MoBot does have the Shaw Nature Reserve in Gray Summit, MO near Pacific. I use to take the kids there alot and we'd spend the day hiking--walking the trails. We'd even go in the dead of winter with snow on the ground. Some of the trails are pretty rugged though. It's also a good place for bird watching and viewing native plants in a natural landscape. Some trails lead to the Meramec River where we would wade in the summertime when the water was very shallow.
http://www.shawnature.org/
One of my best times was at Pere Marquette State Park's annual fall owl outing held after dark. We frequently visit this area just north of the Illinois and Mississippi Rivers confluence on the IL Rr to get away from the city. After a short lecture & film about owls, our group was escorted by the park guide deep into the woods after a rugged hike up the bluff. Complete silence and darkness were required so the owls weren't frightened away. My youngest daughter and I went a few years ago and it was an unforgettable experience. The guide's owl calls had owls swooping down overhead and answering back. Afterwards, we sat around a campfire and toasted marshmallows and drank punch. It was a great time to chat about the owls after the long period of silence. I've tried the owl call myself (not here in town, of course) & was so excited when a couple of owls answered me.
http://www.greatriverroad.com/Pere/owls.htm
Stepping stones
Good idea psychwd2, I'm calling "Rent-A-Husband" on Monday morning. I never thought of calling them. They'd probably be cheaper than a landscaper anyway. You're also right about the stepping stones needing to be level. Just learned that first hand when I cracked one in half after trying to brush everything our from underneath where I would be setting it then stood on it to test it out- crack. They're going to have to be recessed in a sand/sawdust mix.
Yes fly_girl! And the urn was on clearance too which made me even happier. I was rather surprised he bought it. A few years ago the Shedd Aquarium had a really awesome frog exhibit. We went to the exhibit then went to a small herp museum somewhere downtown. I forgot the name of it but it was rather impressive.
"it's the working in the dark in a parka in the freezing cold blizzard conditions and the working till midnight while trying to keep the mosquitoes from carrying you away, to digging trenches in 150 degree weather that I'm talking about. That's biting off more than you can chew, when you have to work 48 hours in a day to get done all that you've bought." Must you be the voice of reason reminding me of these indiscretions ;) So I miscalculated a little bit here and there. What's a few miscalculations amongst friends anyway! Who would have thought we would have had a cold snap such as the one we had the end of October when the ground froze solid like it did. We broke quite a few record lows last year. We don't normally get that kind of weather until well after Thanksgiving. And I forgot about those trenches, those were a lot more work than what I thought they would be. Sort of renews my respect for landscapers and their fees when I have to do that kind of work. The temps were pretty bad. Not 150 but well into the 80's and 90's. The mosquitoes suck. Don't remind me about those things. Screwing up has a plus side... my respect for the trades people out there who do this kind of work rises 200% every time I get a first hand taste of what is really involved in the process.
I know lots of places like what you want to see but... we won't be able to get your daughter's wheel chair through them so it would be just you and me babe with none of our kids. I think you'd really like some of those places and there are two such sites within about a half hour of my house. If we go a few hours up into WI, there are quite a few more and there is an area over in Indiana that is spectacular-
http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/publications/scranes.htm
The best of all of Illinois in my opinion would be Cache-
http://www.nature.org/wherewework/northamerica/states/illinois/preserves/art1124.html
http://dnr.state.il.us/lands/landmgt/parks/R5/CACHERVR.HTM
We'd need a whole long weekend to do that area but I can guarantee you'd come home a happy camper if we went there. Most native plant sales are going to be in the spring. I do prefer the natural areas but it's nice to hit a few traditional gardens for landscaping ideas. The Shaw Nature Reserve sounds nice but I've heard about the Owl walks and those are supposed to be great. I would definitely be interested in an Owl walk.
greenbrain, I can't see your photos right now. Configuration issues with my new computer and some of the software. I'm going to get to MoBot sooner or later. That, the New York Botanical Garden, and the Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Garden are on my list of botanical gardens that I'd really like to visit.
How funny that you guys like toads, over here we're trying to stop the march of the cane toads, which eat all the smaller native frogs. I have many frogs and lizards in the garden and they live in the bromeliads, (frogs), Trees, and the river rocks that we've placed in our walkways. I have stepping stones made from slices of a tree trunk, but don't want to turn them over for fear of spiders and scorpions and bitey things!
I don't know how keen I'd be to garden with a broken arm though! You must be much sicker than me!
Sue
Equilibrium,
Did you ever get any of the cement stuff made you were looking at a couple of years ago? When I was in that forum I saw you were chomping at the bit to get some rocks "made" and other cement projects.
Pat
Yup, that's me, your voice of reason. Don't buy 250 plants from 1 place and turn around and buy even more from another place and another place and yet another place. You set yourself up for failure. Look at the number of plants you've lost because you can't possibly take care of that many bare root plants that need to go into the ground. You sent me some that had sat for too long and died, remember? I thought I was the mad woman, running around, digging holes, and trying to make our yard into a haven in not much time. But I've got a little itty bitty yard compared to the property that you own. That's all I'm trying to say. Buy the plants in quantities that are reasonable and you know you can get them planted. Don't take on 50 million projects at once....and yes, that's an exaggeration, but surely not by much..........and I still love ya girl.....;-D
We definitely don't like cane toads over here weed_woman. They're an introduced species and one of the worst of the worst mistakes we Americans made was allowing them to get such a foothold in our environment once we learned how destructive they were. We're doing what we can to stop this invasive species over here in the US too but you Aussies are doing a better job than us currently.
“Did you ever get any of the cement stuff made you were looking at a couple of years ago?” Yes psychw2! I made a hundred small mock rocks a few years ago and used them as edging material. They were very light weight and so easy to work with. What a pleasant surprise. And, I also finished off two birdbaths made out of tufa this year. I learned a lot and will tackle the bird baths again because I made a lot of mistakes. Next project is going to be tufa troughs but that will be for next year. One thing though, getting your hands on concrete/mortar dyes can be hard. You may have to mail order those or else you’ll get stuck with picking from three stock colors at the big box stores.
Oh not fair voice of reason ;) That portion of the original order was sent to me at least 4 weeks if not 6 weeks AFTER it was supposed to have been sent and I had been intentionally staggering delivery dates of orders to avoid piling up. Even then he had missed several plants and had to send yet another box to me. He had problems at his nursery and couldn't include some plants in his first or second shipment to me which resulted in the third box for the same order. Normally when you place an order you get it all at once, at least this guy has always sent me an entire order but leave it to this year to be the first time he sent me partials. Sometimes our best isn't enough when we're dependent on a nursery to ship on requested dates. That's the kind of crap that throws me and lots of people off. But, I got it all in the ground ;)
Barring incredibly responsible people not sending orders when they're supposed to or not at all because of circumstances beyond their control, barring hard freezes months before they have occurred in subsequent years, barring two 100 year (annual chance of 1%) and one 500 year flood (annual chance of 0.2%- remember that flood from the 10 o'clock news with my neighborhood sharing the spotlight with other communities and people were using row boats to get to their front doors?), barring unseasonably warm temperatures like in the 60's for two weeks in January and then in the 70's in February that break not only all time highs but also break dormancy of bareroots prematurely when the ground is still frozen, and barring just about every other freak of nature occurrence that has been tossed at gardeners of the Midwest lately; biggest plant losses were not as a result of not being able to get plants in the ground but to the factors listed below and probably in about just this order:
1) deer... Bambis ate the plants in the ground
2) winter droughts... inadequate snow cover to properly insulate previous plantings from sub zero stretches of temps that are normal for this area
3) flooding... we've had a 500 year flood and two 100 year floods all in the past few years where hundreds and hundreds of people lost their homes because of our proximity to the Des Plaines River basin and plants literally rotted in the ground after weeks of sitting in water after having been recently planted or people simply couldn't plant until the waters went back far enough to get in to work.
4) summer droughts... we had the worst drought in over a hundred years just a few years ago followed by yet another record breaking drought last year and the Feds had to come in and bail out our farmers and this year we went with little or no rain for over 10 weeks straight. Water is hard to get your hands on when everyone is ordering tankers to save their plants
5) chipmunks and squirrels uprooting plants that aren't found right away and planted back in the ground
6) rabbits... Thumpers can be real tough on plants
7) freezing ice storms... broke hundreds of branches, ripped limbs from trees from the weight, and perfectly timed its arrival to coincide with just about everything that was ready to break bud
Most people doing restoration work in this area have been held up getting plants ordered in the ground but they've been getting them in. What is causing all the casualties would be the unexpected curve balls folk are forced to juggle. Now factor in the learning curves. Lends new meaning to the term "anticipate the unexpected". In an ideal world, no one would have to order bulk 5-6 months before it's needed and local garden centers would carry more than popular and easy to propagate plants.
One thing I figured out is to start digging as many holes as possible for everything that is ordered even before the plants come in. That way if there is unexpected freeze/thaw cycling, at least you have holes ready. The other is to guesstimate the tree tubes, soil, amendments, and mulch needed and have all that you think you are going to need for the season delivered before everybody and their brother is out and about wiping out the shelves when the weather really warms up and the soil can be worked.
Even trying to get ahead can backfire. I'm currently stuck with about 25 holes of assorted sizes out there right now and I've got about 25 bags of soil and 25 bags of mulch stacked up nice and neat all because of crop failures so plants I ordered didn't come in and ended up on back order to next spring.
Incredibly, I look forward to fall. That’s when all the catalogs start coming in so I can start figuring out what I want to put in the ground next year. Better sit down Mrs R… I already ordered 15 plants for delivery next April and am working on a fruit tree order. I’m convinced some gardeners are gluttons for punishment but you have to admit the fruits of our labor look really great when everything starts pulling together over the years. I think that’s why I keep going at it with gusto. I have more successes than failures these days which makes it all worthwhile.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhh Mrs. Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, I single armed placed 150 stepping stones where I want them to be set. Ten were set aside to replace any that broke. I arranged them then re-arranged them then re-arranged them again. One after the next I carried them from the upper driveway and walked each one to its resting spot. I am thrilled to death. They look nicer than I expected. I’m ready to call to done git me some of dem there rental husbands tomorrow. Yee hah!
sigh..........................
Oh must you be my conscience now ;) Think I'll go search up some American Ginseng rhizomes. I've been looking for more of those for a while and have been coming up empty handed.
I guess the Rent-A-Husband is a no go. They only do basic repairs and routine maintenance. It was suggested I contact the Rent-A-Wife location and that maybe they would set stepping stones. I don't want a wife (well, there are days I do when laundry piles up), I want a husband.. no I want two husbands.
Back to searching for husbands for hire.
Equilibrium,
You don't have a place you can hire "day labor"? Ok.... a posting at the local college might get you some strong young people. My son has gotten all kinds of odd jobs that way when he was away to college. When I went back and got my Masters, I needed some labor and I put a request in at the college I was attending. I got some great young men that I hired on a couple of occasions.
WOW ... your area was certainly hit with it's share of hard times! Good idea to get all those supplies bought up in ADVANCE! Having all those holes dug, ready and sitting empty must have been a disappointment.
Pat
No day labor I can find. My husband said that the unions have halls that people go to waiting to get called to go to work but I don't know how one goes about hiring those people... do you stand outside and try to intercept them as they are going in with a sign around your neck begging for a rental husband or two for a few days? I'll go drive over to the local college and post a request if other calls being made don't pan out.
My husband is calling some landscapers today and I've got a call out to a place called "Hubbies For Hire- no job too big or too small" and they advertise that they do basic carpentry, electrical, plumbing, and just about anything else. Let's see if they call me back. I sort of guesstimated the time to use a pick axe, dig out the area underneath, then refill with sand and figured two people could get about 10 set per hour. That's two days of work for two rental husbands.
The holes weren't so much a disappointment as they were an ankle twister waiting to happen. I ended up sticking whole packaged bags of top soil in them so people weren't stepping in them and tripping (myself included). They're hard to see believe it or not when you're not expecting a hole in the ground with nothing in it. They'll be there next year, the holes aren't going anywhere ;) Digging holes is the hardest part of the whole process. You have to pick where you want the plant to go then start digging and then you have to find a place to dump what comes out of the hole. Sticking the plant in the ground and mulching is air time. I really like pre-digging the holes even if the plants don't all come in because I can space myself better and don't get stuck digging holes on 90F+ days or in the rain much any longer.
Basically, it wasn't just my area but the whole county and the droughts affected the entire state. Lots of people lost their homes around here only to rebuild and lose them again. Many volunteers out trying to help sand bag for those families. The water went up so high it went over the sandbags. I don't think anyone is rebuilding this time. The first few times the Des Plaines River came up as it did should have been a clue that it might be best to pick another site for a home. Floods cause major structural damage to homes not to mention the loss of personal property. One subdivision of about 600 homes or so was so bad that the Feds came in and created some sort of barrier around the whole perimeter. Those houses didn't flood the last few years. They're lucky but I really have to wonder how some builder was able to get approval to start a subdivision in an area that has a history of flooding and not just at 100 year flood stages. Total cost to protect those homes was in the millions. They should have just left the entire area a wetlands.
*You're sleepy, you're getting so sleepy, so sleepy....at the count of 3 you will be asleep....1......2....3...you're asleep*
I will only buy plants that I have the time to plant. I will only buy plants that I have the time to plant. I will only buy plants that I have the time to plant. I will only buy plants that I have the time to plant. I will only buy plants that I have the time to plant. I will only buy plants that I have the time to plant.
I won't order so many plants that I'm in the snow trying to plant. I don't know what the weather will be like, so why would I buy more plants than I can get into the ground?? I won't I won't I won't I won't I won't I won't I won't I won't I won't I won't I won't I won't I won't I won't......................................................
*You will wake up and remember all that was said....snap!*
Hey, terry!! Try this on you.
I am coming to MoBot to see the gardens. I am coming to MoBot. I am coming to MoBot. I am coming to MoBot. I am coming to MoBot. I am coming to MoBot. I am coming to MoBot. I am coming to MoBot. I am coming to MoBot. I am coming to MoBot.
Then....I will make it to Powell Gardens. I will make it to Powell Gardens. I will make it to Powell Gardens.........................
*You will wake up and remember all that was said....snap!*
Oh my, this thread has it all: voices of reason, consciences, and lately hypnotists!
Mrs R-
*You're sleepy, you're getting so sleepy, so sleepy....at the count of 3 you will be asleep....1......2....3...you're asleep*
You waaaaaaaaaaant to go to MoBot
You waaaaaaaaaaant to go to MoBot
You waaaaaaaaaaant to go to MoBot
You neeeeeeeeeeeed to go to MoBot
You neeeeeeeeeeeed to go to MoBot
You neeeeeeeeeeeed to go to MoBot
You will goooooooooo to MoBot
You will goooooooooo to MoBot
You will goooooooooo to MoBot
*You will wake up and remember all that was said....snap!*
Back to thumbing through the Van Engelen Inc. fall 2007 bulb catalog. It's got my name on it. It's calling to me to order from it. It's saying.... Laaaaaaaaauren, we've got lots of bulbs for you within these pages.
I need more tulips. I think I will join you Equil.
Spring Green looks mighty fine. About a hundred would you say???
http://www.vanengelen.com/
Oh YOOHOOO LAUREN!!! Van Engelen Inc has bulbs that are indigenous to NORTHERN IL and grown locally????????? Somehow I don't think so! Practice what you preach woman!! Practice!!
Boy, did I pick the best day to visit MoBot. I didn't realize that it was "Grandparent's Day" for members only. I got the royal treatment. Even a lovely bouquet of flowers. The volunteers were so wonderful! : )
That's great greenbrain!!
Terry, we all slip sometimes. :~p
Equil, go for it!!!
Oh yooooooo whooooo, tulips fizzle out after about 2-3 years even if you plant them in a raised bed and at a depth about 2" deeper than what's called for to protect them from our scorching heat. They're pretty safe and they're planted up close to my home with gasp... hyacinths (those also fizzle out after a few years)... and gasp... iris (those don't fizzle out so you have to waste some when they start multiplying).
I have a bulb auger and I'm not afraid to use it!
equil already slipped, hence the broken arm????? why have 2??
I did not slip. I tripped going up. There's a big difference. Those stairs to that train just came out of nowhere- honest, cross my heart.
Fizzle out? I had tulips and hyacinths at our other house up here. I should say the new owners of the house have tulips and hyacinths that they inherited with the house. Planted, somewhere in the mid 80's. Hyacinths clump just got getting larger and larger, so I divided them, but the tulips got a bigger clump too. I just never divided those. And I had a lot of them. Plus daffodils. Those were a really huge clump(s) and should of been divided also.
Fizzle out........phssssssssphhhsssssssss
Mine have been in the ground for longer than that and are doing great. My grandma's have been in longer than I have been alive and are doing great. Must be the zones.
hope to die, stick a needle in your eye??? I get to stick the needle by the way....
She's in the same zone as I am!! It's not the zone, her memory is failing her!!
I already ordered bulbs and keep forgetting that I ordered them. I'm afraid that I'll forget to get the beds ready & won't be prepared when the order is delivered. I've already forgotten what I ordered & where I wanted to plant them. I don't even remember who I ordered them from.
You did say your name was GREENbrain right? NOT forgetfulbrain, or oldbrain, or? some OTHER excuse for forgetting all those details? If you paid with credit card you could find it on your charge card records... Oh wait... I fsee, if you FORGET that you ordered some you can order MORE without guilty feelings!!! How silly that I did not see that from the beginning!
Say whaaaaaaaaa, nobody's sticking any more needles in me. I've had enough needles lately.
I already ordered bulbs and keep forgetting that I ordered them. I'm afraid that I'll forget to get the beds ready & won't be prepared when the order is delivered. I've already forgotten what I ordered & where I wanted to plant them. I don't even remember who I ordered them from.
I have my tulips in a raised bed and I maybe get three years out of them. Same deal with hyacinth but those smell so nice I can't resist planting more. If I don't add more of the same Emporer White Tulip every year, the bed ends up looking spotty. I'm in the same zone as Terry but I'm gardening in heavy clay. If they ever create a clay buster tulip, I'd probably have to plant something else. One plant that I could end up with bushel baskets of if I didn't thin them out and toss the divisions would be hostas. Those plants go wild over here. They don't run or anything but they get huge.
If you paid with credit card you could find it on your charge card records... Oh wait... I fsee, if you FORGET that you ordered some you can order MORE without guilty feelings!!! How silly that I did not see that from the beginning!
Tulips shouldn't have a problem in clay. Mine are in clay from the road, in mostly shade and are thriving.
Sorry about your arm Equil, it is so frustrating to be thwarted in the midst of a big project. I had also started a long delayed project using "gifted " pavers to fill a strip down the center of the driveway, to temporarily deal with the long stretch of weeds and dirt from a construction project( Notice I said temporary, eventually all the asphalt will be removed and the whole driveway graveled by professionals). Of course I decided to complicate the project (did I mention my middle name is complicate?). Sooo, I had to dig down a foot, add gravel,compost ,and peat and top with gravel around the pavers( so I could add plants). The dirt was like concrete so I had to scrape it away slowly. I finished an area and added 3 pavers when I completely killed my back but did I stop? Of course not, I just wanted to add 2 more. Halfway through I crawled inside and now I'll have to wait because I can barely move.
Hi pepper,
I have tulips in the clay also that came with the house. They are going strong after 16 years. When I dig them up to move them they are down about 10". But the fancy ones I added last just a few years. The ones that last are called perennial tulips when offered for sale.
Ahhh...but see Ms. Equil wasn't thwarted half why thru her project....oh no! She had the broken arm when she bought the stepping stones!! She's had the broken arm, for what now Ms. Equil? A month? More?
Oh Pepper, you should drive up by me and inspect my Emporer tulips and tell me what I am doing wrong with them that don't last much longer than a few years ;) The first year I lose about half. The second year I lose about a half of what's left. By the third year, I've got a lone tulip here and there and that's about it. I started buying the same Emporer tulip and filling in once I learned others with experiencing the same decline. I don't know which tulips Terry has but most of the people buying them around here have to add to their tulip beds. When you come to inspect my declining tulip populations, we could flip through a few catalogs.
Hey sempervirens, where have you been? Busy summer? I think my middle name is the same as yours. I saw the stepping stones on clearance last week (voice of reason above is correct). I bought them thinking they would be an easy project for me to do by myself. Setting them became a little bit more complicated than anticipated and is ending up being sort of like your gift pavers. Hope your back holds out so you can finish your project otherwise maybe you could call "Rent-A-Husband"?
Graveled driveways are extremely environmentally friendly. I didn't know that when we put asphalt in here. When our asphalt ultimately crumbles and fails, we're having our driveway professionally re-done too only we're going to go a somewhat different route that would be approved by our Home Owners Association albeit equally as environmentally friendly as gravel. Good for you for not paving yours over with asphalt or concrete.
Yesterday I got a call back from the head husband at the service I contacted. I can have three husbands for two days or two husbands for three days. Three might be hard to work with since the stepping stones are all close together and one of my husbands will have to be using a pick axe in close proximity to the husband that will have the spade so I'm leaning toward asking for only two extra husbands so that I can help set the stepping stones in the sand. There goes all the savings I had realized buying my stepping stones on clearance. I can get my husbands next week and they will call me when they can come. Because I need two husbands, they may have to spread out sending husbands for my project. The head husband doesn't think I'll able to get them three days in a row but that's ok.
Equil,
I've been around, I guess I've been posting more on other forums. edited to add: It's nice to be missed.
What will you use instead of gravel?
This message was edited Sep 11, 2007 12:17 PM
Something similar to this or what ever product manufactured to carry the weight of vehicles that is out at the time we go to make improvements-
http://www.grassypavers.com/
New products hit the market yearly so we'll have to see what's available down the road.
My husband is just shaking his head. We are slowly but surely moving toward eliminating our lawn. About ten to 15 years from now, we will eliminate our driveway. He can't get over the fact that we will be mowing our driveway while leaving our lawn be.
Are you planting your tulips 6 inches deep? Also they don't need full sun. Mine are in complete shade except for winter and spring when there are few to no leaves. The soil is gravel road clay. In other words my dad went down with a shovel one day to the road and dug up along our property line thinking it was rich soil. NOT!! Tulips are the only thing growing there now except for weeds. Maybe try different tulips and see if that helps. I have wally world Darwin Hybrids, Spring green, queen of the night, bunch flowering ones, an unknown freebie from work, and Gudoshnik- DH. And I have room for more. Check out that link I sent you.
why not buy or rent a tiller to till the path? you will have to go over a few times but will fluff and loosen soil so you can lay stone and then after rain stones should settle in. plus the little critters will have an easier time digging to get underneath.
Why didn't we think of that?????? :~)
I don't know, but my big honda tiller is one of the most useful garden tools i have. there is always something to till lol! good for bulbs, hedge rows, etc.
Yeah, my dad is always tilling at my grandmas. She has biiiiig plans for her gardens and he has to till everything.