pics on the thread, anyway!)

I wouldn't use the artificial coloring either if I had a choice. Our family was just talking the other night about one of the scandinavian companies (can't remember which one) which leads the world in production of additives for flavor and color. (i.e. additives for all the sports drinks--big business I guess) Oh, well...

Sorry to get off topic. Interesting thread, though, and good info about MGs. Thanks.