l-town is getting big in a hurry. Takes 30 min or more to get across town now some days.
On the GH note. My wife and I discussed it and I think we're going to try one outside. We'll just have to level off some ground in our backyard. Worst case scenario is we bring it back in and use another halide. Being a newbie to gas heaters though, I'm a bit anxious about it... but I know a lot of you all use them. I was worried about the halide's at first too, but now that I know more, I feel comfortable with them.
Bringing the tropicals in for the season.....
AuntB, if you like morning glories do I have a plant for you...... make sure you stop by or send me your addie and get some seeds..... Brazilian Morning Glory - one of my all time favorite plants/vine.
Oooooo, I like mg's! -Got mail, vs!
I have several varieties of bananas in pots and they all go in my part of the garage except the chinese yellow, some how they survive the cold weather. Bellie
Reviving this old thread. Last night was our coldest night of the season thus far, around 36 at the house. I found it was pretty tough to keep the temperature in the portable greenhouse above 45F. I think if I had a more professional GH, it'd be fine or if I left a electic space heater on I'm sure it'd work. The gas heater would make me nervous considering the small space. And I can't put the larger GH outside bc it'd stick above the fence by over 3' (yeah I know the neighborhood rules are horrible, but that's the norm around here I'm learning).
So I've pretty much decided to go with the two 1000W MH lights. I'm sure it's more expensive than running a small heater out in the little GH, but at least everything will be in one place inside. Plus, when I brought everything indoors I found most of my tropicals were much larger and taller than I thought - and really can't even fit inside my largest GH anymore. In fact, I couldn't even fit half of them in it. Everything just looked smaller outside.
Maybe one day we'll be able to build a more solid GH in the yard (when we move or if the rules relax a bit). For now, I think the garage remains our only real option. Just not looking forward to that power bill.
I know the feeling!! We have a sunroom and my husband is not too crazy to turn on the heater and in Jan this year I lost a lot of my tropicals like plumerias and yalng-ylang so i told him this year that it will be heated. It is like a jungle in that room. SC is not as cold as here but plants are very expensive!! i consider them my big investments . I do not know much about green houses because my plants occupy the living room, dining room and sunroom. Good luck. Bellie
Just saw this thread. I'm very impressed you've gotten a little tropical paradise here in Kansas. I saw that someone down in Wichita had done it but I think the plants he chose were hardier- just had the tropic look to them.
Thought I'd bump this back up again since it's that time of year again. Learned a lot over the last year about having an indoor 'greenhouse' and thought I'd post a few things that may help others.
First and foremost let me say the two 1000W halides came through with great results. Only the plants that require direct sunlight for several hours a day showed any sighs of not having enough light (like my Christmas Palms and some Bananas). Other plants thrived and I even was able to get my Bird of Paradise to bloom for the first time ever. Even the hibiscus kept blooming.
1.) Heating, grow lights, energy costs, insulation, insulation, and insulation!! With the way energy prices have gone up, this year I have decided that running any kind of electrical or gas heater is out of the question. Metal halide lights, running at night, produce a nice amount of heat. It also allow you to keep an eye on them while you're at home. Last year I ran my halides, on average, about 14 hours a night. I may increase that this year since I have so many additional plants - I went from 53 to around 110 (no idea how that happened). In any event, the halides are nice for heat but still aren't enough on the coldest nights (below 25F here). I think I have solved my heating problem by purchasing an oil-based radiator for about $70. It's portable and rolls around and in the tests I've run is quite nice at producing consistent heat without torching my plants. It should use A LOT less energy than the electrical heater I used last year (which constantly was cutting on and off and jacked my power bill up). I also found out how poorly my garage was insulated and I have spent a lot of time insulating every crack and crevice. My garage door itself still posses the biggest problem, but I have some ideas for sealing it up too. Between better insulation and a radiator, I have higher hopes at keeping a consistent temperature in the garage this winter without spending a fortune doing it. I have also invested in two remote digital thermostats that will control the power to the radiator (versus the built in thermostat). I just don't trust the built in thermostats after seeing how my heater responded last year.
2.) Humidity and protecting your home from mold. Controlling the humidity is another issue I've faced doing an indoor greenhouse. So this year I may purchase a dehumidifier to help control the moisture. I have protected my garage dry wall this year by completely surrounding the "plant area" with tarps that go from the floor to the ceiling. They are about 5" off the wall for good ventilation and will ensure I don't spray any water onto them.
3.) Bend, but don't break the rules. I have tested my luck with the 8' greenhouse in the backyard and, to date, no issues. So I plan to use it this winter for my less sensitive plants that can take temps close to freezing and will also try and use a smaller radiator (if I can find one) out there. One really neat thing about the portable greenhouses I purchased last year (link above) is that I can connect another of the same size directly to the existing one. So if I need too, that's an option.
4.) Bring your utilities to your growing area. To help with watering and electrical issues I installed a faucet in the garage last year and that was a HUGE help with watering. This year I am going to install two new ground-fault electric outlets right beneath the breaker box as well to power the halide's and radiator independently from the rest of the house. Currently my garage and outside sockets are connected and at Christmas time - well let's just say that was interesting. So that should fix that problem.
5.) Kill the insects and fight the diseases. Use neem! One of the major headaches last year were the pests, especially aphids. This year I plan to give everything a good bath in neem before bringing them in. Between spider mites, aphids, and mealy bugs - thanks, but no thanks this year. Insecticidal soap (of all sorts/brands) and Immunoz just were not effective against most of the the insects - mainly spider mites and/or aphids. I also had a major issue with fungus in the roots of some larger plants like my Traveler's Palms - I even lost one. But with a good spraying of Cleary's 3336 fungicide and some Daconil to back it up, it cleared up my fungal problems in the roots of my prized tropicals. For the record, I did try beneficial insects, mainly predator mites - with some success. But they are expensive and one shipment didn't even survive. So I'm not sure how I'll use them in the future, if I will at all. I'm hoping neem does the trick, but if not, once it wears off I'll bring in the lady bugs and predator mites again. This year it seems to be mealy bugs that are my worst enemy - especially on pothos (hard to hit them all even with multiple sprays).
I think the real solution to tropical gardening is to live in a warmer climate, LOL. But for those of us who can't pick up and move, this entire thread should really be helpful. I'd still love to hear other folks thoughts and advice, and I'll certainly keep posting things in this thread I've found useful.
This message was edited Sep 5, 2008 11:20 AM
What species is the banana? I suggest digging the EE's, as others have mentioned, and putting up a two foot high circle of chicken wire around your nanners, that you would fill with leaves. If the banana plants are musa basjoo, which from the pix that's what they look like, cut the nanners down to the base after the first frost, and mulch 'em up.
My musa basjoos came back after last winter, with a vengeance, and they're ten feet tall. Next year I am going to plant musa itinerans "gigantea" well away from my house foundation, with soil heating and mulch.
-Joe
Keonikale, thank you for bringing this up again, I have looked for it. And for sharing your findings. VS, how'd your nanners do? Joe, You are making me want to try one in the ground again.. stop that! lol I bought 2 this year, not basjoos, so they will be inside this winter.. I'm real happy with them, but if I could get a basjoo to winter and grow 10ft..... how are you "soil heating" for the itinerans? Here's the Ensete, I really had fun watching the leaves unfurl..
With m. Itinerans, what I will be doing is planting it with reptile heat cable lining the hole I dig and probably threaded carefully through the root ball. http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/reptile-supplies/heat-pads-heat-panels-heat-cable-and-rocks/ . I read about this technique somewhere online. The idea is radiant heat from the cable will keep the ground warm enough to preserve the roots. With a foot and a half of leaves on top I'm thinking it should overwinter well.
Of course if it shorts out I'll electrify the lawn and fry anyone who leaves the sidewalk. It adds a whole new imperative to KEEP OF THE GRASS, doesn't it? :) But reptile cable is meant to be very durable, and it's water proof. I am not particularly concerned, especially if I only plug it in during the coldest weather, to a ground fault interrupt plug.
Here's a pic of the basjoo, but it's a few weeks old so they're missing a foot and a half. Their leaves now reach the top of the roof. :)))
-Joe
Now you've piqued my interest in this type of banana. How do you make sure you get the gigantea variety? I think it'd probably survive my winter here without a lot of mulching, so I'd love to give it a try.
The reptile cable idea, LOL. "Warning: Electrified Lawn"
Next I saw a STAY OFF the GRASS sign, I'd abide by it! lol That is a great idea, Joe! I have other uses in mind for it too.. Musa basjoo, Keonikale, they are pretty common, I can find them in the spring time at Lowes in Kansas.. I'm sure you can find one, or post a request in Plant trading, someone at DG may have pups to share.
Itinerans and Basjoo are the same? I thought they were different?
I have close to 20 basjoo already, LOL, so no need for any more of those, they are taking over as it is. I'm looking to expand to other taller bananas that are still hardy and won't require digging them up for winter. I probably don't need to dig up my Cavendish bananas, but likely will since they grow so slowly.
This message was edited Sep 7, 2008 3:19 PM
keronikale, you should be able to grow musa itinerans, ensete glaucum -- several varities with no problem in 8a. musa itinerans and musa basjoo are two entirely different species. :) I have no idea where to find musa itinerans, other than to keep an eye peeled on ebay come spring time. That's where I'll be looking. As for gigantea variety, it looks as if yunnan banana is just a synonym for m. itinerans var. gigantea.
I found seeds here http://www.natureproducts.net/Forest_Products/Bananas/Musa_itinerans_tall.html . I see lots of seeds. I suspect plants are available if we search carefully. :)
-Joe
P.S. See: http://www.bananas.org/f16/musa-yunnanensis-update-july-2008-a-5380.html
This message was edited Sep 7, 2008 9:56 PM
I have had Itinerans in the ground for 7 years here in zone6 with mulch. It preforms better than sikkimensis. I have heard that this is not the true itinerans but was sold as such by the TC labs. Either way it has survived here. It is narrow growing with thin trunks that have a powder on them and long narrow leaves. The giant form seems much different.
Thanks guys. I'll add that to the must have list.
I like the red variegation of musa sikkimensis. Musa sikkimensis would do well for you.
-Joe
Sorry, keonikale, I am usually confused! lol I really need to accept that I can't grow tropicals as hardy in zone 5.. but I'll have them as long as I can find help to haul them in and out of the basment. I am testing your P.China here some year, Brian.. construction of my ee berm, postponed until next spring..
AuntB and others. I think the future will be very bright for us northern growers. All I can say is certain Colocasias and bananas with mulching or some protection should be able to live in zone5. I believe P China will be a weed for you but it will need a good spot in the yard to thrive.
I have Giant Darjeeling sikkimensis Musa this year and it is supposed to be hardy in Zone 6b. Can it make it with lots of mulch? What do you all think?
Also, I have a Musa Basjoo that is about 2' tall, should I dig it up or just mulch it really well?
Aunt B- What do you do with the Ensete for the winter. I have seed to try for those but was concerned about the winter.
Dylan, my first basjoo was very small. It did not make it through the winter, even with mulch. I might suggest digging it, replanting it in the spring in deeply worked rich soil, and then overwintering it outside next year. :)
A trick I used this year that someone in here shared. I guess Hawaiians use ash from fire wood to fertilize their bananas. They'll scoop a bunch of ashes into the bottom of the hole they dig, then they'll plant the banana on top of it. This year I made a slurry out of fire wood ash and water and watered my banana shoots with it. They seemed to love it.
-Joe
I have heard about ashes in the garden. We have a wood stove this year I might give that a try.
I might too now that you guys mention it. Thanks for the tip. One of my basjoo didn't get very large this year at all (while others took to the sky). So I'm probably going to dig it up to be safe, replant it in a better location next year.
Sounds good, I will probably plant mine elsewhere next year also.
I went ahead and ordered a second portable Farmhouse GH tonight too; I can connect it to the one I already have for a total size of 19' x 9' and 8' tall. So that should give me plenty of room to store all the nanner's I need to dig up, the EE tops, etc - stuff I'd like to keep out of the garage if possible, but not loose to the cold. That extra space should allow me to use a full size oil radiator and fan now too. Just gotta figure out how I'm going to keep it from getting too warm on sunny days in the winter. We have gotten into the 70's on some days in January these last few winters - just weird, and then it goes right back to the norm. Guess I'll have to remember to vent the GH each morning by unzipping a window.
I used a oil filled radiator heater last year in a 6'x8' Harbor Freight GH and it raised my electric bill $100 a month. NOT going to use that again. It didn't really keep the GH warm either, about 20* over the outside temps. In MO in January that is not good enough. That is with all the cracks caulked and sealed well.
Has anyone tried the foil lined bubble wrap stuff on the inside of the GH? I have a lot that I got from work, wonder how well it helps insulate.
I imagine with your winter that would be an issue, but since we're a good bit warmer I think I'll be alright. Certainly less expensive than the tiny electric heater I used. I think last year the lowest we got to was in the high teens, and that was a single night. Average real cold snap is high 20's. So as long as I can keep it above freezing, which should be fairly easy, I think I'll be OK. Most of what I'm putting in their will survive anything but a freeze.
I'm almost hoping I won't have to heat my garage at all this year. With the extreme insulation I've done and the halides running, I'm praying that's enough to keep the garage as a nice 60-70 F all winter.
Your heating costs should be managable then. It is hard to keep it heated when it stays in the low teens and single digits. I could deal with the cost if it actually kept it warmer in there.
Wow! I went to DG to see if I could find information on bringing in my tropicals (first year I've done tropicals in the ground) and an hour later I'm still here! Last year I had masa basjoo which was mulched about a foot, and it didn't make it here in zone 6a-5b. This year I ordered a bunch of new ones plus several different elephant ears from a place in Florida, and they arrived six weeks later, in mid-late June, in one inch pots. What a ripoff! So, they didn't get very big since they were slow starting off.
I think I'll keep one of the musa basjoos in the ground using the chicken wire cage and lots more mulch. I also had a thought about building a straw bale structure around and over them. They're supposed to be hardy to zone 5, darn it!
I've never had EE's before, so I may try both methods - dormant roots in peat moss in the basement, or in pots in the house. We have a heated sunroom, so I may have some success- worth trying, I think.
Good luck. A solid mulch is key for you folks in colder climates. Even here I dig some of my stuff up to keep it safe - at least until I have a backup (I'm overly cautious still at this point, LOL).
Somewhere we were discussing my sik. Darjeeling Giant Musa and it was said to be hardy to Zone 9. I found a link that says Zone 7 at least, I have read that elsewhere also. It's supposedly a "new" Musa.
dylancgc, this page may be useful if you haven't seen it. http://www.bananas.org/wiki/Musa_Sikkimensis_(red_tiger%2Cmanipur_etc)
Edit: Do a search for "Darjeeling Giant" once you get to that page. Because someone used a ")" in the page url it won't link right here.
This message was edited Sep 22, 2008 4:16 PM