RE: "Maybe a cure for mites!!!"

Diane and AuntB, I an going to try to answer your questions to the best of my abilities.

First Diane,

I have not spayed my plants with the Anti-Stress 2000 yet. I will be doing that when I bring them in for the winter, which will still be a couple of weeks, unless an unexpected cold spell arrives. So to answer your question about how I now if that the Broad Mites are indeed dead, well I have to do just like you have been doing, observing the plants new growth. And that is with me using the horticultural oils. And like you said, right now they are not growing fast because they are getting ready to go dormant.

Spider Mites are only a problem for me in the house during the winter. And in my opinion SO MUCH easier to deal with than Broad Mites.

Personally, since you have already sprayed with a 30:1 solution twice within 10 days; I would not spray them again for at least 30 - 45 days. By that time arrives you will have already placed them in their winter home.

Ok, AuntB,

Yes, the product does not say that it will kill the mites that have already infested the plant, it is by the empirical evidence provided by Jim's use of the product on mites that we have come to the conclusion that it does kill the mites that are already on the plant. It works very much, if not exactly the way that the hort oils do by smothering the mite or other insects.

In the following link you can read were the product was used in a vineyard setting and they did not have the hopper or mite problem they normally would have on the treated plants. But, please do not order from this site, they are much higher than the developing company in Fresno, CA. For example a gallon of concentrate at the site with the MSDS, the price is $49.99 plus a $2.00 charge for less than a full case, then you still have to add S&H. At the Fresno CA site the same product is $39.95 per gallon of concentrate.

Here is the link to the site in Houston TX, that has the vineyard information. This is the site that is higher on the price.

http://www.antistress.com/examples/Heat2.html

This is the link to the company that originally developed the product and is much cheaper. The mailing address is as follows:

Polymer Ag., Inc.
PO Box 9665
Fresno, CA 93793

http://www.polymerag.com/

I have been following this thread with a lot of interest...

David....where is Crumpler, WV....I am from the Beckley area and am not familiar with Crumpler. Jo

Hi Jo, Good to hear from a fellow West Virginian on the forums.

I am very familar with the Beckley area. I have a brother who used to live in Pax, then Mount Hope and currently lives in Oak Hill.

By the way the crow flies I am about 26 miles from Beckley. Other wise, it is about a 70 mile drive from where I live. Crumpler is in McDowell County, the closest town to me is Northfork.

Thanks David. I'm really stuck on accepting that it is an "organic" substitute for chemicals. Which I'm still not convinced it is. Acrylonitrile is a toxic liquid which is what it is made from.... My understanding now is that it is basically a protective man made plastic coating we are spraying... right, acrylic is plastic. Thanks for the links, again, too. I got mine from polymerag and did notice the price on the antistress website. (YIKES)
By the way, my moderately hail ridden hibs are still bothered with white flies (3-4wks now?) and I did get out the systemic Sunday nite and I'm removing all damaged leaves. When I sprayed, the flies appeared minimal and the leaves already had hail damage before I sprayed the AS. I was sure to coat them all back and front, dripping smelly milky looking AS liquid. Within a couple days the flies were back and pretty heavy, I pitched worm castings on top of every pot in effort to stay organic. It seemed there was almost immediate difference... or so I thought. Then a couple days later, back with avengence again. (maybe eggs hatched? but it was sprayed with AS?) That's when I threw my hands up and pulled out the chemicals.

Thanks, David...Looks like if they ever build that Coalfields Parkway you will be very close to my home....Sophia!! I have never been down towards Welch...but would like to. Maybe the next trip home I will. Jo

Is the AS supposed to protect against white flies? I thought it was just aphids and mites. Are white flies sucking pests? I thought the damage from white flies was to the roots of the plants from the larvae... Yes or no?

I apologize if the answer to this question has already been posted, but what rate of dilution is used for the AS2000?

Or put another way: how much spray does one quart of concentrate make?

The dilution rate I was given by the manufacturer of Antistress was to start with 30:1 which equates out to about 1/2 cup to a gallon of water. I use a one gallon sprayer so I just measure it out that way. The gentleman also told me you can make it stronger anywhere from 20:1 to 100:1 depending on what you want to accomplish. I sprayed the 30:1 twice - 4 days apart to try and treat a broad mite infestation...I think I read on the site spraying them twice was a good idea for frost protection too.

Just wondering if anyone is having any success treating mites with the wilt pfufs.

My biggest concern is that the month of rain might be what got rid of the mites and not the product that Jim used. I've tried it (Anti Stress) on my brugs and will say that one that was totally healthy now has broad mites. I found them last night. Maybe the broad mites are small enough that they can penetrate the film that the spray gives.

Vicki has always said that the best defence against mites of any kind is water. Spray daily. It's just too much work for me, but it may come down to that.

Ted, I sprayed mine over red spider mites and it did NOT kill them. I had to treat the plant then I sprayed it with the Wilt Pruf again... there gone now lol!
Caren

I think the products do not KILL them, They CONTROL them. It is to provide a barrier to keep them from attacking. If they are already there I guess they would be sealed in. I suppose that might eventually do them in if they can't move around to get to fresh leaf juices or attack new leaves...

I got spider mites after spraying Cloud Cover, (Another polymer) but I intend to spray this winter to see if it gives the plants I leave outside a little protection against freak frosts like we had here last year. The local weather/garden guru on TV recommended it for that. I figure it can't hurt. I don't have room in the greenhouse for everything, so ..... we'll see what happens.

I have read this from top to bottom & have ordered it, I live in CA. & we can not get Miticides into this state other than by ordering through an "outsider" So I think I'll try this this winter in my GH.
It is tough to try to get stuff that's not legal for CA. here. I have been trying to get a Blueflame heater for my GH, CA. is the only state that doesn't allow it to be shipped here! CA doesn't want un-vented heaters in dwelling places, this is NOT a dwelling, so they should make allowances! Geeze, I love living in CA. but sometimes...grrr!

Yes, California goes overboard protecting us from ourselves.. like a parent protecing a child.. drove me crazy when I lived there... most of us can make intelligent decisions for ourselves.. thank you very much.. as for those who can't make intelligent decisions.. well, evolution weeds out the weak and those unable to adapt... hint, hint! LOL Like the bulbs I plant.. I learn what will survive here and what will not. Then I plant more that will. Can't wait till spring.. not looking forward to the planting but the auger I bought last year is fantastic for digging the holes using my drill.. makes it really quick and easy. ... except when I hit a rock or have it going the wrong direction.. I really can feel stupid sometimes.

Haven't tried my anti stress 2000.. going to spray everything tomorrow..


Tammie

This message was edited Oct 6, 2007 6:28 PM

Krnysgirl - Pardon my intrusion, as I rarely come to this forum except to get a picture fix now and again, but I was wondering if you have any comments on your broad mite infestation after spraying. I'm interested in using it for plants other than Brugs, and wanted your feedback about actually treating mites with it, if there's been time for you to tell any difference. Thanks so much!

Hi, Raingazer...

Well, the jury is still kinda out on this. My Broadmite infestation has spread now to about 1/3 of my 100+ brugs.. GRRRR! The problem is that I really can't TELL if it's working until new leaves grow in and I see if they are normal and things are growing very, very, slowly right now. I did see one of the infested plants sprout 2 leaves that do look fine..but another one grew a leaf that also looks "crispy". The others just have not grown at all. I got so worried about the infestation spreading that last weekend I sprayed all my better brugs with Avid - so those are now out of the "test". I left a few remaining ones to see how they do.

In summary, I'm not convinced it works yet, but I'm not convinced it doesn't. I will have to see if it works as a preventative by spraying early next year and seeing if I can prevent the attack in the first place.

Please Diane do keep us informed. I haven't bought any yet and I am just waiting to see how everyone elses plants are doing with it. I have gotten so much stuff in the last few years and finding out it really doesn't help. I know everyone has done the same.

I was wondering the same as you if you wait until spring and spray them good then maybe it would help better to prevent from getting some of these bugs.

I think all of us in the northern climates will have to wait for next year for a full, fair test. Keeping in mind, the product doesn't claim to kill an infestation, just to "confound and repel". I've had broadmite before and hope to never have it again... Insecticides didn't stop them, I ended up pitching plants, dirt and all in a garbage bag... I kept it isolated from the other brugs and babied it with sprays and meds all summer, only to lose the battle. I'll take spider mite over broadmite, anyday.

AuntB,

You are correct that for those of us in the northern zones will have to wait until next year to fully evaluate these products for protection from mites. I might be able to give a report on how effective this product is before next summer. As a small time eBay seller, I sell most of my plants from very late fall thru spring. And sometimes during the winter I have broad mites infect my plants for sell and I have to spay with oils and other organic products to get rid of the mites. So if this happens this winter I will be able to give a limited report.

And I agree with you 100% AuntB, "I'll take spider mite over broadmite, anyday."

I had to check in and see how the trials were going. I used it a little over 3 months now. I had a massive spidermite problem. I used it 20:1 sprayed once and then again 1 week later. I did not know what a broad mite looked like except from the internet. I did as it seems have a small problem. I took the tips and put them under the microscope and saw no mites. Interval should be every 30 days. I did take my trial out 2 1/2 months. It was a mistake to wait until I saw a mite problem. I am back in the groove again. Everything is healthy. The only thing I found that did not like it was cactus.

Now it is still 90 degrees here. I no longer have a mite problem. I was for 3 months pulling off 2 walmart plastic bags full of leaves everyday. I sprayed several hundred dollars of pesticides,miticides, soaps, neem oil, organocide etc... They were becoming resistant. Now as far as rain and water I pump 3,600 gallon a day in the peak of the summer for 2 acres. I do believe the cure is in polymer film for mites if the broad mites can squeeze through the pores then the addition of a additive such as pepper oil or maybe some refined diatomacious earth would stop it. I have solved my mite problem .


Jim

alright jpotts ! looks like you have found a regiment that works if in the future my seaweed treatment should begin to fail I have a backup I will try this method congrats.

oh, that is sooo good to hear Jim. I think we all need to keep posting our experiences here. I have renewed hope that this will work after all ...at least for spider mites. :-)

I used Cedarcide http://www.cedarcide.com/ yesterday (just found about it this past Monday on another DG forum)
I have battled mites and fleas so much that I thought about burning my plants and getting an indoor lawn for my dogs.
Seriously, I had to use an ever increasingly vicious arsenal of chemicals with results that are at best negligible.
Having gone thru this thread twice I keep reading that wormcastings and seeweed are keeping mites away, or kill them?
How could they kill? Or could it be that they make the plant so much stronger that harmful insects are warded off?
As in someone who eats healthy foods is less likely to get the flu than someone dining on chemical ladden pre packaged junk?? Chemical fertilizer being equal to IE sodas?
I would like feedback on this , anyone feeding only "natural"? Or are they not here as they do not have this type problem?

Tednugent how is seaweed a 'treatment' or is it allowing the plants to be healthy enough to fight off/ repel mites?

I have used in rotation in the last 3 years: Bayer systemic, Avid, Marathon, soapy ammonia water, DE and Garlic Barrier

Jim, thanks for posting your findings. You waited to spray until you saw the mite problem? Or you sprayed and then saw the mite problem and sprayed some more? Cupped leaves with crinkly scrunched up leaf edges are a definate warning to broadmite, I rely on symtoms/behavior as a clue to what's bugging my brugs, sometimes it's too late to nip anything in the bud, but I'm learning what to look for. I'm still of the belief that being "organic" makes for a healthier plant. Chemicals and man-made fertilizers, to me are like steroids. Yes, they do cause excelerated growth and more blooms, but that has to be tiring and stressful to the plant. I just can't seem to be on one side or the other; but straddling the fence trying to get the best of both worlds, I guess. Broad Mite symtoms would cause me panic and haul out chemicals, I give myself one season to rid the b.mites and plants would NOT go in my basement to winter over if there is a remote chance they were still infected... Spider mites in the house..., different story, I would begrudingly strip all leaves, hose off the remaining growth, put an additional top dress of worm castings, bring inside, spray with H2O2 2 times a week, and watch closely. I hope to stay "more organic" next season, but still use the copolymer plastic coating-AS2000, as I don't believe it is "natural" enough product to claim I'm growing intirely organic... acrylic is a man-made fiber produced from acrylonitrile- a toxic liquid used in making resins, rubber and thermoplastics. I will possibly use the 20/1 ratio, instead of 30/1 and spray as Jim did every 30 days after initial 2 sprayings 1 week apart.. The AS2000 would not protect the new growth within the 30 day period of not spraying, though.

I am not really sure how it works but I listen to a organic gardening show that runs out of san antonio and the guy who hosts the show swears it keeps mites away (spider mites) but I havent had any attacks from broad mites either since I went organic. he said it works by making the plant tissue too tough for the mites to easily suck the juices from the plant. all I know is the last two years my place was a mite heaven they ate my brugs,tomatoes,marigolds etc etc etcthis year starting in early spring I went totally organic stopped using any chemical fertilizers or sprays and presto healthy plants with no mites. My roses are almost totaly without black spot it cost about the same I'm staying organic and not looking back.

Okay, Ted. I'm climbing down OFF the fence...next spring. :)

Enough people sharing can solve the mite problem. If we all assume the big chemical companies have us at heart and continue to buy and spray more we will develope a super mite. Mechanical barriers are more or less permanent. They could evolve I guess but I would be long gone. Anyway I was a toxic waste site with mites and now have not sprayed a pesticide in 3-4 months. The birds,frogs,dragon flies etc have all come back. I am all for anything non toxic that works. I have sprayed flour and buttermilk and it works also. Just not as effective as polymers. More than one solution is good to have.


Jim

I don't do brugs but I've been lurking around on this thread since I've had some bad mite problems, but I had to jump in and ask--Jim? Flour and buttermilk? Huh? Sounds like breakfast, not gardening?

I'm confused... Does this help mite problems?

I have seen a dramatic return of wildlife also especially toads and frogs as soon as they returned my pill bug and earwig problem dissapeared.

What does pill bug and earwig damage look like. I have some plants that have some wierd damage to the leaves and I don't know what it is caused by... Just wondering

Flour and butter milk old time recipe for mites. I have tried them all. I have a orchard sprayer so I use 5 lbs. flour and 1 quart butter milk to 25 gallons of water. It does work. So does several termicides. (way off label) One thing that has to be considered using a polymer or any item to kill mites is the degree of infestation. There are millions of eggs laying around everywhere. One or two coats is not going to cure it. The mites if enough is sprayed will find another source of food. Mine showed up on some Canna's that had been sprayed marginally. Prevention is the key keep the spray up and respray anytime you see some.By the time you see a problem it is about to get real bad fast. I have 100+ brungs a full time job and the perfect growing habitat for them 11 months out of the year.

There is no silver bullet to stop them. I had one person say she sprayed it and she still had mites so it must not work and was not going to try it again. Imagine: I have a case of ortho systemic which they have become immune to. Think about it if you were a mite and kept being sprayed with a plastic film and your food source was sprayed would you keep going to the same plant.At some point you would not be able to penetrate the cell walls to suck the juices.

Thanks for explaining, Jim. I think I'll give it a try on my mite-infested plants--much safer around kids and pets than the other stuff I tried!

My plants all look good the deep south is finally coming to its prime season whew. Fall, it has been a long hot summer. Polymers yeah I could not live without them. One thing it did not protect or stop was on some Plumerias sprayed 2x in a week from a MG sale all developed rust. I have never had it before. So I guess you might say it is a toss up who will win in the 1st round. I did make me think about my quarantining of plants. What is a proper treatment for them and to what length and extent. I does appear that many of use are bringing in problems from elsewhere and they do not appear until there is a visual problem.

I see so many pictures of new growers with the same mite problems. Many will give other reasons other than mites. I guess I am a miteaphobe. LOL I live in mite heaven, they just sleep for a month and figure new ways to attack here. Bringing plants inside should give an excellent opportunity to see direct results from polymers use. Started in the spring and continued should give visual results as to how well it works. I have 3 plants thrown into a lousy location that were sprayed multiple times and never had a mite problem these are about 3 1/2 months old. They caught my eye a month or so back because they were thriving and growing like weeds. They are now 4 feet tall and flowering. All I can do is make a generalized observation. Nothing but Johnson grass every grew there before. Other brugs that are older and were hit badly by mites early in the year are 1/2 the size 10 feet away in a better sun/shade location and are 2x as old. So here we go " Plants bitten by mites never fully recover from the toxins injected into them" I might have to also put "that growing year" since overwintering may provide different results on plant recovery time.

So I am and will be in a prevention mode from now on. A cheap product, how did that commercial go "pay me now or pay me later" I would like to go an entire year without mites and see how much the growth difference will be. It may never happen but is a good goal.


Jim

Thanks, David, for this thread, and for everyone's input. Very interesting.
The awful thing about broad mites is they love a wide variety of plants...they infest pole beans and peppers as well as many ornamentals, including African violet, ageratum, azalea, begonia, chrysanthemums, cyclamen, dahlia, gerbera, gloxinia, ivy, jasmine, impatiens, lantana, marigold, peperomia, pittosporum, snapdragon, verbena, and zinnia . This makes it particularly "dangerous" for the gardener carting in new annuals every year. It can be hard to tell where they came from. I am wondering if all of the above-mentioned plants would need to be treated in order to stop potential infestation.
It will be interesting to see if these products can help to prevent an outbreak.
I used to think spider mites were bad, grrrr, until I met Mr. Broadmite.

I'll be bring most, (hopefully all) my plants in this weekend. I do plan on using the AS after everything is trimmed and letting it dry before they go inside... I'm keeping most stuff growing so, I'll be watching for mites (spider only, I hope), gnats, fungus's, rust, all the potential marauders that we usually deal with. Since I didn't have time left in the growing season for a fair conclusion, I hope to use AS, seaweed/molasses, superthrive and worm castings, as my regime next year....and good old H2O. We'll see how it goes. Jim, I'm not happy with your idea that a plant, once bitten by mites never fully recovers (you know what I mean).... but it is something to consider as we continue testing. Good point, Hellobebe about spraying EVERYTHING we bring into our yards/gardens, sometimes I buy from the neglected plant section as they are at least 1/2 price, but I always inspect for any signs of disease/infests, but you can't always see everything, or the mite/disease affected part has been trimmed off....... We're going to have to re-read this whole thread next spring to refresh ourselves with everyone's valuable input. I look forward to our continuing experiment and everyone's experiences and input -Thx everyone!-B

Got mine last Sat. just too darned busy to use it quite yet.
Bj

I sprayed everything I put in the greenhouse today... and now after the fact I am wondering if there are plants that it should not be used on? I guess I will find out if I did something wrong. Also.. after the fact...Did anyone who sprayed this not use a mask? I did not and then wondered if I was supposed to. I also got it all over my hands and arms, but I took a shower not too long after. I guess I won't have mites...! LOL

I wanted to updated my use of the Anti Stress 2000. First, last year I had spider mites and white flies that no matter what insecticide I used would not go away. They white flies were the worst and I started treating when they first appeared. I have my plants in an indoor atrium for the winter.. temp about 70 and humidity 20 to 35% at most. This year, the spider mites got going really well before I saw them.. sort of crowded in there.. sprayed with the AS 2000.. wet everything down. That knocked them back and there were a few whiteflies at the time. Sprayed again about a week later because I found a few more spider mites... have sprayed just spots occasionally where I see some spider mites.. no white flies to be seen.. they never took hold really well like last year since I sprayed the AS 2000. It has been soooo much easier keeping things in check this year! I just mixed 1 ,1/2 gallon batch of the AS 20:1 strength and am still using that! Yes, it is a small atrium with plumerias, brugs, small palms and some ferns crowded in. The mites did damage the tips of some of my plumerias before I noticed them but now they are starting to grow multiple tips! The AS 2000 did burn the leaves of my EE's.. just sprayed them anyway since the spider mites loved them.. it worked.

Tammie

Thanks for reporting back on your results. I have some and will be using it this summer when, not if, the mites return. Good to know it works.

Karen