DAILY BUTTERFLIES Page 15

Continued from> http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/761243/

Welcome on in everyone as we continue posting daily butterflies. I am so thrilled to see all your activity, and will be posting progress on what I have here. Everyone is welcome to weave into our discussion at any time. Remember there's no such thing as a dumb question here. We hit mysteries all the time, and usually get solid resolutions. Speaking of mysteries, Don't forget about Chris' Cherry tree cat we need an ID for at the bottom of the above referenced link page. We know what it eats, but still need to know what conditions it requires to pupate.
Here is the post for it> http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=3887438

This is the Gulf Frit in the last thread that was on my hand, I set it on a Zinnia among all it's flittering friends to dry the rest of the way.

Thanks for joining us!
Debnes


This message was edited Aug 22, 2007 7:14 PM

Ooooh...purty. I know I have at least two or three Gulf Frit cats in with the ZLWs. When I was pulling the eggs off I saw one Gulf Frit egg, and a couple days ago it hatched, along with one or two others (I can't remember). It should be fun to watch them grow up!

I do have a question, and I forgot to ask it earlier. I saw this once and thought it was a fluke, but then I saw it again. Do the little cats have the ability to release thread they can hang from? I rescued one a while back that was dangling fom the vine, but I thought maybe a spider web had gotten on there somehow. But then as I've been moving cats lately, I've seen some of them do it. Like, I would try to place them on the leaf and pull the pencil up, thinking they were securely on the leaf. But then there would be a small thread and they would be hanging from the pencil. Sometimes it took a couple tries before they would let go and get on the leaf.

Mom and I have the cat cage sitting on the couch in between us now and she's been having fun trying to figure out what they're up to. My big one, who should be a bf soon, has been rolling around in the leaves. I put a fresh leaf in there for food, and of course he started eating the stem first. Oh! When I put the leaf in, I poked him with it a little bit like, "Look, fresh food!" It made him upset because a little crease in his forehead opened up and these yellow horn thingies came out and waved at me. So of course I did it again! Then I said, "Oooh, he must be mad at me", at which point my brother muttered, "Gee, I wonder why." This is so much fun!

Melanie

LOL Mellie!
Very entertaining indeedy!! Yes the silk that comes out when they fall is to save them from crashing to the ground or losing touch with their host plant. I give the piece a little spin to keep them on. Your Poly cats are just like Pipevine in that they like the stems. I began using more stemmy cuttings for them because of this. .. However the Pipevine and Polys are poisonous and they seem to do better for me to leave them outside now. I had some good documentation at the first of the season, and they fend for themselves well enough. This opened up all the vacancies for new species that are more vulnerable.

The osmeterium emittion is a smell I still don't like much though.. I don't like to rile them, lol

Girl you keep me in stitches!!

Deb

I didn't smell anything when he did it, but I thought that's what he was doing. The pipevine is pretty smelly though so maybe it overpowered him. I have them in the little cage because they were wasting too much pipevine. They just eat through the stems and then I have leaves all over the bottom. So now they're in timeout and I keep reminding them that there are starving caterpillars out there in the wild and not to waste their food.

Mellie, you are so funny. lol : )
~Lucy

LOL Mellie, they do waste much of the leaf and they congregate all together, real close, don't they? It's weird to see 3 fattie Polys all close around a little Pipevine stem.

thank you sooo much Deb for taking the time to make me a "short" list...lol...i will make a copy of it and start my research...as far as what kind of butterfly bush i have...i know what it is but i am sure i will not spell it right....you have permission to laugh...budelia...ok..i think you can decipher what that one is...it is the darker purple of the kind
hummingbird

Great Hummingbird,
Then you have the Buddleia davidii, (Black Knight). That will attract a lot of butterflies to nectar. The thing is too, that you can grow what's on the list and here in TX those things don't last at all if I try to grow them. Do you have the Oregon Gardening, Perennial, and Seed Trade Forums on your 'watch' list? Around Sept-Oct last year I got fixed up sooooo good from all the great ppl here at DG! I know you will too.

You might put feelers out for other people on DG that garden for butterflies there in OR. Posting a thread in the Oregon Gardening Forum should do it. LMK if you hit a snag.

Deb

Just thought of something hummingbird~
Copy the list of nectar plants and post it on the Seed Trade "Wants". Anyone who has them will speak up, and help you fill your list. If you get even half of it you will be in great shape.

:-D

So far I havent been able to get the cherry tree cat to look at the camera, will keep trying.
Is there a specific spice bush that I need to have in order to get those little cuties, or can I pick out the shortest variety?
Is it ok that there are black carpenter ants overtaking my cassia or will they hurt the cats? Sulphur BF are on it every day, but I have only found 4 cats.

Everytime I go to get fresh leaves for the monarch cats, I see more cats, I usually bring in 6-10 leaves and they are the ones that have cats or eggs on them. I feel guilty leaving them out there. My husband says to leave some for the birds. I lost count at 30 of all sizes, probably have about 40 now. Ok, here is the question...In the picture is one that just doesnt belong. I dont know what he is but it looks similar to one that I had on alstroemeria a while back, dont know what ever happened to him.
Can I just leave him in there? I brought most of them in when they were so small, I probably never noticed I had a stow-a-way.
Congrats on everyones releases,, it is great to see everyones pictures.
Hummingbird, I have some butterfly weed (asclepias curassavica) seeds if you would like some.

chris

Here is what I learned about the ants on Cassia:
"Role in the habitat: It is the food plant of some butterflies. The plant recruits ant bodyguards against these caterpillars. It has "extrafloral nectaries" near the base of the leaves, that produce sweet nectar to attract ants."
Suppose that explains why your finding so few smaller cats or eggs. When and if the cats get bigger the ants are less likely to attack them unless they are dead.

I was lucky enough to witness the actual egg laying, and knew basically where to look. That was a week ago Sunday, and they are now an inch long. Checking for cats and eggs every day would be the only way to conserve whatever possible, unless a few slip through a safety porthole of time. When they get bigger their whip-snapping action they do can deter some predators.

I see the Monarch in the pic, but the other 2 aren't that clear. What all do you have there?

:-D

Anyone know if these are Border Patches for sure?

What's that they are munchin' on Sheila?

Y'all~ I just got off the phone with Sheila and she said the plant the cats are on is Frostweed. I will be cheking mine now, for cats, of course..:-)

The cat is a Silver Checkerspot

Sheila here is the link I found: http://www.dallasbutterflies.com/Butterflies/LARVA/nycteislarva.htm

How cool! Congrats Sheila!

Deb, the whole cage is all monarchs (about 40) from the same 3 plants of butterfly weed. The black cat with yellow stripes (top left of picture) is the only odd-ball. Must have come in small enough for me not to see him. Maybe even as an egg stage.

Is there any preference of spicebush for the spice bush cats?

chris

good evening everyone
well Deb i read your suggestions and i will put them on my "to do list" for this weekend...if i dont get it done before then...
i know that teasel is wild here and plentiful...so i plan on going out foraging this weekend for seed...lol...i am thinking i should maybe plant it in a huge plant pot???...not sure if it will take over if i dont....what are your thoughts on elderberry and queen anns lace?
oh yes Chris i would love some butterfly weed seed...do you want some teasel after i go foraging?

You are right on with the ID Deb! Thanks for letting me know what they are. I can afford a Frostweed plant to be able to enjoy them this summer. I may bring a few of them in to see how they morph. They may be large enough now since the bf they become isn't very large.

My DH said that we have really had the insects, butterflies, moths, dragonflies, etc this last year or so. He said maybe I just haven't noticed them, then said....but also we haven't use pesticides in several years either. Duh! He finally got what I have been saying to him. LOL!

Ooh, I think I have skipper cats! I'm growing a legume vine that I believe is some variety of Yard Long Bean. Four off-white eggs appeared on the underside of 2 different leaves. Two hatched and they look skipper-like. Each has torn little bitty pieces of leaf edge to fold over themselves. So cute...whitish bodies and black heads.

How great Linda! Those are hard to find, guess I would have better luck if I used a magnifiying glass like Deb does. I have been seeing sulphurs in my garden lately, hope I get to see one of those cats in person this year.

Yeah Hummingbird,
.......The teasel should be alright wherever you plant it.. Sure it might spread, but many of the articles suggest leaving/making a small weed patch to attract new butterflies. Monarchs are known to like teasel for nectar.

.....According to this http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ldplants/2plants.htm
Lindera benzoin (Spicebush) works well in OR. It should come back every spring when mulched in fall. Leave the branches so it will bud forth and develop more leaves the following season. If you need to control the size, it can be cut back 1/3 without harming the plant.
As far as having any Spicebush Swallowtails in Oregon see this map>
http://www.butterfliesandmoths.org/species?l=1379
.......The Queen Anne's Lace is a beautiful plant. It grows in spring and fall here, and will probably do well there in OR too. They grow a few feet tall and make a lovely accent in a layered bed, though they might pop up a little invasive. It is a carrot family plant, so it's larval host for Black Swallowtail, however the same as Spicebush in that it isn't known to travel as far as OR. See map: http://www.butterfliesandmoths.org/species?l=1356
........If I lived in OR I would probably not plant wither of these, bc I have limited space for highly functional butterfly plants and not much else.

:-)

The Silver Checkerspot is a beautiful lil butterfly! Sheila it's so neat to have some to document and raise!! You found them at the perfect time, they've had a good start, and it won't be long until they pupate. Very excited for you!

Congrats Linda!! Good eye to spot the skippers. (You know me),.... I would love to see them when pics are takable. I'd like to see the white skipper larvae, (mine cats are green ~ Silver Spotted). Cat found chrysalids of the skippers she gets in the leaf litter under her snout bean vine. Which legume do you have? Skippers are so sweet, and interesting to raise!

This has been such a year of 'firsts' for me.

D

It's so much fun to have people in different parts of the country in this discussion. Makes it more interesting, for sure. I have some sad news and that is that my ZLW cats died. I have no idea why; I hope it's not the passion vine. I have p. Incense and p. caerulea (which is what they were on). I was planning to get some of the native kinds, so we'll see how that does. In the meantime, I found six more eggs so they're hanging out with me. I'm going to put them in a new habitat after I go to the pet store tomorrow. I might have to experiment a bit to see how to best raise them. Dad thinks when I moved them I might have unintentionally hurt them. I had one still alive last night, but today he was a goner.

In better news, the Polydamas cats are all doing well. I had seven hatch and each day I count them all to make sure they're still there. I have to squint and look from many angles, but I did find them all. The bigger ones are still happily munching; I make sure to break off a little piece of stem when I give them leaves. They were all crawling on top of each other to eat the stem; it was so cute. My super huge cat has been hanging on the side of the cage since yesterday. He did eat a bit, and now he's just stuck to the side. I'm not sure how he can support his weight. I've been yelling at him to become a butterfly already, but I'm not sure he speaks English. I'm sure he's going to pupate soon; I'm just very impatient. Last night he kept rubbing his face on the stem but he didn't really eat it which I found strange. Don't know what that was all about; it's so cool to watch their behaviors as they grow.

Melanie

I agree Mellie! I love the diversity we have in here. It is fun to help with research in those other areas too. Who knows I might wind up in another part of the country some day and will use the findings I have researched for myself! If not it is way cool to watch all of you have success!

The ZLW (to my knowledge), uses P. suberosa (corkey stem PV), or P. lutea as a host plant. Some of the FL buddies here have raised them with as much ease as I do Frits to full fruition., but they were all using either of the two above. I had no idea which cultivar you were using... I am so sorry I didn't ask now bc I have heard the ZLW will lay her eggs on just about any PV available, but they die if it isn't the right ones..

Aw Mel, dad gummit!
Now y'all know why I ask so many questions.. so so sorry girlfriend :-

It's ok, I was going to order some plants anyway from mailordernatives.com (great folks) and I ordered some p. lutea tonight. I also ordered the native pipevine a. tomentosa (endangered, too!), some spicebush, and some pawpaws (the little kind). Oh, and the p. incarnata, duh! I knew I was forgetting something.

Do these Polydamas ever pupate? My big one came down from the side and now he's eating again! By the way, I have a question after reading something on the Mail Order Natives website. They said the Eastern Mayhaw (Crataegus aestivalis) is a host plant for the Red Spotted Purple. Now, I live right on the edge of their territory, but I would really like to attract them if I could. I do have three Parsley Hawthorns (Crataegus marshalii) in the yard, and I just wondered if anyone had ever heard or had any experience with the RSP and this genus of trees.

Ooh, big Polydamas is climbing up to the top. Mom and I are on constant vigil with this one. She even emails me updates when I'm at work! Oh, now he's crawling back down. False alarm folks! It's like labor pains with these cats - you're never sure if it's the real deal or not!

Melanie

Mellie,
Good you got a handle on te plants, sounds like you are in business. I have a lot of seed for A. tomentosa. Becky says it pops right up for her there. Send me a SASE if you want to try growing it that way too. Seriously, I bought an ounce, and I'm not near out. They are kept in the fridge pretty fresh. Tomentosa is also a TX native.

I noticed the same thing with my PV cats, and they wonder around like that sometimes until they die very often. That's why I now opt to leave them outside free. You will get skads of the butterflies that way. Taking them in after they pupate is better bc they are more vulerable to dammage as a chrysalis, just not as confussed about whether to eat or pupate.
Remember, pipevine is poisonous, so are the cats. They really get confussed in captivity. I save the cages for more vulnerable cats like Sulphurs, BSTs, and Monarchs. Even tho Monarchs are poisonous too, they are easy to raise without the probs as PVs as cats.

Deb

Melanie, it is good to hear that I am not the only one going crazy with this new found hobby. My kids now call me the butterfly lady. My neighbors now ask me on a regular basis if there are going to be any butterflys born on saturday or sunday so they can come watch. I am starting to worry myself a little, but it is very addicting.

Deb, I didnt know Monarchs were poisonous. To what? In all stages?
The Cherry tree cat has shed (if thats the correct term) into the next instar. I will try to get another picture tomorrow. Under a magnifying glass it has clusters of yellow hairy spikes.
chris

I know, I know... how many photos of caterpillars can we have, right?

I just wanted to share a couple of mine... hope you don't mind.

This is a shot I got this evening while changing cat cages... shows three different stages on one leaf.

Chris, my neighbors all just smile and wave as they drive by. I'm sure they already think I'm crazy for gardening in the heat and humidity. I took over landscaping the front of the street because it was just "too hard" for everybody else. I guess I have the same advantage as native Fl plants; as a native Floridian, you just get used to the heat. Although, I am looking forward to fall, our version of it anyway. I haven't been hiking in weeks; it's so hot and I had to carry so much water with me.

Deb, I was thinking of putting the cats back in the bf house with the pipevines. I just didn't want them to waste it all by chewing the stems through. I was losing so many leaves! But since I bought some more hopefully I'll be ok. Plus, my dad knows a guy on his route who has some pipevine. And if I get desperate I'll go to the botanical gardens, stuff my pockets with leaves, and put some money in the donation box to soothe my guilty conscience!

Melanie

This is the one I call "Fat Boy"...

And my daughters and I went out this evening to find fresh milkweed, and brought home eggs!
(And a couple more cats too...)

This is one of my Luna cats...

I currently have 14 lunas, and five monarchs...

lcf530 - there are a lot of comments floating around about monarchs, and others that eat toxic plants, such as Pipevine ST's, Polydamas and others, as being poisonous. There is a toxic substance in the plants, eaten by the cats, that protects the butterflies from predators (birds). Birds will eat one but no more. It doen't kill the birds (or people), it just keeps them from ever wanting to eat another one.

Enjoyed the picture. I have one with a Pipevine ST hanging in my beard, waiting for its wings to harden. It stayed there for well over an hour, and attracted a lot of people (we were in a major nursery that was hosting local Master Gardeners).

My problem is too many photo ops - butterflies, dragonflies, birds and flowers.

Rod

Karen - incredible pics!!! I think I'm the only one that doesn't know what milkweed looks like...ugh!

The three are perched on a whole leaf... let me see if I can take a quick pic of a whole plant...

BRB

OK...

Here is a plant I have in a vase. I will try to take some photos of the field when I go back out there this week, for a refill... LOL!!!

Thank you Karen...feel like I need plant ID for dummies...ugh!

A few photos from this week.
Longtailed Skipper (urbanus proteus). The first one I've seen in months! They are fairly common during the Fall season. I hope they make use of the Blue Pea Vine as a larval host this year.

~ Cat

I think Fatal Metalmark. This little bugger was perched on a duranta berry.

~ Cat

No idea what this bugger is...tussock moth of sorts??? Whatever it is, it has really done a number on my bluemist plants.

~ Cat

Ah...a Black Witch moth - male - that was perched near the garage security light. I often find moths on the brickwork in the early morning hours.

~ Cat