Grandpa Ott x Heavenly blue

Hi everybody,

I am new to this forum, but have now read all the threads, which have answered many of the questions I have had. This MG came from a German seed pack that contains many popular and old types of MG. I was particularly thrilled about this one, but couldn't put my finger on it if it was a flying saucer or heavenly blue...it definitely resembles the latter, but as eevysteevy suggested in an old link it may well be a mixture of Grandpa Ott x Heavenly blue. I don't know if it will remain true, but will try to handpollinated it.

I have had my first contact with Emma via Ebay, she is very nice, but I hope to make more friends at this forum, anyway...

I have been in Morocco, Fes, for almost three years now. It's my second year that I am growing MGs here, it's a miracle they grow here at all. Sometimes the sun is so intense that the flowers don't even have the engery to open up. Last year all my MGs were killed within 10 days by red spider mite despite all my efforts to save the plants. The climate is ideal for this bug and it does grow resistant so quickly...

This year I have been better prepared, spider mite is still here, but I have it pretty much under control...

My problem is I have a backyard that is pretty much self-contained and spider mite overwinters in the soil. It literally is enough to have a few left over, which will start the whole cycle again. I am not using heavy pesticides as I don't want to poison myself and am also growing some herbs in my planters...

But I hope to eventually knock out that darn spider mite completely, at least in my backyard...

Martin

gofast-Martin - Welcome to the MG forum...

The bloom of the plant you posted shows every sign of being Ipomoea tricolor "Heavenly Blue"...Granpa Ott's is Ipomoea purpurea and won't inter-specifically hybridize with I.tricolor...

The blooms of I.tricolor Heavenly Blue as seen in the PlantFiles here
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/112656/
often display the absence of the blue pigmentation around the outer edges of the limb >especially if the blooms have any difficulty opening or due to other forms of stress e.g.,water deprivation or extreme temperature fluctuations etc ...

Looking forward to your continued input to the forum...

TTY,...

Ron

Hi Martin and another welcome to the best forum here!! How are you trying control you mites. I had them bad this year . I won't use chemicals and tried a few thing but not much worked that's for sure...

Nice to meetcha, gofast-Martin. You might like to ask about spider mites on the DG Garden Pests and Diseases forum, too -

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/f/pad/all/

I would also be very interested to know what they come up with for you - not to mention learning more about what it's like to garden where you live. What's your favorite fragrant plant that does well there?

Thank you for joining us,

Karen

This message was edited Aug 20, 2007 7:45 AM

I can accept that explanation, Ron, however I have two heavenly blues in one container. The other day, I had 7 flowering blooms on them. 2 normal light blue ones on one plant, the others with the red edges were all on the other plant...but it is kind of hot today, so you may be right there is another flower opening in about an hour or so.

For spider mites, luvsgrtdanes (do you have grate danes?) try 50% alcohol mixed with 50% water and a few drops of dish-washing liquid . This is very important so that the surface tension of the water is lowered as the mites surround themselves with an air bubble. Once the air bubble bursts they are freed from any poison in the liquid and continue to live happily ever after...

Thanks Martin. Yes I have 2 Danes A Merle named Atticus and a Blue name Sabrina...how often do you spay?

Hello bluespiral, gardening in Morocco is pretty difficult because of the extreme temperatures. I love Amaryllis and morning glories. Problem with Amaryllis is that by the time I get them send over here from Europe it's getting cold here, so I need to start them by the middle of October at the latest, in order to root them properly.
We do not have heating here and I keep my plants outside that means growing conditions are not ideal for the Amaryllis. A second thing that makes gardening so hard here is the poor quality of the soil. It's clay and that can turn into stone when it's baked by the sun. Imported soil is very expensive, so I dediced to add various components such as sand, wood chips and kitchen waste to improve the quality of the soil. Pretty successfully, I can admit, amaryllis seem to love this soil mixture and although I had a huge problem with sciarid (fungus) flie that seemed to eat into my Amaryllis chips, this problem has resolved itself thanks to the presence of a little local spider that keeps the fly under control. Spider mite remains my greatest enemy. Hi luvsgreatdanes, I do spray the morning glories on my trellis whenever I feel the enemy is back. These mites seem to have eternal life. So spraying could be as often as daily considering that it is very dry and that mites love that kind of climate...

Martin, I haven't tried any of these ideas, but how about those expanding discs of coconut fiber? The following link says the fiber can be used alone, or in a hydroponic settup, or with perlite or potting soil, and that it makes clay soil more porous -

http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicsindoorgrowingsystem.htm (scroll down towards the bottom) (Do you have anything locally that could be mulched/shredded like a coconut?)

And - if you were to try growing any MGs hydroponically, you might just be a first. Somewhere I saw an old painting of an Alhambra garden with a rill of water going down the center and pots of flowers lined up along it - the paving and walls were paradoxically softened by the sky. Perhaps, some kind of material that would draw water by capillary action from the rill to the pots could be placed unobtrusively so as not to mar the aesthetics too much. Or, a fountain that could mist the area periodically - that might set back the spider mites, but might also be too wasteful of water.

I also seem to recall that amaryllus is farmed in Libya - wonder if they still do that. Also, Critterologist once started a few pots of amaryllis from seed and shared one with me - maybe she could give you some pointers on how to obtain and germinate seed.

Well, there's approximately 60 genera of morning glories ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convolvulaceae ), so after you subtract the genus Ipomoea, you still have approximately 59 genera left, many of which are native to desert or semi-arid habitats. I see you already grow a local native - I. arvensis - very beautiful to me with its silvery leaves. You should check out I. albivenia for its fragrance. It looks like you may have the opportunity to grow quite a few unusual ones I could not in my humid Maryland garden.

Regarding those fungus (sciarid) flies you mentioned, I would be surprised if they would be the same insect as our fungus gnats, but I still wonder if the remedies for ours might help yours -

The following thread covers the hydrogen peroxide solution treatment among others: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=1932886 . I soak plants from beneath - not the top - with this H202 solution. You don't want this to get on the leaves.

Another control for our fungus gnats is the same we use to control mosquitoes around here in standing water. It comes as granules or donuts and is a non-toxic, environmentally safe variety of Bacillus thuringiensis - http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=MosquitoDunks. The active agent in ours here near Baltimore is B. t. subsp. Israelensis, and I dissolve 1 Tablespoon in a gallon of water overnight before drenching pots over the surface - In winter I do this once a month.

Hope some of my ideas aren't too off the wall,

Karen

ps - how about a picture of Atticus & Sabrina?

Hi Martin, welcome to the Morning Glories forum!

Joseph

Hi Karen,

Thanks for sharing this info. As I said I am fine with the soil, you mustn't forget the cost factor because shipping is quite expensive. I normally send all seeds and things I need via Germany, my Mom collects it till we have a small parcel of 2 kg that costs 14 Euro to send to Morocco. I must look up the term hydroponic, hydro meaning water so what does "ponic" mean "fertilizer"?

To your former question about fragrant plants: It's of course quite breathtaking when the oranges are in flower we have a couple of citrus aurantium trees (in German we call them: bitter oranges...) in front of the house. Then there is of course jasmin and what I quite like are the four o'clocks they have great a smell and fill the backyard with a fantastic fragrance in the evening.

If you are are into that type of flowers you will have to try Daturas...There is a lady in Germany I could find you the link, she has such stunning types of Datura...And the smell of daturas is simply "out of this world" as my Canadian friend would say...

Anyway we are in the morning glory thread...

And hello to Josef

Do you think you could grow Convolvulus angustissimus from australia? It is from an arid region, and is quite lovely. I'd be glad to send some seeds either to you or to Germany.

Thanks Beth, I would be happy to try these. Please dmail me, so I can give you my address.

To go back to the top of the thread. Now today there was a couple of these funny hybrids flowering again. They always come on the same plants. As I said before, on one day I had 5 with the pattern on one plant, the other plant, which is in the same pot and which has the same weather conditions only produced blue flowers. I also noticed today that the mutation or what shall we call it are somewhat smaller in diameter. Normally, the flowers of one species don't vary in size. I will measure the diameter once I have two different ones flowering again on the same day...

Love to see those less commonly grown MGs, Beth - thank you.

Martin, here's the hydroponic thread. It's another one of those things I've been curious about but haven't got much into - http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/f/hydropon/all/ . If you click on the Communities tab at the top, and then on Forums in the box to the left, you'll get a page of all the forums on DG. They have one on Fragrant plants, too.

I also love to hear about everyone's gardens - can't imagine anything more romantic than orange blossoms and jasmine in Morroco. If you're growing morning glories there, then we're not really off topic, are we? To me, the context and/or habitat within which a plant is grown is just as interesting as the subject plant, itself. Therefore, when anyone shares an unusual MG as Beth just did, to me that's a vicarious way of traveling.

I'll give someone less windy than I am an opportunity to comment on the different characteristics of blossoms on your vine -

Hi Martin,
Welcome to MG paradise..lol..

Martin, could you post pictures of the other plant sharing the pot with Ipomoea tricolor 'Heavenly Blue'? Both a front and a sidewise shot would be helpful, since the sepals are often the identifying characteristic to which species a MG belongs. After we ID what's in your pot, we'll talk more about what's going on in there.

We will have to wait till tomorrow I have noticed hat both plants will produce flowers tomorrow...

Martin

Hi Gary, We know that Ipomoea tricolor and I. purpurea do not interbreed, so there has to be another explanation for the changes or differences in the flowers you are seeing. I thought this thread was a nice presentation: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/763299/

Another photo here. I have come to the conclusion that this is some kind of chemical reaction. However, from the colour point of view: How can blue change into pink unless there is already red in the blue and the blue is erased in some spots that I don't understand...I measured the diameter of heavenly blues (7.5 cm) and these bi-colour blues (6.5 cm), so there is a difference in diameter of 1 cm...However, occasionally there are just smaller heavenly blues, too. I am going to pop the question regarding chemical colour changes in a german discussion forum, perhaps there is some chemist who can explain this to me...


Martin

Hi gofast-Martin - You may not need to 'seek specialized German help'...> although the right questions can help to produce the right answers...knowledge is a reverse pyramid...and we are all always learning...

post with link on pigments and chemical pathways...anthocyanidin precursors,production and reduction pathways may be most relevant for you...
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=3449609
flavones
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=2836475
somewhat related posts...
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=2333632
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=1793705
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=1734952
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=2824250
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=1832467
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=1760447


The different colors seen are closely related to the color changes(!) that are seen in leaves during the Autumn color change display...i.e.,some colors are 'unmasked' at the same time that some coloring materials are undergoing chemical decomposition(!) and changing(!) to colors that may not be present at first but sometimes only as chemical precursors and/or as the various products of chemical decomposition....
the ratio of all factors and resultant products in the equation produces what you see...

TTY,...

Ron


P.S. - Some links on Ultra-violet(UV) and Infra-red(IR) photography
What do pollinators with ultra-violet vision see(?)...

Calystegia sepium and Convolvulus arvensis as viewed under ordinary light and as seen under Ultra-violet light
http://www.naturfotograf.com/UV_CALY_SEP.html
http://www.naturfotograf.com/UV_CONV_ARV.html
http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00HtIS
patterns on flowers are powerful visual signal to chemical identity for those with ultra-violet vision
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/11/011120044731.htm


This message was edited Aug 27, 2007 7:49 AM

Very INTERESTING indeed. Well, Ron, thanks for all the information you've provided, the Germans have kept a low profile so far...they normally seem to know it all...

I think I also need to read up on autumn colour changes...haven't completely understood that yet...

I had to add this as another example of colour change for flying saucers and heavenly blue. I thought this was extraterrestrial...

Many of my morning blue blooms change to purple in the afternoon. It seems to happen with nils, indica, and heavenly blue.

Kewl colors...if the reddish-pink on the HB is mainly happening to only one plant >save the seeds...

Gourd in New Mexico is experiencing a phenomenon where she gets alot of reverse tubes from regular nils...we've postulated that it may be some 'mutagen' in her water...

Maybe you have something there that causes the reddish-pink pigmentation to be prominent...some rare earth mineral from the Atlas Mountains(?!)...

TTY,...

Ron

gofast - WOW! That is really a show stopper! Awesome blooms!
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=3914400

Beth, it's not that they change colour during the day, that's the way they open. It may well have to do with temperature changes in the environment, but then I have no explanation why this occurs only on some plants. My plants are all getting the same amount of water...

It's probably the weather, mine are also doing that. We did have our water tested for anything unusal incase it was harmful to us. And, it turned out alright.


edited to add: i've amended my address, we had a severe problem on one of the Forums with a potential stalker.. it has NOTHING to do with anyone here, so don't even go there, I can already hear the phycos/paranoids thinking outloud.






This message was edited Sep 5, 2007 4:15 PM