Jack - I have several different Aster plants in various garden beds that have been blooming most of the year. I think I may have seen one or two skippers on them. My plants are not as huge as yours, but it still doesn't seem to be a favorite with the butterflies here in Florida. I have noticed that my plants are really blooming now that it is Fall! Sure add some nice color to my yard even if my butterflies are too picky to appreciate it! lol
Butterfly magnet
marsue, if you wet those newspapers before you put them down, you won't have trouble speading anything on top. I plunge them into a 5 gallon bucket of water, then lay them down, laying and overlapping as I go. Manure isn't going to hurt being put over the newspaper. Maybe that's not how they say to do it, but the worms will work that newspaper and the manure. The manure is probably hot right now if fresh, so by next year it will be ready to be planted in. I never use wood mulch. I use Mushroom compost which is mostly horse manure.
marsue - I did garden beds around my yard similar to what you are doing. I added top soil in with the manure. And I also put down newspaper first. But when I did the bogless beds I used cardboard instead. Seems to have worked well for me almost a year later. I did the beds in Dec/Jan and planted in them in late March/early April. Seeds, not plants and my beds are now just loaded with all kinds of awesome plants. Some seeds didn't germinate at all. Probably gardener error, but most did! Once the beds die back, I will be adding more manure to it and re-seeding it with new stuff. Plus I hope that many of the plants come back or re-seed on their own from this year. Are you going to use seeds or plants in that new area?
This message was edited Oct 20, 2007 11:08 AM
Cardboard can be used anyplace instead of using newspapers. It's just harder to get a hold of. Cardboard doesn't break down as fast as newspapers do either. But then again, if you layer the newspapers, like 16 sheets thick, it takes awhile for them to break down too. Cardboard is great for use in an area that has some really tough weeds.
terryr; I told DH to wet down the newspapers but he said, "They'll get wet when it rains" and started throwing them on the ground. Then the wind started blowing which frustrated DH so he just started shoveling manure as fast as he could to keep the papers from blowing away! LOL Note: I didn't tell him "I told you so" when the paper started blowing in the wind.--They wouldn't have done that if they had been wet! LOL (but then what do I know?) Ha! and like tcs said, I am glad DH will get out there and help, even if he does have a bad back!
Becky, I will probably use plants in the new bed in the spring. I'm too impatient to wait for seeds to germinate. (I know, I have already investigated winter sowing--sounds like a lot of work to me--LOL)
debnes, I will put that weed in the plant ID forum later on--right now I have "places to go and people to see" LOL
That weed in the photo above is an Indian Heliotrope--it attracts butterflies, too, but some people say it is invasive; others say it wasn't invasive in their garden at all. However, once "my" heliotrope gets its roots into that horse manure, it might very well become invasive! LOL At any rate, I am going to leave it where it is and see what develops in the spring. My first plant for my butterfly garden--oh, happy day! Oh, wait, I forgot about the goldenrod that came up all on its own--it was first! LOL
marsue, I really hate to keep harping on the same thing.....invasive as in it takes over native flora and is listed by the state of AR? Or it's a garden thug and can be aggressive in your own yard?
The thing about the newspapers, if they aren't down right under the manure, the grass won't mind growing up thru it. My parents didn't want to wait for me to collect newspapers. They were "tired" of the pile of poo I bought for their house out on their driveway. So I had no choice but to just put it over the grass. The grass is now about 3' high and you can't see the plants. It's a huge "I told you so!!" and yes, since it's my parents, you're darn tooting I told them that! LOL!!
Terryr, when I used the word 'invasive", I was just repeating what I read over in the plant ID forum about Indian Heliotrope. Some people said it took over their flowerbed and others said they didn't have a bit of trouble with it, so go figure. That is why I am going to leave it where it is and see for my self what it does next spring. If it starts taking over, I will rid myself of it, one way or another, (as in Round-Up). Once several years ago I ordered something from one of the catalogues that was said to be a plant to repel mosquitoes because it had a lemony smell. It was a type of mint and it did smell like lemons but that thing multiplied like mice! I finally dug up the mother plant and threw it away but the babies kept right on coming up so I had no choice but to spray the whole area with Round-Up a couple of times. I can't remember the name of the plant or I would definitely put a big negative beside a photo of it over in the plant forum.
And about those newspapers: I did get DH to stop shoveling manure long enough to let me get the papers spread out. The wind was still blowing and as I would put down the paper, DH would throw a shovel of manure on top of it to keep it from blowing away. Sometimes the wind would change direction in mid-shovel and I would get a face full of you-know-what! Good thing it wasn't fresh! LOL Now DH is saying he wants to get a load of dirt delivered to put on top of the manure which defeats the purpose of making a lasagna bed anyway. I told you he never does anything "by the book". Oh, well, at least he is trying and if we have a nice bed of bermuda grass in the spring, maybe I can sell the sod! (and I will tell DH, "I told you so!") LOL
ROFL!!! :-)
If it just took over the flower bed, I'd label that as a being aggressive. But doing a search, it does look like it's an invasive plant/noxious weed. Which means it does spread into natural areas. I'd be careful. My parents have a second home in AR and they found Kudzu growing on the Corp land. That's not good.
Face full of manure is never good.....lol. Opens up your sinuses pretty good though! Doesn't matter how long it's aged....
I may pull up that "noxious weed" after all--sure don't want it being invasive or aggressive, even if it does have pretty little purple blooms.
I think kudzu travelled over to AR from Tennessee--there is lots of it over there and it is definitely invasive! The way I heard it, kudzu came here from another country, probably snuck into our borders by someone who actually liked it! It's a terrible vine that smothers everything in its path! Something like agent orange is probably the only way to get rid of it and that is not a very good solution. :o(
LOLabout the face full of manure and come to think of it my sinuses aren't stopped up this morning!
>>kudzu
looks like it was brought over from Asia in the late 1800's for erosion control.
now this looks like a nightmare ==> http://www.yahoolavista.com/kudzu/
**edit to fix link
This message was edited Oct 21, 2007 11:53 AM
Yup--that's kudzu all right--what a nightmare!
LOL -- [though i guess if you have it, it's not funny] but i guess that is what you'd call invasive.
Jmorth,
You should add your picture to the plant files.
tsc.....here's a link to the IL DNR list of invasive plants of IL. The list might surprise you.
http://dnr.state.il.us/lands/education/ExoticSpecies/photogallery.htm
We lived in TN for a while. Kudzu grows a foot in a day. No joke. It suffocates out all the native plants in it's path. I saw it covering up a barn and an old car sitting next to the barn. It's huge problem, just like Lonicera japonica.
http://www.inhs.uiuc.edu/chf/outreach/VMG/jhnysckl.html
Many people grow the Japanese honeysuckle, common name of Hall's honeysuckle. It's illegal to distribute in the state of IL though. Thank goodness. Most of these invasive vines were brought to the US for erosion control.
Here's another link to Kudzu
http://www.se-eppc.org/manual/kudzu.html
thanks for that list from the DNR, I have a link for Wisc that I have found helpful also.
just by browsing that front page of the IL DNR, i have quite a bit of that growing on the state property aside my home.
the teasel is probably one of the worst.
beckygardener,
The tall asters in my yard are native wildflowers as opposed to the shorter bred varieties. Maybe when they were selecting strains they bred the flying insect attractant properties out. I have a shorter "Wonder of Stafa" aster that started blooming in June, peaked in August, and is still with flower but on the FIAS (flying insect attractant scale) it rates a 2.5 to the New England asters 9.25. Tobasco and I think another poster reported asters with a low FIA rating
as well. Pic is A. frikartii (Wonder of Stafa).
pennyfeather,
Which one?
and, I agree, Kudzu is downright nefarious...my personal nemesis, the plant that troubles me the most is ground ivy.
LOL Well, I have to wait for DH to go out of town because he will have a cat fit if I make another garden. If he is gone while I make it he won't even notice there is a new one! (I get a helper in to do much of the shovelling).
DH is going to Boston today so now is my chance and I can get busy on it. Have lots of good ideas from all the posts.
And by the way, I think it's pretty hard to go wrong with the layers in the lasagna bed. Except the weeds growing up through the cardboard/grass and can be a problem so I use 'round up' on the grass first and let it 'work' for a week or two, then put the cardboard/newpaper down. (Now, please don't scold me for the use of round-up--I already feel guilty about it)
Surprisingly our garden is still blooming fairly well and the butterflies are still visiting. By next week, though, I think it will die off. The question is, will cutting it back and clearing it up result in removing all of the overwintering chrysalis and hibernating butterflies? I suppose this is a question for another thread, but it has been on my mind...
Great photo, jmorth! Down here we call those yellow flowers, "black-eyed Susans".
Terryr, I need to go to the UofA Agricultural Extension Service website and do some research on noxious weeds in our area.
I saw a Gulf Frit on the Pentas in my front flowerbed yesterday. I was going to try and get a pic but the wind blew the pretty little thing on his/her way before I could get my camera.
Tabasco, I like to tidy up and cut back etc too but I think when we do that we are taking away some of the existing seed heads the birds would benefit from AND denying ourselves some great self-seeding help from the flowers!
Too funny about the DH not noticing as long as you get the new flower bed done before he gets home! Better hurry!!
Jmorth,
Your picture with 5 butterflies would be great for the plant files. Not only does it show how much the butterflies are attracted, but it is wide enough view to give you an idea of what the entire plant looks like instead of just one bloom. Just seeing that was enough to make me decide I need to have this in my garden next year.
Tabasco, good luck with your gardening. If I add any more beds, I wont be able to work fulltime, and then I wont be able to afford more plants - its a vicious cycle!
terryr, I have been doing some research on the Indian Heliotrope. It isn't on the USDA's or the Uof A's list of "invasive plants or noxious weeds" so I am going to leave it where it is. . It grows throughout Arkansas and many other states in the Eastern U.S.. After reading some of the above links, I am getting a picture of "invasive" versus "aggressive" versus just being a "weed". Thanks for the links. Now KUDZU is invasive in anybody's book but not Indian heliotrope. That's all I know for now.
pennyfeather,
ok, I'll have to do that...I've actually got one pic thats better and has 7 Red Admirals in it; it's presently entered in the DG photo contest so I'll wait till that's over and then inject it into the insect files...
Here's a close up of the Red Admiral- Have you seen the cover of the
T & M seed catalog? It's very close to this photo.
Oh dear!! Jack,
Such a beautiful photo!!
Gasp!
debnes
Jmorth,
That is another great shot. What contest? That's what happens when I take time off from Dave's Garden. I am totally out of the loop - as usual.
Awesome photos!! My MIL is giving me some form of purple asters in the spring!! I am planning to put in a butterfly garden and am spending the winter planning the area. I want to focus on purple and yellow flowers. Now I know what I will do with those asters she is giving me. By the way, they are in full bloom now. Not sure just when they started flowering. I'll have to ask her.
pennefeather,
Here's the link - http://davesgarden.com/contest/2007/
Every year DG has a photo contest in the fall. The winners usual prize is like bragging rights. This year Dave has set up 12 categories and the winner's picture from each one will have the honor of their photo appearing in a 2008 DG calender. I never win but its great fun to enter.
The rules are delineated on the contest page, quite simple. Entries are limited to 2 per category and entries can be made till the end of October. November 1st is when the voting takes place and by the 15th the winners are to be announced.
J
sjweld,
Goldenrods bloom at the same time as New England asters and make a nice combination but their FIA rating leaves something to be desired. You might give some consideration for rudbeckias (if planted late they could bloom with the asters); some other yellow possibilies might be the native wildflowers like wild sunfowers of the Helianthus genus or members of the Silphium genus which include Cup plant, Compass plant, and Rosinweed.
J
Ok, J, I'm dense, what's FIA?
J, thanks for the info! Like Cord.though, I am clueless. What is FIA? I do have some Rudbeckia in another area. I may have to transplant some. I followed a link from this or another thread here to a site that lists all the butterflies by state/county. I am currently researching that as it also lists host plants for the caterpillar as well as the adult butterfly. I am so excited.
Could this be what FIA is?
http://www.fia.fs.fed.us/library/field-guides-methods-proc/docs/2006/core_ver_3-0_10_2005.pdf
Forest Inventory and Analysis
debnes
debnes That makes sense to me! I'm going with that.
Jack!
I m excited too because I know you will share what you find..:-)
debnes
Ok, I briefly skimmed the link about FIA and I think Jack may be talking about something different entirely than this link. From other posts and threads I've read, I believe there is a reference "somewhere" that measures the ability to draw butterflies to a particular plant. While I did not READ the whole thing, I sure did not see that document was going to include that kind of info... I'm hoping Jack will fill us in.
Oh Jack, Where are you??? Inquiring minds want to know. What is FIA????
LOL! my apologies...the FIA comes from the Oct 22nd (Post #4109554)
posting above here. FIA - Flying Insect Attractant. The term was coined by me to illustrate the high butterfly-draw of the New England Aster as opposed to the apparent relatively low appeal of some of the shorter- bred asters.
Ah, now we can all rest well tonight. THANK YOU :)
That Jack! ... (mutter, mutter,... making up HIS OWN terms and driving us crazy... mutter.. mutter...) Hehehe
No wonder we couldn't get to the bottom of it with internet searches hu??? LOL
HAHAHA Thanks Jack!!
Now you know you'll have to enter that one in on Wikipedia or something that will google, rofl!!
Ya got me!
debnes