Well, I was out running around yesterday and I stopped at the pet store and got a critter keeper thing for my cats. At first I had the eggs in them, but today I put the eggs in a cleaned out butter container (we keep them around, they're useful to hold stuff). They have to stay there for a few days because I put the Polydamas cats in the critter keeper for timeout. They kept chewing through the pipevine leaves and there were all these leaves at the bottom of the bf house. So I told them they had to finish eating their food and not waste anything. I don't have an unlimited supply here!
In good news, Dad was talking to one of the guys on his mail route that I trade plants with (the guy works for a landscaping company). He has a pipevine and Dad said it was really big so if I get desperate I won't have to steal from the botanical gardens (not that I would ever do that, lol)! Dad mentioned I was raising the bfs and his customer said, "You mean those worms that eat it up?" Dad said, "Now, now...you have to be politically correct - they're not worms they're caterpillars", and he said the guy bust a gut laughing. But Dad said the pipevine looked pretty chewed up so I think he just lets them do their thing.
I'll keep everyone updated on the ZLWs. Right now they're just eggs waiting to hatch. I'm just glad I got them right after they were laid so I know nothing could have harmed them.
Melanie
DAILY BUTTERFLIES Page 14
I'm lurking and loving the daily BF threads! Beautiful photos, too!
You all are so gifted to have so many butterfly babies to raise and release! And gifted photographers, too!
We have a lot of butterflies this summer because of all the new plants, but we haven't started raising them--maybe next year I'll have something to post!
Ok, I went out and brought the Polydamas cats in. I know there's still one small one on there, but I brought the big ones in so they would eat their food and I could watch them while I sit here. Here's what the critter keeper looks like. I put bamboo sticks in there that I normally use to stake my plants. I didn't want to take sticks from the yard because I thought they might have unseen predators on them.
Here's my new fatty. Yes, those are more eggs behind him. Sigh...
thank you so much for the welcome Deb!!
i will surely be busy getting ready for next year...as far as seeds..i do have some but i am not sure they are of the type anyone wants...i will learn though...and i will keep my eyes peeled for when they want to do the trade... can anyone give me any info on the spice bush?...i have heard about it but would like more info....such as...will it grow here?...i think im zone 5.....is it really as nice smelling as they say?...does it have seeds?....thanks
hummingbird
The Spicebush does smell good, especially if leaves are torn, crushed or munched on. Some people actually use the leaves for food or teas, I've heard. It's usually found in areas with moist relatively deep soil. I wouldn't have gotten any if I hadn't found a regional variety of it west of us at a native nursery. That way I could believe it would survive in my not-so-friendly-to-plants place. I have alkaline very thin dry thin soil and it stays pretty hot for many months of the year. However, I did put it in a raised bed with topsoil and keep it watered on a regular basis when rain doesn't come along often enough...and it's shaded a bit by tree branches. Spicebush does make seeds sometimes but I don't have any. I want to experiment with cuttings one of these days. I don't know if it would grow well where you are...it's probably worth a try. I had my doubts about it doing okay here but it seems to be fine. If you are thinking of using it as a host plant, the question is whether the butterfly comes to your area. And if it is there, there should be host plants growing somewhere in the area. I try to use native plants as much as I can...that's just my way
Karen~ This thread got so busy that I actually missed something...I will pack up some cuttings of Duranta right away and send them to you. One of mine is growing all over the place, and I need to shape it up some. When I do that with a plant I love, I just hate to throw away the cuttings. They do take very well to rooting.
Hi Judy!
Nice to see ya. I was thinking about you today. Was it you that said something about a movie called The Theory of Everything? I had a gift card to a book and video store my brother had given us for Christmas. Today Jackie and I were shopping for school clothes and we went by that store to browse their videos and use the card. I had forgotten all about wanting to find the movie....when it jumped out at me, LOL! I'm so glad I bought it. What a beautiful picture! You're right the butterfly sequences were short, but it really perfected the whole story. The boys really enjoyed it. Good call! Thx for mentioning it!
Hummingbird~
The Spicebush just might grow in Oregon, but the SBST butterflies which use it as larval host stay on the east side of the US. It is a lovely plant like Linda said and will adapt. It is a fairly tender perennial here in North Texas. There are several different cultivars of Lindera. You can browse through the PlantFiles here and see if any of them do well there in OR, > http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/adv_search.php?searcher%5Bcommon%5D=spicebush&searcher%5Bfamily%5D=&searcher%5Bgenus%5D=&searcher%5Bspecies%5D=&searcher%5Bcultivar%5D=&searcher%5Bhybridizer%5D=&search_prefs%5Bblank_cultivar%5D=&search_prefs%5Bsort_by%5D=rating&images_prefs=both&Search=Search
Good news is the list for Oregon butterflies is amazing, see this link real quick>
http://www.butterfliesandmoths.org/map?ds=38&_dcs=1
You get so many beautiful butterflies there that us here in the south and east can only see in pictures. The way to start planning is from your state's list in that link. Click on the butterfly name and it will take you to the page with pics and info, including caterpillar hosts. We use that site a lot here for a general online reference.
You can do a species search too, by typing in a butterfly, and it shows a map of their distribution in North America.
:-D
This message was edited Aug 21, 2007 10:00 AM
Oh and you don't have to worry about planting the right host plant and not having cats to raise, as long as they are known to come to that area. It's taken me several years to get Sulphurs to come by and lay eggs, but I knew they came/lived here and kept planting the Cassias. I finally got them this year!
The best way to know what host plants to buy is to get good 'tried and true' nectar plants and watch who comes to them. Take their pics and get good IDs. Then when you buy the larval host you will definatly get the cats. The process is timely but very rewarding. This forum will have them eating out of your hands by this time next year. Ask anyone in here, This time last year Deborah, (cordeledawg).. was planning, Today she is already in a full swing fly zone, LOL.
:-)
wow...thank you so much!...i will go there right now...is there a way to save all these awesome links in one central area???..there are so many of them i am afraid that they will get lost from me as this thread gets longer and longer or we start a new one
You can make yourself a links page in a Word Document, that you can copy them back from to enter in the browser field for the url....Or you can save them to your browser's 'favorites' as you view them.
:-)
i do know that i get several butterfly visits so i am excited about all this...and i feel blessed that oregon gets so many....
i did take pics of a swallowtail this year on my butterfly bush.....
i also have a butterfly weed growing but it is too new to have flowers....
morning glories as well.. (saw a hummingbird into those today) ...
a few other flowers i dont think they really pay much attention to....but hey..as soon as i get in the know...they are going to have whatever they want out there...
uh you mentioned buy larval host.....theres a place to buy them?
man i am soooo green
lol
ok...so in addition to learning new stuff on butterflies i will be saving favorite links...i was already a busy person....now i really am....lol
aw but i love keeping busy...lots of hobbies!!! :)
When we figure out which ones you need, then we will find out where. Only the organic nurseries will carry larval (or caterpillar) host plants. You can see if there are any within driving distance, but I have purchased many of mine online. I have traded here at DG for everything else. Pretty amazing how it all comes together!
To save to favorites is very easy and quick.... If you like the link, just take your cursor up to the word "favorites" in the top of your page here, and click on it.. (I'm using Internet Exploder and mine has: *File Edit View Favorites Tools Help*
at the top.) Which browser do you use?
right on....well i could spend all night here reading and asking questions but alas i cant....its that get some sleep/working thing....so i will ttyl
hummingbird
i use internet explorer as well
ah yes...rather than save the link...just go to the page and save the page site instead...gotcha...will do...man my list i going to be huge.....i want to say you people are very nice...thank you !
good night for now
what online site do you use for host plants?
I just checked my area and do get the spicebush swallowtail - so might try a spicebush. thanks
Debilu~ We use many different ones. If you look at the bottom of your home pagethere is a link to Garden.com, (a branch of DG). When you click on 'local' a few of your local nurseries might pop up. Call those first to see if you can get them locally... and always check with WatchDog on DG for ratings, that's what WD is for.
Then there is a great place I purchased my Spicebushes (Lindera benzoin) from.. It's http://nearlynativenursery.com Jim & Debi are owners, real special people, excellent service, good prices. It's about $17 to ship, so get a few plants to make it worth the shipping charge.
Also, if you want the SB plants to have firtle seed, etc., you need to buy a few SBs bc they are sexed, requiring both male and female plants to pollinate. If you only want one for a host plant only, it should do alright. They carry a lot of larval host plants at nnn.
Another place is http://butterfliesetc.com/hostplants.php very good prices too, and a lot of good info on their site.
One more is http://easywildflowers.com/
Find what you need and email John. He will send your order out fast, and bill you when he sends it. Very trusting guy, great plants too! Most people want the money first, lol. Not John.
Let me know how it works out for ya!
:-D my phone # is 817.788.5625 for anyone here who needs help or would like to discuss vocally.
Good to give those links. And check around to see if there are butterfly organizations/clubs/sites operating somewhere nearby also. I don't have that much close enough but some do. There is, however, a nearby native plant society and a nature center and a native nursery that is helpful to me. It's good to get local input if possible. Once you know what butterflies you want to concentrate on first, get a list of host plants and nectar plants. For example the spicebush swallowtail in my book says it uses sassafras, spicebush, red bay and swamp bay for host plants. One thing I've noticed is that use of host plants varies by location, which is why I stress location. In a certain location the butterfly may prefer one certain host plant and in another state may prefer another. Some butterfly species especially want quantity of plants, too. For those, the more host plants, the more likely they'll stop by and lay eggs. Seems like my place is now "on the map" for some that would otherwise pass by without stopping because of host plants.
Well said Linda! I agree, local is best!
thanks all for your help. I'll check out the links.
Here's another good vendor for host plants that I've purchased from with good results.
http://www.mailordernatives.com/servlet/Categories?category=Trees+%26+Shrubs&searchpath=1965&start=57&total=111
well girls i have compiled a list of supplies i need to get started..i even went out two days in a row to check my butterfly bush to see if there were eggs or anything...course it will be hard for me to spot them until i get a trained eye...but just the same i am starting at least...
my next step is to plan my plants...i have a few that will be suitable but there are some essential ones i feel i will need and here is where my problem is going to be...obviously it is going to take some time for me to have substantial enough plants to support their needs...so i had better concetrate on the plant issue...too late to plant this year i am sure...(from seed anyway)...
this part is going to take further research because i will want to know which ones survive my winters...which ones are perrenials..vs annuals...and which ones i want for any particular bf....swallowtails for sure because they are here often...monarchs because i want to encourage them here more...have seen them so i know they are here
ok...yes i am long winded...lol sorry
hummingbird
I think you are on the right track, hum. : ) Just start adding some host plants for your area, and of course the nectar plants, and they will come.
~Lucy
Right Lucy!
Hummingbird~ Thats kinda how I expanded. Planting Milkweed, and all the hosts for Swallowtails in my area. Zeroing in will help you a lot in focussing. What kind of Butterfly Bush do you have?
:D
Is this a black swallowtail? (female). It looks so much different than the others I have seen and she doesnt have all the dots in a line. And where is here long tail things?
chris
This message was edited Aug 22, 2007 8:51 AM
hummingbird~
I made a list for you that focusses on Swallowtails and Monarchs. The Nectar plants are important to draw males and females of these species. The females go where the males go. Males are often very good at locating nectar plants too, but they usually don't touch them unless they have blooms with nectar. Still the males will gather where hosts are planted to wait and patrol for females. The males will leave their scent which will make your yard that much more irresistable to the females. Here is the short list, lol.
NECTAR PLANTS
California buckeye
yerba santa,
wallflower.
Milkweed (Asclepias spp. native to Oregon & A.curassavica you can sow after last frost)
Dogbane
Liatris
Goldenrod
Abelia'
Zinnia
Bergamot
Lilac
Viper's bugloss
Common azaleas
Phlox
Teasel
Azaleas
Dame's-rocket
Lantana
Petunias
Verbenas
Lupines
Yellow Star Thistle
Yerba Santa
Brodiaeas
Gilias
HOST PLANTS:
Pipevines> Aristolochia californica, A. serpentaria (for Pipevine ST)
Arctic wormwood & Wild Tarragon (for Old World ST)
Parsley of the Apiaceae spp. & Ruta Graveolens (for Indra & Anise ST)
Milkweed (Asclepias spp. native to Oregon) (for Monarchs)
TREE HOSTS:
Aspen Populus spp., Willows Salix spp., Wild Cherry Prunus spp., and Ash of Fraxinus spp. (for Western Tiger ST)
Cherry Prunus emarginata, Coffee-berry Rhamnus californica, and Ash Fraxinus spp. (for Pale ST)
Ash (Fraxinus spp.), hop tree (Ptelea spp.), and chokecherry (Prunus spp.). (for Two-tailed Tiger ST)
((Forest Farms http://www.forestfarm.com/ in Oregon is an excellent source for the Host Trees & Nectar Shrubs. Call them and ask if you need to plant them in fall or spring. They have a great photo gallery in their online catalog, and have the highest DG Watch Dog rating. Being in Oregon is an extra plus+ ))
See if you can make a hard copy of this list to carry with you and make calls. See if anyone in the Oregon Forum on DG has any seeds for the nectar plants on this list. They would be gleaning the seeds right about now, and it would be a good time to send your SASBEs to get the seeds to keep in your fridge until last frost spring '08.
Deb
This message was edited Aug 22, 2007 7:59 AM
Chris~ Thats a gorgeous shot of the Red Spotted Purple.. Way to Go!!!!
:-D
Wow!! didnt think I had any other hosts for anything. Going to check in the files. Yahoo!!!
Chris~ The RSP use certain trees/shrubs as their host .. Chances are there are lots of these trees in your area>
Caterpillar hosts: Leaves of many species of trees and shrubs including wild cherry (Prunus), aspen, poplar, cottonwood (Populus), oaks (Quercus), hawthorn (Crataegus), deerberry (Vaccinium stamineum), birch (Betula), willows (Salix), basswood (Tilia), and shadbush (Amelanchier).
I love those! Never had any here, though they are said to be in this area.
Deb
I have many oaks, some birch and what I think is wild cherry.
After I looked it up in the files, I went outside to look around. Then I remembered...about 5 years ago (before I was interested in birds & butterfly) there was a huge beautiful tree right over where we put in a small pond. It would drop so many of these tiny red fruits ( a little larger than a pea) all over the place. They had pits in them. If they landed on your clothes they would stain it purple/red. There were so many pits in the pond that we cut the tree down. When we piled it up, the birds went crazy in the brush pile, I guess looking for the fruit. I felt so bad.
There are now many seedlings, some that are about 4-5'. I have left many of them because they grew where the stains & pits would not matter.
When I was outside looking around at the trees, there was a small cat on a 4' tree that I think is one of the wild cherry. I brought the cat in, with his branch. He is in his own cage, but is very small. I will take a picture in a few days when he is bigger, then I will need to know what he pupates on...or in the soil.
Thanks for the info Deb.
chris
Oh Chris! That sounds exciting to have a possible new butterfly cat to raise. Please keep us posted!
Alrighty Chris! Very good find!! (I would love to have a seedling of the tree if you have any extra.) The cat will most likely be a Red Spotted Purple, or a Tiger ST.
The RSP has weird looking horns on it, and looks a bit like a bird dropping. TST also will look a bit like a bird dropping in the first instars, but no horns. The eye spots wil become very animated looking on TST. Like little beady eyes on a toy character. The horns on RSP will be more prominent (like little antlers), as it gets bigger.
We have some real good pics among members here at DG to help with IDing.
You are doing so well, and very blessed to have all those plants right there growing naturally. In winter many birds will patrol for fruit on trees. A primary customer you would get are Cedar Waxwings. They are so beautiful!! After all the butterflies have hibernated or migrated the winter birds come to keep you company. The winter birds are so wonderful. The Cedar WW is unique in that it is one of few birds that completely digest the fruit, seed and all. They then plant them all over the countryside... People in Bird Watching forum have some wonderful pics of the CWWs and al lots of other amazing birds.
Someone near me has a big cherry tree, and in winter the CWWs travel in a lovely sheet across the sky, landing in various trees to check for fruit. I could almost set my watch by their passing by and landing in my fruitless trees, morning and evening. Their sound is noticable from a mile away, (they can hear each other even farther away). It's a very long high pitch note especially when all of them are singing at the same time. The note pitch is identical in every one, so even though the singing of each is a short note, it sounds like one long note. When I first heard the sound I thought a dog was whining, but then I realized the sound was coming from above, lol. (I thought, "a dog in the tree, nawww! And "I know dogs can't fly", ROFL!!) That sound helps them stay together so an individual will not get lost from the flock.
Look for them this fall and winter, they are just breathtaking!
Here is a pic of CWW by Charles Lentz "linthicum" here at DG.
http://www.pbase.com/linthicum/image/53341551
Talk about some great pictures! He has some of butterflies and cats too. Here is his whole pbase site: http://www.pbase.com/linthicum
:-D
That's really great, Chris! There's some nice butterflies that use the wild cherry trees, so hope you have one of them. Can't wait to see it! Oh, here's a pic of one of my Spicebush cats...I take off the screen cages and sleeves to check them. 3 have pupated already, so everything is going well. Except I don't know if there will be enough foliage left for the cats. Two of the plants are have practically no leaves left, so I hope the other one is enough. Some of the cats are fairly small. Those mama butterflies really lay too many eggs sometimes!
This message was edited Aug 22, 2007 12:52 PM
Oh Linda!! How sweet!! I just love those, and still have two fairly leafy bushes for them, send them this way...LOL! How big are the remaining cats? Big enough to pupate, I hope. Wonder if one of your local stores has any Lindera. Hard to get a super bushy one in the mail, but if you dole out sparingly they could eat light for a few days until it arrived. Do you have any pics of the chrysalids?
Chris~ Here is one of Linda's pics of a RSP cat> http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=3766363
.. She had such good ones!
Deb
Oh Deb, those pictures are awesome! I really hope I get those cedar waxwings, they are beautiful. I will keep an ear out for the whining dog up in the tree. LOL
After looking at Lindas pic of RSP, sadly it is not it. I will have to look for those very hard, they have an amazing camofl....
Deb, I will send seeds for sure in fall.
Cordele/deb, it is very exciting to find new ones. All chrysallis are eclosed and flying around my yard.
I now have cats.. 3 sulphur, 4 gulf fritillary, about 25 monarch and the new unknown.
Have any of your Monarchs eclosed yet?
Linda, that spicebush cat is soooooo cute, looks like I need another host plant. :)
Pic of unknown cat from cherry tree.
This message was edited Aug 22, 2007 5:06 PM
Wow, everyone is really busy. My zebra longwings decided to hatch while I was at work today. (Laid on the 19th, hatched on the 22nd, FYI) I had them in the bf house, but I didn't want any cats crawling on the eggs, so I set them in an empty butter tub and placed a few passion leaves in there. Well, today I came home and I saw the empty egg cases. I saw a couple of cats - then I realized the rest had climbed up to the rim of the dish and were hanging out around the edge, They are sooo tiny. I took a mechanical pencil and used that to move them back down to the leaves. Right now they're hanging out, some moving around more than others. I know they want to climb, but I don't want them to starve if they move too far away from the food. I'd share pics, but I don't have a microscope on my camera!
As for the Polydamas...I have four cats in the critter keeper. One is so fat he must become a butterfly soon - I don't know how he'd be able to fly as chubby as he is! I also discovered that the reason I had pipevine leaves at the bottom of the bf house is that apparently they really like to chew the stems. I plucked off some leaves to put in the cage, and I've been watching them eat the stems - it's really weird. At least with them in the cage, my vines can recover a little. I still have a group of Polydamas eggs I'm watching; they should hatch soon.
By the way, these guys poop a lot! I couldn't believe how much in just one day. I was cleaning the cage and throwing out dead leaves when I panicked because I had forgotten about the leaf with the eggs on it! Luckily, it was still in the cage. They look like they'll hatch soon. In case you're keeping track, I have two sets of Polydamas eggs - one in the cage, one in the bf house. At least I won't have to chase them like the ZLWs; Polydamas are nice and all stay together on one leaf. Very organized, those bfs!
Melanie
Hey Chris and all , None of my Monarchs have eclosed yet. I only have two in crystalises. I had seven that I lost. I now feel that I was the culprit. I remember having them in too big of a cage and when they would wander off, I'd open up the cage and pick them up to put them back on the milkweed. It just dawned on me that they must have been trying to pupate or molt since all seven died with just a hood on. I've got to quit playing with them and leave them alone. Especially touching them when they are still; I keep telling myself. They will die if you pick them up at that stage. I've now finished making my copy-cat (pun) "quick and easy cages" from gladware containers so that I can only keep a few in each. I think I can manage that better.
I did sit all of these little cages inside my huge castle outside though. That way, there won't be a drastic temperature change from taking them from the house to the outside patio.
I have three EBST cats still eating the milkweed. Tons ( maybe a little less) of EBST crystalis still to eclose. I've successfully released 22 now.
Melanie, you've got butterflies that I've only seen pictures of. It's so interesting to hear about bfs I can only dream about. Polydamas, Giant ST and Zebras haven't been visiting me that I know about.