For Arlan: Blue Picotee X Mini-Bar Rose - F2

I did two batches of the F2. The first batch was planted when the first seeds from the F1 matured back in December of 06. There were some really ugly color mixtures and the plants on a whole were more like the BP.

This picture shows one of the ugly color mixtures. There was no barring or picotee.

This message was edited Sep 11, 2007 11:43 AM

The leaf shape has always been consistently more BP than MBR. The interesting thing is that the plants with the varigation were always more compact than than the solids. That only held true for the first batch of seeds I planted.

This message was edited Sep 11, 2007 11:44 AM

Here is a picture of a varigated bud. The picture on the right is the same bud but a few weeks later.

Here is another flower. Leaves solid.

This was an odd one .. it never fully opened but was definitely the MB color.

Now here comes the interesting part. I planted a second batch in late spring which was kept outside. The flower colors were either BP blue or darker versions of the MB pink, not one to my knowledge produced the ugly mixture of both, but some had hints of the other color. The plants never produced another deep rich navy like in the F1. Sorry to say I don't have many pictures of this grow out.

Here is a picture of a leaf and bud.

Here are some other leaves.

This second batch of the F2's were more stable than the first. I know light and temperature can affect color and growth habit, but I'm also wondering if age of the seed can also have an affect on the characteristics of a plant. The first batch was grown in a greenhouse with filtered light and cool temperatures. The second batch was grown out in full blazing hot sun. There was a 3 month lag between plantings. The first batch was planted as the seed became available.

X

When you say F2 you mean that you crossed F1 x F1 either by self-pollination or manually, Xeramtheum? By the way, I find your "ugly" ones quite intriguing, beauty is, of course, always in the eye of the beholder...

Martin

Wow! I almost missed this! Thanks so much for taking the time to share your experiences.

Your first picture here, http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=3962472 , did it happen to produce seeds? It may be worth a growout in normal season conditions as it looks to have variegated leaves and the makings of a somwhat star shaped flower. The pollen here looks to be old...but one can hope...!

The first sentence could indicate that the gene for the tiny or princess characteristic could be linked to the variegated gene....but the second brings us back to the reality that the segregation of traits is truly random, and sometimes could be misleading in small numbers. Does this mean that the plant described above was also compact?

From this cross I would expect to see quite normal looking leaves as both parents are built upon a pretty basic and normal pallette with few modifier genes. The recessive star gene, which produces the Kikyou type flower, also has a very characteristic leaf shape which should be identifiable when expressed.

The blue flower shown here, http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=3962595 , shows the incomplete "nail" margin, so common in the MBR, and the colored throat which is typical of a blue star shaped Kikyou or as you call it, Picotee. The bottom flower clearly has the white throat from the tube white gene of the MBR. The more complete white margin could be reinforced by interaction of the different Margin genes from each parent. This flower looks a bit purple....which can be carried in the MBR, hidden behind and slightly modifying the magenta of the MBR. I don't know what the blue parent looked like, but it could also be the source of the purplish color, as many often do look purplish blue.

From my perspective, any plant that shows the small stature of the MBR is of interest, even if the flower is circular and not star shaped. The star characteristic could still show up in subsequent generations, though in decreasing odds each generation. New colors in the MBR type plants are also always welcome!

Thank you for the interesing presentation!

Arlan

The BP parent could be any of the three in the picture. The flowers of the BP had little or no pollen and I was crossing both ways in desperation to save the deformed genes. If I remember correctly only the BP crosses took .. the MB never made crossed seeds probably because the pollen was so sparse. Unfortunatly I didn't keep track to differentiate where the seeds came from I'd like to add that those flowers came from the same plant!

X

This message was edited Sep 12, 2007 12:42 AM

Martin - "F" stands for filial F1 is the first generation and F2 is the growout from the seeds produced from the F1 plant...

TTY,...

Ron

Thanks, X. Now I remember that plant and experience!

Hi Martin! I completely skipped over your question in my haste. My appologies. Thank goodness for Ron! - Arlan

This message was edited Sep 12, 2007 7:09 AM