What to look for in seed packages...

I was wondering if any of you were looking at the seeds from seed packages...

1. Do you grow the odd ones, very big or very small, unusually shaped....
2. When you grow them, do you tag them with a remark?
3. Can you recognize from the seed shape if they are tricolor, purpurea, or nil?
4. If a seed is light-coloured, can one tell if it is going to be white, red or cream, just from the colour of the seed....
5. Let's say you pollinate a white flower (light-coloured seed) with the pollen from a blue coloured seed (dark), will the pollen determine the colour of the seeds in your F1 and make them all dark, since blue is dominant over white?

Martin

#1 I try to get them all started...I paid for them and I want every plant I can get!
#2 Just a name (cultivar)
#3 tricolor are very pointed at one end and blunt at the other. Purpurea and nil have similar shapes but nil seeds are usually bigger.
#4 For instance, a white purpurea is usually a Sydney or a white bloom.
#5 I have found MG color to be more complicated than just dominance over recessiveness, probably because there are so many modifying genes!

Just my humble opinions!

I pointed out to an ebay vendor that the seeds from ONE plant were both dark and light, she came back saying it had to do with the exposure to sunlight. Like one seed pod being below on the plant and the other one higher up, I doubt that...but the I am a MG greenhorn...


Martin

These are the seeds...

Any opinion?

Martin

Those look like purpureas. The opinion that the light seeds are light because of sunlight isn`t true. I doubt those are from the same vine. You could have been fooled into thinking it was the same vine because the flowers were all so similar exept one vine set tan seeds and the other vine set dark seeds.

The seedcoat colors are controlled by genes. I do not know if the seedcoat and the color of the flower is related to each other. The darker and lighter seedcoat versions of some of the nils give a hint that they could be independant factors. I have seen dark color flowers with light tan seed coats and very dark almost black seeds produce light color or white flowers.

When you begin to cross morning glories you can observe blending where traits from both parents can be expressed at the same time in the flowers. You can also observe dominance and recessiveness. You can also observe that F2 seeds from crosses will recombine genes in predictable and very unpredictable ways depending on what you are working with at the time.

Karen


This message was edited Sep 25, 2007 9:03 AM

I dont' believe sunlight affects seed color.

Sunlight affects the seed color as it dries when its harvested prematurely. Not the tan/black difference, Im talking about the black seeds looking brownish, rather than black and the tan seeds looking more dark and yellowy than the creamy tan. That is what I think the vendor was refering to. I dry my seeds in envelopes and they always look better and are bigger than ones that dry fully on the vines.

I have opened a pod prematurely and found tan seeds, but always assumed they were not mature and would not grow. I guess I should try them anyway.

So we have just established that these are most likely purpurea seeds and that there is no relationship between the picture and the content of the package (because if the seeds were sold 10 years ago in America, how come they know sell the very same types in Germany?). The picture does show tricolors and nils (petals will always tell according to Ron), which still leaves the question where does the "halo" come from because that's a typical characteristics of nils and I have never seen it in purpureas...

Martin

Just grow em all and enjoy the blooms! Tag ones you like as they will likey readiliy self-seed. 99% positive purpurea seed, larger seed might be nil.

That`s a good recommendation. Some of the nil seeds such as youjiro and kikyo seeds I have seen are small and could pass for purpureas. The true test is growing and thats 100% of the fun. Karen

Martin - Everyone of your querstions could potentially be the topic of a single thread...


I'm going to run through this fast

The photo here
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=4010719
shows a plant with a relatively dark blue corolla and a pink corolla

The dark blue flowered plant is almost always a dark seed like the dark purpurea in the photo here
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=4014904
the pink blooms are more usually produced by the beige seeds in the seed photo...

"3. Can you recognize from the seed shape if they are tricolor, purpurea, or nil?"

I've learned to ID may species from photos of the seeds alone but this takes years of being very familiar with details...

"4. If a seed is light-coloured, can one tell if it is going to be white, red or cream, just from the colour of the seed...."

Dark seeds tend to produce darker pigmented plants and blooms but not always

Light seeds tend to produce lighter pigmented plants and seeds but not always...

"5. Let's say you pollinate a white flower (light-coloured seed) with the pollen from a blue coloured seed (dark), will the pollen determine the colour of the seeds in your F1 and make them all dark, since blue is dominant over white?"

No there are multiple modifying factors...

I'm finding that I need to keep referring back to the link I first posted to the list of MG genes on Dr.Yonedas site...

There are many types of white some dominant and some recessive and modifying factors...


To say that white is always recessive in animals and so therefore is always true in plants is jumping to conclusions before properly and thoroughly familiarizing oneself with the basic references linked to...

Do not be so quick to jump to conclusions...

"The picture does show tricolors and nils (petals will always tell according to Ron)"...

I can usually ID from the petals but not always and I never anywhere or anytime stated that I could...I do rely heavily on the SEPALS for identification of species...

Just the fax...

TTY,...

Ron

I was referring to sepals for identification and not the seeds, Ron. By the way, these purpureas are not related to the photo of the seed package in the other thread. The proof of the pudding is in the eating as the English would say, so I will start some of the purpureas from that package next year...perhaps I'll find something interesting in there....



Martin