This has been a really informative thread. I had bee using some tulle I had gotten but now I see that my hole s stil aren't tiny enough.
I think the ide a of carryign aroudn a container with you is great. I have lost lot s of cats just from tryign to get back to the trailer and get something. it so hard to try and keep a good balanc e of everything when you have so many critters your all tryign to increas e the population of.
Quick & Easy Cat Cage
Deb, these tutorials are fantastic. I can't believe how much those little dudes can eat!!!
Okay, I have my cat cage...almost. One question. And I already know the answer, I just want to be positive. On the cage itself, you don't glue the fabric to the rim of the top (where it was cut out)? I wondered why not. So you have essentially 3 loose pieces: the rim of the top, a piece of fabric, and a bottom. I thought it would be easier to have only 2 loose pieces -- a lid and a bottom. The lid being comprised of a plastic rim with a fabric insert which was glued to the rim.
Just wanted to make sure. It's raining but I am going out to look. Uh, I forget what I'm looking for -- is it eggs or cats? Either or both?
LOL! You'd think I'd be a little sharper on this whole thing, wouldn't you? I'm being more cautious than normal because so many lives are at stake!
Suzy
Update: I went outside, but no eggs or cats. You guys make it sound like you just go out and get them (or in Deb's case, they come to you looking for a safe haven LOL) but there was nothing out there. I thought for sure I'd have eggs from the ETS that were flying around yesterday.
But I am ready with 2 cat cages and 2 in the wings, pun intended. My fabric might have been too thick or something because the top buckled and wouldn't close over the bottom, so I glued the fabric to the top on that one which solved the problem, and then I and cut the top for the 2nd cage with a wider margin and that seemed to work better.
My Ziploc containers (the big ones) were 2/$2.98, so no deals on them in Indiana, but still cheaper than just the freight on an order from monarchslive.
Suzy
I glued my tule on the lids also. Debnes, is there a reason you are doing it that way? Let me know if I need to rethink my method. Don't want to endanger my babies.
Hi Sheila,
It is quicker and easier not to have to glue, and the fabric I have is thin enough to do it that way. It's not tulle, I found the holes in that were too big. Those flies can wriggle through the square holes. What I have is a very think white knit fabric I bought at Hobby Lobby. Its kind of like lingere' fabric, real slinky, tight knit, and thin.
:-Deb
Hmmm, sound like a smart idea. Waiting for others with experience.
Thanks for explaining Deb. Since I keep my tubs inside by a window I think the tule I have glued will work then. But if I buy more tubs, I will definately consider the tighter weave. Since I rarely wear hose, don't have any to try out there. Let us know how they work if someone does.
I have release several bfs this week, but the most rewarding was a GST that allowed me to pick it up and take about 6 pics before it decided to fly away.
Since I have not had a successful release yet, please tell me if I should offer the butterfly (s) a drink of gatorade in a cotton ball before being released. I waiting on 4 to eclose and want to be prepared.
Sheila... excellent photo!
Cordeledawg... I'm sure others will chime in on this as well, but last year when I had two monarchs to eclose on a day that we had horrible T-storms for the entire day, I didn't release them until the day after when the weather had improved. I was worried about them needing nourishment... so I tried a variety of things to try to get them to drink (I used hummingbird food that was mixed up). I never, not once, saw them take up any nectar. Then I released them as planned the next day, and they seemed fine. I later read that they can go on their energy stores from the chrysalis for 24 hours, before needing to feed.
See what others may offer in the way of advice (and I'll be watching too!) Deb and Donna, and many others have raised and released a ton more butterflies than I have, and have way more experience.
Karen
Yes Karen, That's right.. They can go quite a while with their 'stores' from food they ate as a cat.
So Deborah, don't worry bout feeding them. They will be fine.
Pamsue, Nylon hose will work alright, but they do run pretty easily, especially when they are cut.
I found abother great fabric that works well.. You gals might remember Chiffon. The thin white see through fabric used for wedding gowns etc. It does ravel some, but not really enough to be a bother. I really like how its working.
VA_Rose, (Karen)~
I tried putting a rod into the cage for the Monarch cats to pupate on, and guess what?? They pupated everywhere except the rod, LOL.. (wise guys). So when they had all hardened a day, I set this cage up to hang them with unflavored dento tape.
Close up~ one of the sparkly chrysalids>
One of the Black Swallowtails eclosed this morning, and was able to climb all around in th 1 qt. container and hang really well to blow out and dry his wings.
I am confused, but what else is new.
What is he hanging on to? I thought the mesh was on the "front door", and the container is on its side.
Can he hang on the the slick plastic sides?
chris
Great shot Sheila!! Sorry I missed it when you first posted. How awesome is that! What beautiful butterfly your GST is!!
Wow!
Deb... how funny is that? Guess they didn't WANT the stick! How do you tie the floss to the top of the chrysalis? Dowsn't look like there is enough there on top to tie to...
Karen
Thanks Karen and Deb, I was clicking away with one hand. I kept trying to turn him around to get the top side up close, but once it had an eye on me, it wouldn't let me. I would turn my hand and it would crawl to where it could see me. LOL! This is when I first took it out.
So someone a male or female?
Love the string of emerals you have Deb!!! You know, I haven't seen a Monarch yet, but then I don't get too many until my Blue Mist starts to bloom. I have Milkweed and Aphids though! LOL!
Glad you are getting them and having success with them.
Chris~ The BST is hanging from his own chrysalis that he attached to the top side of the container wile it was on it's side. It is a bit blurry, so I can see how it could be confussing, (sorry). I was surprised too, but the plastic gladware is made from is not too slick for the butterflly to grip. When he closed into his chrysalis I removed the foam block, remaining plant, and wiped it clean... then I sealed it back up until today. If I had opened the container to get a pic, I would just be telling about it, as he flew away very quick.
Sheila, I still can't tell te males from females by appearance either. The only way I have had to know that has been GSTs that fly through or nectar, and those that oviposit. If you come onto anything please let me know.
LOL Karen, These guys crack me up too. They didn't like my stick, sheesh!! Another good thing I have found about this container system is that the silk will easily peel away from all the surfaces, leaving you plenty of that to tie with. Monarchs in particular have a nice stem-like cremaster anyway. They are probably the easiest of all to tie up like this. Here is a pretty good pic of the last one just after making the chrysalis. It is still very soft and lumpy, but you can see the cremaster very well.
:-)
Thanks... I remember that. I still wasn't sure you had enough room there to tie the string around. I've never had to move a chrysalis before, from it's original position.
Deb, your posts have been soooo helpful. And thank you for the pictures! Right now I have three little cats hanging in the J position--two are fine where they are, but I'll have to move the third after it forms the chrysalis & hardens for 48 hours. I've never done that before, so I'm a little nervous! (It's hanging on the underside of a leaf that will likely wilt long before the butterfly is ready to come out.)
Also, there is a fourth in that mesh cage, but I suspect he's not going to make it. He was eating yesterday, but on three occasions I saw a dark green drop drip from near his head, like he had a tummy ache and couldn't keep his milkweed down. He's just clinging to a branch, still, when he should be wandering around looking for a place to form the "J." Has this happened to anyone else? What do you think is wrong with him? I've been cleaning the frass and newly-cut milkweed diligently. Beyond the green leakage, he looks very healthy! I'll give him another day or two, and then I'll probably isolate him, just in case what he has may infect the chrysalis gang. (If that's possible.)
I have another 4 in a different container that just entered the 5th instar. High hopes for them, too! :-)
I don't know either, Junebug, but I think maybe they do release their "gut" just before changing into a crystalis. This leakage could be what you saw .
Unfortunately, more often than not, a cat throwing up is not a good sign.
I am going to start a new thread about this as I would like to hear of other folks experience with this as well:
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/750365/
Deb,
I want to provide some perches for my cats (ones I don't have yet, but will have.)
I have some ideas I wanted to run past you for materials and ways to hang them....first off I can use one of three materials -- clean wooded shish kabob holders, sticks form the garden (green or brown) or metal U-shaped marker holders.
I'm not clear of if they hang from a horizontal thing or a vertical thing, or I could always glue them at an angle on the ziploc boxes I bought, but am unclear if they need 360° access, or if they just use the front. I thought I could drill little holes in the cage and then glue the stick or whatever right to it so it is there all the time. Is this a bad idea?
You guys all seem to know #1 what each species needs and #2 how to do it fast so you're ready when you find the cats. I don't know any of it and feel like I need to plan ahead.
Thanks for any help & insight,
Suzy
Suzy ................
OT .......... but lolol if this was posted in a cat forum ;-))
Suzy - Depending on the species of cat will determine whether they like vertical or horizontal places to pupate. (Monarchs like to hang off of something horizontal whereas Black Swallowtails like to make their comma on the side of something that is vertical.) Though I must honestly warn you ...... even if you come up with an elaborate hanging area, they may still just use the top or side of your cage! LOL! I've put in sticks, plants, etc. and still found them pupating on the side of the pot (that the plant is in) or climbing to the very top of the cage and pupating there. The worst place of course is if they pupate on a leaf on their host plant. But in the wild, that is exactly what they do! :-)
Junebug, You have the new mommy jitters, lol. I get those too. Just let it be for now, maybe its alright. My # 4 Monarch cat was a straggler.. It parked several times for a bit. Each time I thought it would make it's chrysalis, but didn't finally after waiting all day it made a J at about 6PM. When I went out at sunup it looked like the pic in Post #3757638.
I moved all of them to a single container with the skewer trough, and taped on the ends. Since it will be 10 days, I like to keep them organized and compact so I can keep better track of them. It is the easiest thing to do now moving a chrysalis. Even if they attach to a leaf, they silk it down so good the leaf stays stiff and attached to the stem.
I have seen documentaries where they do this with all their butterflies. They have a huge butterfly house in sections where cat eggs are laid, the cats feed and then each one is found and moved to the long bars. So mine is a mini system of that.
Suzy, Some people use those metal wire candle holders in large cages, which might work. I know frits like to use my trellises. In one of these plastic box cages it doesnt matter where they pupate it is really easy to peel all the silk and the whole cremaster in tact.. You will see when you've done it one time. It is why I had to start this thread. I have done it all the wrong ways, and now, solving at least a half dozen problems, it turns out to be so incredibly easy. It was worth a shout out.
And Becky is right, depends on the butterfly, as she said BST make theirs from a comma position.. I will add ALL Swallowtails pupate in this manner. (Most other bf's hang similar to Monarchs and Frits from a single cremaster.)
Some STs in each species will oddly attach their tail and halter to the top, but generally it is on the side of something. They can be hung like the Monarchs by the tail end by twisting the silk on the end, and tieing with dental tape. When they have hardened at least 2 days they can even be laid in the bottom of a ventilated container on a dry paper towel. They eclose just fine from there and climb up to dry beautifully.
Waves @ scooterbug o/~ oO"Hi!"
:-Deb
Great news! The straggler has crawled to the top of the cage and is busily silkin' up the joint.
This is so exciting!
Also, inspired by the metal candle holder for pupation location, I put my 4-bottle wine rack (made of the same type of gently curving, powder-coated metal) in with the remaining 4 monarch cats. I hope they use it! I'll have to post a picture if they do.
I am so excited for you! Ready to see more pictures too.
OMG - I am in awe. This was such a wealth of information! Thank you so much.
I moved a LOT of MW in the BF cage the other day that had a ton of monarch babies only to discover an assasin bug in there the next day (and aphids). I removed everything, carefully got rid of the aphids and inspected for any other predator. Moved them back in, found a spider in there the next day. I can only count 4 cats today. I'm so bummed.
To top that off, I have a lot of MW planted, saw a ton of baby monarchs last week, had planned to move the leaves into the BF cage (until the assasin bug/spider incident), went out today, saw a paper wasp right around the milkweed, took my shoe off and swatted it and I released an army! A huge nest in my Nearly Wild roses and they all came to attack me. I thought it was rather unusual seeing them make a nest so low. From my experience, they usually nest higher. I ran so fast! I had to kill the nest, and probably killed my rose. Went back to check on the cats and there's not a single one there. I wanted to cry. I was really lucky that I didn't get stung. I was stung a month ago at the recycling bin and had a severe reaction. Amazing that I made it out today without being hurt. But now I know what happened to my cats.
Deb - you're great! I'm going to send you an envelope so I can see that fabric.
Great Kristi! I have a couple different kinds of fabric I will put in there. Man, What a bummer about all the preditors, thats why I run my fingers along each leaf before I cage any cats with the plant. When I do cuttings of MW, I run it under cold water in the kitchen sink to remove aphids spiders, etc. Yikes paper wasps! I was stung right under my left eye for just deadheading my Moonvine one time, so I know what it's like to be swarmed, Ouchie!! Once all the cats are safely in a cage with thoroughly inspected host plant, they are so safe. I hope you will be getting more numbers soon!
Yaay! Junebug! Like Deborah, I am very excited for you too! Relieved that theMonarch was alright... Hoping the rest follow suit only using the wine rack thingy. Show us as soon as things come together. We'll wait to see. :-)
You guys are cookin' now!
:-Deb
I can relate to the predators lurking on host plants. I brought in a potted parsley plant just to secure BST eggs on that were laid on the same day I collected them. I placed the pot of parsley inside a cage and checked on it 4 or 5 days later. A tiny tiny tiny spider had webbed a newly hatched BST and it was just dangling in the web. I was sick! I found the itsy-bitsy spider and now he's history! Luckily he missed 6 other 1st instars (2nd?) which I promptly removed until I could completely check out the pot plant. I ran hot tap water through the pot then ran soapy water, followed by hot tap again. It didn't hurt the parsley at all. Once I was satisfied no other buggers were residing in the pot, I covered the dirt area with paper towels and now feel confident to use it inside the cage with the cats.
Like you, Deb, I'm washing my sprigs of parsley that I use in the other cages before I put them in the foam stand and cage for older cats. I gather these sprigs from plants growing in my garden.
It hasn't failed yet, that I find eggs on these sprigs when I bring them in to wash. I feel like Old Mother Hubbard! I've got probably 50+ cats and eggs now.
AND the 4 crystalis from June 28 still haven't eclosed. What's up with that....Please tell me, anyone want to take a guess as to why they haven't emerged?
Deborah
C-Dawg,
Please, please tell me where to look for eggs on parsely (and fennel, too, if you know) I have the ESTs flying around, but I can't see anything when I examine the parsley leaves! What am I even looking for?
Suzy
Suzy, they are tiny white to yellowish perfectly round teensy beads. They're no bigger than a pin head. Can be on the front or the back of the leaf and can be singular or multiple eggs per leaf. .
Thanks!
You know how a chicken egg from the refrigerator has a big yellow yolk surrounded by clear jelly-like fluid? Do cat eggs have the jelly-like fluid around the eggs? Or are they "dry"?
Suzy
I dug around for some of my old BST egg pics, and I found one of Deborahs first, lol!
http://pics.davesgarden.com/pics/Cordeledawg_1181228540_388.jpg
Suzy~ See how tiny the white tips on the curly parsley is? The eggs are a tad bit bigger than those and perfectly round.. Like Deborah said, They can be white-yellow in color.
:-Deb
OMG! I have dozens of parsley plants -- I could never find anything that small -- like the needles in the haystack. Did you see my hornworm (different thread)? The thing is 4" big and I just saw it today for the first time, despite the tomato being eaten to the nubs!
Suzy
But once you find one Suzy, you will know what to look for and be able to spot themeasier. You just have to get down on your knees to find them! LOL! They are a bit easier to spot on Rue than they are on Parsley. You can see the color variation in this pic. The darker color was more than likely deposited earlier.
Deb, great shot on the Parsley, I haven't been able to get a good one on it yet.
This message was edited Jul 22, 2007 7:31 AM
Excellent photo, Sheila! You might want to add that to BugFiles! :-)