Stepping stones

I've wanted to add some stepping stones for a while to my woodland area. Reason being is some frogs and toads like to dig in underneath them to overwinter. Here's the problem I'm having. There are little twigs, acorns, and other types of lumpy debris on the ground. I've brushed that away to set a few stepping stones down just to get a visual of what I was doing. When I placed the stepping stones down and stepped on one of them, I must have missed some debris and my weight cracked it in half. I need to set these in something to level them as well as to distribute the weight of who ever steps on them better but don't quite know what will work in this area. The stepping stones were purchased for an area that is already a footpath from deer. When it rains heavily, the water actually follows the trodden path. If I set the stepping stones in sand, I'm afraid the sand will wash out from underneath them over time and I'll be back to square one with the stepping stones cracking in half when someone actually uses them. If I set them in top soil, it's going to be a muddy mess. Am I going to have to dig down directly underneath where each and every stepping stone is supposed to be set to try to level the area before putting them in position or is there some sort of a quick fix to this situation out there?

Has anyone ever had to deal with stepping stones on hard compacted ground? Ideally I had wanted to place them on a humousy mix of sphagnum and sand that was loose. I guess this is not going to work. I really wanted some sort of a material underneath each stepping stone that critters could burrow into. These were more for function than for aesthetics.

edited to correct spelling error of said to sand.

This message was edited Sep 6, 2007 10:19 PM

Mulch maybe? Straw, wood, sawdust?

Mulch is too chunky but I never thought of using sawdust until you mentioned it. Good suggestion.

I don't think I'm going to be able to avoid digging down a few inches under each and every stepping stone. I am sort of hoping somebody has had to deal with this because I have 180 of these stepping stones and that is not a typo.

Well............when I lay stepping stones down, I place it where I want it then using a spade, slice the turf/dirt around the stone to get the shape, then I lift the stepping stone and dig out the sod and plop it back in. I get them level by using dirt where ever it's not level, then stamping down hard with my feet on the stepping stone. Never done it in a woodland setting though. Do the deer really need stepping stones?? ;D

No, the deer seem to manage to destroy everything they can reach to get their teeth on to eat without stepping stones. I have a word for people who make comments like that ;)

The stepping stones were supposed to be two-fold. An area under which herps that hibernated in those types of areas could hang out over winter as well as a defined area to keep people on the path so they didn't trample my plantings.

I wish I was in sod but I'm not. Son of a gun, I think I bit off more than I can chew this time when I bought so many stepping stones. Good ole eyes bigger than stomach! They sure will look nice and might even be functional if I ever get them all set.

You have a word?? Since when??

Surely a spade can dig in down around the stones? He-woman you! Argh and throw a log on the fire and all that macho jazz.......lol.....

Yes, a spade can do it x 180. The thought of scraping down 2" x a 20" diameter circle to be able to provide a base for that many stepping stones in compacted ground with surface roots every where doesn't thrill me right about now. I did break my arm again in July and that does sort of cramp my style. Argh back at ya- with my luck I'd toss the log on the fire and the fire gods would toss it back out at me and break my other arm.

You could make a little bed of straw or pine needles under each stepping stone, I would think that material would break down slowly.

Do you think the deer will actually use the stepping stones? heehee

Ha,
My dog uses our stepping stones. You should see him waddle.
We have put stepping stones on clay, and sand. You do have to level the area. I am thinking sand could fill in to level, instead of digging that hard soil. Sometimes we would set a stone and add dirt to level, instead of digging.
It is alot of work the other way, esp if you have mega stones to place.
We used pea stone in one area, that was easy to level and looks pretty nice.
Good luck with your project.

Party at my house! pepper23, terryr, fly_girl, and cpartschick are invited. BYOS ;)

Good try! LOL

Hey lady, you're the one who bought 180 of them! Not us! If you don't get them down into the ground, you're going to trip over them and yea, break your other arm, your shoulder, your ankle when you twist off it........

Sheesh, you are not getting much help huh? Lots of hot air and no muscle. LOL

Geeze, I thought the "bring your own spade" was sort of cute. Oh well. Can't blame a gal for trying.

The problem is that I thought it would be as simple as slapping these things down on the ground after loosening up the soil a little bit. They may just have to sit there all stacked up nice and neat until I can figure out what to do with them that won't be so labor intensive. I've got a call out to a friend of mine who is a herpatologist. Maybe he can think of something and hoepfully he won't gasp for air laughing when I tell him how many of these stepping stones I bought.

I hope they were on sale.
I did like the "bring your own spade" but, not even to intice me to manual labor. ha. Not falling for that!

I'm glad somebody liked the BYOS- now if only someone would just come!

Yes, I got them on clearance for an incredible $4 a piece. Happy Dance!

What does BYOS mean??

What??

What???

Huh???

I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!!

LOL. Nice try!!

LOL, Terry, I think it means Bring Your Own Stepping Stone.

I can bring those!! We make them all the time at work. I can find the ugly ones and bring them. LOL. And I will find the rustiest spade and the one that is so bent it is useless.......

Noooooooooooooooooooo, BYOS means bring your own spade ladies!

Git your spades women and come on over and play with me!

BYOS means what???

What????

What did you say??

I can't hear anything but waawaawaawaawaawaawaa........???

Speak up!

I still can't hear you!!

SPADE
SPADE
SPADE

BRING YOUR OWN SPADE

Can you hear me now?

SPADE dear, be sure to bring it the next time ya visit now ya hear. From here on out, no admittance to the property without one.

Just a thought- how about leveling the spot as best you can, or digging out a little, then plop a big dollop of mortar/cement in and "bed" down your stepper. The mortar shold fill in any spaces, and if you put a big enough dollop, it should ooze out the sides, which you could tidy up with a trowel, then backfill with soil, or plant some yummy chamomile around! Have fun.

I think that is a good idea. I bet that would work.

Hi Equil,

I'm impressed that you've planted an area that requires 160 stepping stones. Wow! That must be some woodland garden you have there.

I'm not experienced enough to advise you on the best method to lay those stones, but see that others have come up with some good suggestions. I'm going to keep a watch on this thread because I plan to lay some stepping stones myself.

As far as a project that large, I like to break it down into laying 5 or 10 stones at a time. Plan to do so many a day or week. This gives you a chance to see how the first 5 or 10 turn out. Better than going back and redoing 160. Of course, if you've planted such a large area over time, I'm sure that you already know this.

I'm thinking of making my own pavers. Make a few pavers and lay a bit of path. Mine will need to hold up to the foot traffic of 3 dogs who think that they are greyhounds. LOL

Believe it or not weed_woman is brilliant and just listed out what I should do to put an end to this, "plop a big dollop of mortar/cement in and "bed" down your stepper. The mortar shold fill in any spaces, and if you put a big enough dollop, it should ooze out the sides".

One problem- I really did buy these stepping stones for the toads and frogs to burrow under over winter and mortar isn't something their little front feet can dig through. This sucks. My husband told me to take them back or leave them where they are until we can do something about them. I'm sort of disappointed. I wanted them in the ground right away as fall is almost here and before we know it snow will be swirling down to the ground.

Several years ago I visited a property of a friend who gardens for wildlife. It was just after Thanksgiving. I saw that she had stepping stones in bizarre places where people wouldn't walk and blurted out, "what do you have stepping stones there for"? She began to gently lift up several stepping stones. I was in amazement when I could see that there were toads and salamanders, and I think spring peepers under many of her stepping stones. She told me she added as many as she could afford because of the frogs. My place here is loaded with frogs and toads and salamanders. Ever since I saw all that was under her stepping stones, I've had this dream of doing the same thing. Only difference is that I want some order to my stepping stones. I must admit her place looks very unique with about 100 different stepping stones scattered all over the place. I think she buys them one at a time so they are all different. I'm not saying her place looks bad but my husband wouldn't be too happy with me if I did what she did over here.

Hey greenbrain, I haven't exactly planted the whole area that these will go in but I have removed all of the invasive species from that area and watch it like a hawk to keep it clear. I've been planting back little bit by little bit here and there and my bet is that over the next 5 years or so, it will be filled in with vegetation. I've probably planted over 3500 individual plants and plugs back there and that is no exaggeration. It's the grasses that are hard to establish in that area. As soon as I go to get bottlebrush grass established (or any other grass), the European starlings descend by the hundreds and wipe me clean. I've resorted to seeding during snow storms so that hopefully I get enough snow to blanket my seed so those darn birds can't wipe me out. The ferns and other woodland flowers that I have planted from plugs or mature plants are doing fine... it's the grasses that need to be companion planted with the forbs that I'm being stripped clean of. In order to have a good solid woodland plant setting that is resistant to ickies and nasties, I need a community of different plants and I am sorely lacking in the grass and sedge department. terryr has been over here, she could probably describe those couple of acres better than me.

Jeez, no need to scream! I ain't def ya know!

Is it just compacted? How 'bout using a pick ax? If a pick ax can go thru clay and hit rock to be removed, the pick at it again, I don't see why it wouldn't work for you too. Once the stone is in there, back fill in the sides and level it with the dirt you've removed. I still think you need them down level with the dirt, so nobody trips over them. When was the last time hubby was in the woods that he'd notice the different stones? Or should I say when does hubby have time to walk thru the woods? He has the manicured front lawn, you take the woods.

Eq, I misuderstood, I thought the ss's were for walking on, or are you doing both..some in the woods, here and there, for the critters and some on the path? I would think if the critters can crawl under the ss's on the path, they would be squished when someone walks on them.

I buy 6" clay pots and break off a wedge shape, then set it in the garden. Every time I lift it up there is a fat happy toad in there.

Good thing you have Terry close to come and help.....if I lived closer I would help you out!

Naa Terry, it's just that I'm sort of not in tip top shape right now to use a pick axe. I'm right handed and that's the arm I keep breaking. Under normal circumstances I could get all of those in the ground in probably one or two weekends at the most complete with a nice loose sublayer of sand and sawdust for the frogs. Right now I'm using my left arm. Have you ever tried to brush your teeth or hair with the arm you don't write with? It's weird. You don't have the strength or the control you do using the opposite arm and doing anything takes like 4x as long.

Hey fly_girl, the stepping stones are sort of supposed to serve a dual purpose. Primary being for the frogs and secondary being to keep people on them so they aren't trampling new plantings for the next few years. Seedlings are often times hard to spot and people walk right on them thinking they're just a weed. By going with all matched stepping stones, I also appease my husband who wants some curb appeal here. Personally, I sort of like the mismatched stepping stone look. It's got the feel of a work in progress because you can see that some were old and purchased from garage sales and flea markets, some were new, and some were gifts. I know I've given her stepping stones over the years to add to her collection. Mine will all be uniform because that will keep my husband happy while providing for my frogs and such.

As far as them getting squished; during the spring, summer, and fall about the only thing I find under anything I have like that is salamanders. They wiggle under there somehow and the little tunnel they make somehow protects them from being squished when you step on the stone as the person's weight is distributed to other areas somehow. So far, nothing has ever been squished. I've not found frogs under anything until sometime around Thanksgiving and then nobody is out walking around on stepping stones anyway. I know exactly what you are talking about when you say you crack up clay pots. I toss all mine that are broken out for the toads too. Isn't that just the neatest thing to lift one up and find a big fat toad!

My husband really likes the stepping stones but he certainly doesn't have time to get them in the ground. He likes them so much that a beautiful concrete urn appeared here this morning that matches the stepping stones. He showed me where he thought it should go. The urn he bought will look nice in that area and I can plant something native in it to spill over the edges.

Tee he, terryr would come and help me even though she's about 3.5 hours away. I'm just sort of whining right now because I thought this would be easier and I'm one of those people who wants everything done as in yesterday and was trying to come up with a quick fix. My girlfriend's stepping stones are all just set on the ground but then her ground isn't compacted. For this winter I have tons of habitat brush piles and firewood piles and leaves all over the place so my critters will find nice places to hibernate. Let's face it, I got the biggest kick out of lifting up her stepping stones and finding all the treasures beneath that I wanted to do that over here too.

I LOVE toads & frogs. Yeah, they're worth it!

Mrs Equilibrium. I feel the need to point out something that you repeat to me over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, you bite off more than you can chew. Always. You buy more plants than you can get into the ground, now you've bought stepping stones and your arm is broken. Why do you keep doing this to yourself? If Mr. Equilibrium can buy an urn that matches the stepping stones and point out where it should go, then why can't he help to set almost a couple hundred stepping stones. Notice it's not in the form of a question, because it's a rhetorical question, so no need to answer. I know, I know, I know, he works all the time. Vacation time. Help the Mrs. out. IF you want Mr. terryr and terryr to come up, armed with pick ax and spades, can you wait till it cools off?

It has cooled off down here. :~p Even gonna get in the 40s at night. Ahhhh.......

If you guys didn't live so far up there I would be there in a heart beat.

Hey, don't pick on me. I have low self esteem.

Mrs R, I know you would help if I asked which is why I didn't ask.

Mr E was trying his best to hire some people to come out and set them for me because he knows how I am. He ran up against a brick wall. It's a busy time of year for landscapers but we can get on the schedule to have them set next spring. By next spring I'll be able to do it myself.

I could easily get what I buy in the ground if I would stop breaking body parts and if the weather would cooperate. You have to admit we have had some really bizarre weather the past few years from one extreme to the other and lots of people had problems getting everything in the ground. Even then I still manage to get everything in the ground... somehow. I remember that one year I was out in my parka with flood lights after dark drilling holes in the ground for tulip bulbs. I got them all in even with the snow swirling and they came up the next year. And these stepping stones were supposed to be able to be just set down. They didn't cooperate. It's the stepping stones fault. I'll have to take pictures of my stepping stone stacks. It's pretty funny actually.

Hey Mrs R. one more thing... greenbrain above was the wonderful person we were supposed to go and meet at the Missouri Botanical Gardens. You, me, and her for sure next spring regardless of what damage we have done to our bodies! We need to just pick a date and go for it! And, she likes frogs so she's our kinda gal for sure! We really do need to pick a date then go and post somewhere to see if anyone else (Pepper, fly_girl, weed_woman, cpartschick) wants to drive to Missouri to go the Botanical Garden there. I've wanted to go to that place for a while and it would be nice to be able to meet a few people and go out to eat dinner together after spending a day in the gardens.

Count me in!!! I want to see it too!!!

Thanks for the invite Eq, too bad it's about a million miles away, sounds fun though. The Houston museum had a frog exhibit a while back and it was incredible, the neatest frogs from all over the world.

You probably should pamper that arm for it to heal. If the R's come to help, all you would have to do is point with it LOL

That urn sounds lovely!

My 2 cents worth... I have made beautiful stepping stone from cement poured in scuplted molds and they are FRAGILE if the ground underneath them is not level. Yep, it's a pain.

Have you considered contacting some place where you can hire casual labor by the day? We have a couple of places in my home town you can call and tell them you need how many guys for so long, doing... and they will send somebody out.

I've also know of people who have hired a youth group to do work. This is especially nice when you know a group who is trying to raise funds for something. (How many car wash fund raisers have you seen??) School has started... how about the local high school, do they have a horticulture class you could hire from??? Isn't the local HS band going somewhere this year? The cheerleaders need to raise $ for their uniforms?

Of course my kids think I only had them for slave labor! Too bad I'm 300 miles away now when I need their help!
Pat

I recently learned that my niece WORKS at Missouri Botanical Garden in the new Children's Garden. I started taking her along on family outings when she was 10 years old. She e-mailed me recently with the news and boy was I surprised. I know how much she loved going along as a kid. I guess that she's been bitten by the gardening bug-- though her mom; my oldest sister; always was the real "green thumb" in the family. I'll have to post some of our fav photos from MBG taken this past summer. I'll also try to get some good fall photos to share. Here's all that I could find for now taken last fall. My lil' gr-d always runs to sit on this sheep and cries when I take her off. That's her Auntie sitting behind to make sure that she doesn't fall. In the background is the entrance to the Chinese Garden and in front is the new Children's Garden. Off to the far left is the Climatron and to the right the Kemper Home Demo Gardens. We plan to visit tomorrow after church. I'm really looking forward to it. I believe that the English Woodland Garden has some woodchip paths edged with logs. You notice these things when you're pushing a stroller. I'll try to take a better look tomorrow. : )

Oh yeah, Equil. I'm really sorry to hear about your arm. That would really bum me out!

Mrs E, it's the working in the dark in a parka in the freezing cold blizzard conditions and the working till midnight while trying to keep the mosquitoes from carrying you away, to digging trenches in 150 degree weather that I'm talking about. That's biting off more than you can chew, when you have to work 48 hours in a day to get done all that you've bought. That's what I'm talking 'bout!!

I'd rather go to a nature preserve that is all native plants and by golly, they're having a native plant sale while we're there. I don't wanna see manicured flower beds with plants I don't care about. I wanna see wild. I wanna see nature at it's finest. Know any place like that? And in IL?