Bummer, I was looking forward to them! LOL Do melons need cross-pollinating or anything like that? I know my kiwis need male and female plants or they won't set fruit.
Gwen
Straw Bale Gardening (Part 15)
Monster zucchini that was hidden under the foliage.
I only planted one variety of tomato this year, Beefsteak, and I don't think they have quite as good a flavor as what I planted last year, but don't remember what I planted last year. Whatever we had last year made the best stewed tomatoes and okra I have ever had.
Would love some suggestions on the best tasting tomatoes for that kind of thing. The beefsteak are great for sandwiches, etc., though.
Gwendalou;;
Years ago I planted. what was supposed to be , 1 male and 3 female Kiwi the Chinese varity. Well 3 died and I am left with one. There has never been any blossoms; that I could see anyway. I don't know what I have but would sure like to have some of the opposite.
Otherwise, it is just running its branches or vines all over, and is just a nuisance vine. I may just have to move it, as it does like to droop its vines in my koi pond. And that nearly done in several of the koi. Guess I may have to order another pair or set but they seem to want an arm and a leg for them now.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`Russ
Gwen, I have 6 of those melon plants and I doubt that I have all one sex in the 6 so I don't think that is it.
Russ, use the kiwi for a trellis. It would be beautiful to have a clematis, or any other pretty vine crawling all over it. A lot of people are planting 2 plants in the same hole now. Normally something like a climbing rose with a clematis. Need to buy the right group for blooming and pruning tho.
Not too bad of an idea. Maybe if I make a good strong trellis for it to rank all over. Not sure which would choke which. those vines really wrap tight around one another or anything they can reach out and grab.
I will give that some thought. Anybody got clematis seed. Or is that only by cuttings???
I've had clematis started before. but had to try move it as it was where I extended the kitchen out to. It didn't like me, so it refused to grow.
I hate to pay the price that is in those catalogs" whoo Yaah"
Just went out and moved the water hose. While out checked the bales. Picked 10 of the san marzino, to keep. also picked about the same number of tiny half tomato with the end dark but dry. left them for the birds. Did get one off that plant that was good. It may come around yet.
Weather man said we were going to get rain tonight- - - - I think it will go North of us, so I'm watering. The air is heavy like it could but the actual storm cell is going north of here, so it won't be much.
Some watermelons need a different kind of watermelon planted near them in order for them to produce fruit.
I planted some Petite Yellow watermelons this year, and had to plant a red one close by in order for it to hold fruit. Not true of all watermelons, but some it is.
~Lucy
Hmmmmmm This I didn't know. I may have never planted any of that variety. I usually just stick to those with the red flesh. This one is a black diamond. I like the striped ones too, but it was late so I bought two plants. I knew that if I planted seed a black diamond would not mature by the first frost.
MaryinLa: I would have a huge zucchini turn up like that sometimes. I'd miss picking it and they seemed to get huge over night.
Kent
I am going to do it next year with some winter planning. do you guys ever transplant them after they grow or leave them always?
hellnzn 11; Not sure of the question? but If you mean starting the plant then transplanting??
All the tomatoes I put in bales, were transplanted there.
I did plant some melons seed direct into bales. The ones surviveing are finally doing something. I would say that for me it has worked better, transplanting them. I have not had the best luck with my bales, but then this is my first attempt at bale gardening. I have been a dirt person untill this year. I have some learning to do, to be sure. But then I have excellant soil here and I guess I expected the same results from the bales. Was trying to get out of all the weeding. I think that jnette or strawbaleman, might be able to give a better answer. Russ
Thanks. I forgot that most plant a small plant in the bale. I was thinking of planting from seed. I was wondering if you ever planted flowers or some self sowing plants if once they were established in the bale, did people take them out later and plant them but never mind, it was a dumb question.
On this forum there are no dumb questions. I've been doing a lot of trial and error on the bales, myself. I know what I have to do with veggies in the dirt, But having to get all the right nutriants in the bales. For the most part I think I failed. After I put on some old horse poo tea on the bales things started to perk up. Now that the roots are way down in the rotting part of the bales, the plants are looking better. and I don't worry so much about watering as often.
But no I don't think it would work too well taking the plants back out of the bales. Something that you could get slips from though, and use the slips for starting new plants could be a different story. I never thought of that before. However I do take cuttings from my sweetpotatoes, that I planted in the ground. Mostly the ornamentals though. and have sent the rooted slips through the mail to others. with good luck.
But if you are going to try the bales next year or later this year yet since you are in 8b. there is a lot you can grow there this fall yet, that I couldn't here in 4b.
Hey Kent jump in here and give hellnzn11 some help here He he he :)
Russ, I am not Kent, but I think you answered as well as anyone could. I don't know how you would get the roots out of the strawbale all in one piece with the plant. Besides the slips if the plants had seeds, harvest those and plant them in other places or scatter on the bales and then sprinkle a layer of soil mix on top.
I think, unfortunately, maybe some people tried a lot of things that just were not meant to work in the bales and maybe they got discouraged. But if you don't try you would always wonder if it might have worked. Does that make sense?
Jeanette
Ya jeanette You might feel a little out of place, tote-n a badge and all :)
He he . I thought he might give her some clue as to what she might plant for a fall crop. I think a fall crop for me is just out of the question.
As tomatoes go untill first frost. and sometimes so do the cucumbers. That is if they don't burn up first.
When I pulled up all my onions, Garlic, and Pea vines, I was going to plant some beans. Barb kind of talked me out of that. since I'm doing the garden & canning, it wasn't too hard. We want to take some time off the middle of September. Going to go the other side of the state, visit my oldest brother and go see an old steam powered threshing machine at work. and a bunch of other antique machenery. Not to mention just some good visiting.
Thought I would include one of the old tractors they have there at the Heritage park.
That's pretty cool looking Russ. Bet you'll have a good time, but in the middle of September? Isn't that canning time there?
Jeanette
I'm in the middle of canning right now. So far 27 quarts of pickles, and another bucket full waiting. The san marzano maters have started now too. Don't have a lot but we can't eat enough BLTs to use them up. I guess that means I need to start making pastes, sauce, and salsa. The sweet banana peppers are keeping up with the canning as well.
We are only planning on a week-end- and I told Gary down town to pick what he wants for salads and so forth. He might pull one on me though- - - -Last year another neighbor raised some water melon, in addition to a lot of maters and cukes. one of the water melons got swiped. taken down to the local resturant. And Gary served a slice to ( the owner) of the melon. He comented on how good it was. and was then told where it came from so it should taste good. It was all a joke and he took it very well.
Oh well we will see.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Russ
Sounds like you are in for a good time Russ. Wonder how he would have felt if he had said it didn't taste as good as his?
Gotta tell you Russ, you've got more steam than I do. What are your temperatures like now? I wouldn't even try to can in this heat. We are running in the 90s. Once in a while it gets up to the triple digits. But, this is unusual for us.
However, I never have canned the pickles. Just sterilize the jars and lids, pack the cukes in with the spices and pour the boiling brine over them. That's it. That is for dills tho. I always found that every time I tried to hot bath them or can them that they ended up soft.
Same with jams and jellies. I don't can those either. Just pour them in sterilized, hot jars & lids, and now I turn them upside down for 5 minutes. Didn't use to.
Jeanette
Jeanette I guess I call the whole process canning. If they stay in the hot bath too long, they really do get soft. That is one of the reasons that pickleing spice has a little alum in it. I remember one of the first times, I
pickled a batch, and didn't use the hot bath. The jars all sealed, but in a short time. they started to ferment and a couple jars blew up, and the rest were just leaking out as the rings were not that tight. It sure made a mess though. I don't remember for sure if I skiped washing them first or not. That was 45 or so years ago.
The kitchen does warm up a quite a bit, but I try close off the rest of the house, so it don't over work the A/C. We haven't had any triple didgits this summer yet. Had several 98s in a row. It has been in the 90s most of the time though.
Got up early this morning, so I could water another part of the garden, before it gets hot. I had planned to do a small batch of pickles this morning but I think I will just get them to soaking in the brine, and wait till this evening. I'm tempted to do a batch of pickles the way we used to you know, the 14 day, but that would tie up the crock longer than I'm willing and I would probably forget about them too long or something.
You know what that would be like. EEEWwee!!!!
randponder and jnette, just wanted to jump in here and let you know that one of my market customers recently told me about the "perfect pickler". She says it makes pickles in only 4 days and they are delicious!
After reading up on it online it appears these are not the kind we can put up those and must be eaten fresh. (These are the old-fashioned "lactic acid fermented" kind.)
Ya'll might want to check it out though and see if you can use up some of your cukes this way! http://perfectpickler.com/home.html
Happy Day to All!
Shoe
i have 2 Harsch crocks for lactic acid fermentation (pickles, kraut, beets, carrots or whatever) and as long as water is kept in the seal, they will keep a year in a cool spot. mine go in the spring house. you can take out a jarful, replace the water in the seal, and they're good to keep as long as the water doesn't evaporate. the lactic acid is very good for the body.
http://www.canningpantry.com/sauerkraut-crocks.html
Gee I don't know the name of my crocks. They have a picture of a crown with 6 in the crown. I have those two and a smaller one. I used to have a 20 gal. one too but I really couldn't handle it very well. So it went to a collector, along with several others. and on the bottom it just says USA.
But I'll check the site out.
Well mine definatly are not the harsh crock. as far as a seal, I've always just used a dinner plate weighted down. Oh well.
This message was edited Aug 1, 2007 1:48 PM
Rand and Jnette thanks. I do feel very ignorant of a lot of gardening things, though I have had a succesful garden before. I can not root plants from anything no matter what I do, it seems to be an art or something you need to watch people do. I have a book that shows step by step and pthhhhhhhhhhhh.
This sounds like something that once you get it, you get it. i may try some fall stuff but I need to do my lazagna garden plants too, maybe I`ll place the bales in the lazagna garden bed that is not all decomposed yet and add bales and plant in that for this fall and maybe next late winter I can use the bales in the garden for another layer and it will be ready for direct plantings by then with another good layer of soil. hmmm?
hellnzn11. Don't give up. Do your lazagna garden this fall. Then in the spring get a couple of bales and buy some tomato plants and try them. I think once you try it you will like it. I like it because I don't have to get down low to pick the tomatoes, there is no weeding or hoeing etc. All I have to do is water and fertilize.
But, I have to admit that the bale gardening is not for everyone. I do believe we lost a lot of people from last year. Maybe some of them will come back again after a year of soil gardening. Don't know.
Whatever you do good luck. Jeanette
thanks. It is heavy work getting the bales but the dirt work is all the time.
Hey everyone!
Well it's been a whole year since I have been around here. I still have my bales standing (barely) from last year, and I again have wonderful healthy tomato plants growing in them. I notice that I hardly have to water them at all this year. Not sure what that's all about. What do you think?
Salem: good morning from my end of the US of A!
Welcome back. I've been away from the thread alot this summer due to family/work/other stuff, but I've enjoyed reading when I can. Things have settled down some, Praise the Lord! :-)
Glad to hear about the 2 years of service you've gotten out of your bales. Keep up the good work.
As for watering, I have watered my bales less this year than any of the previous two years, and my garden has done the best it has ever had.
Zero problems this year, of any kind.
Here's my revised opinions on bale gardening (with straw) after 3 years and tons of emails from others:
1. The initial prepping of the bales plays an important role.
Most of the folks who called me with problems skipped this step or didn't complete it. They either cooked their plants from the heat of the bales that hadn't "cooled" down yet, or even if the bales didn't heat up, they transplanted too early and the straw was still so tough it just didn't hold or let any moisture down in the bales long enough, and the plants suffered.
Hay and grass bales probably have totally different characteristics. I have no experience with them, but those who have report only positive results.
2. I now believe that string side down works best for me.
I had no problems making a crack in the bales to transplant. And I had no where near the water run-off when watering my bales as I had the two previous years when I had the strings off the ground with the bales on their sides.
With the string side down, the water trickled down the bales rather than running straight down through the hollow straw shafts.
3. I prefer bales with twine over bales with plastic string.
The biggest reason is the plastic strings are a BIG PAIN when it comes to getting up the old bales. The plastic strings don't rot so you have to deal with them hanging up in the straw on in the ground when you use a pitch fork to move the old bales to your compost pile or where ever. You also have to dispose of the strings.
The twine rots nicely and since I have most of my bales butted up to each other, they tend to support each other for most of the summer. I never had to stake the ends of the bales, either. I just let the bales do what they want to do which is just shrink up on the spot, some more than others.
4. Adding some potting mix when you transplant won't hurt and is probably a good thing to do.
This year I added 2 good handfulls of Miracle Gro potting mix around each transplant. The mix helps retain some moisture in the early, critical stages of plant growth before the bales really start to decomposing and holding more moisture on their own.
5. I only watered once per day.
At the end of the day after the sun went down I watered each bale and let it go. Here's where I think the orientation of the bales helped. With the string side down, it appears more moisture stays in the bale longer.
Design any watering system that works for you, but don't get overly concerned about watering. It really doesn't take that much.
And, as the bales decompose if you skip one night, no problem. Just use some good judgement and don't let your plants go without water when it's 90+ each day.
We are in drought conditions in NC and while most of my neighbors' gardens are mostly dried up, I have beautiful tomatoes and peppers going full blast.
You talk about watering, it takes a TON of water for a dirt garden, and even with sprinklers most of the water goes everywhere but around the plants. You end up watering the middle of the row which causes grass and weeds to grow, too.
6. I fertilized my bales about every 5 days.
As most of you know, I'm a Miracle Gro man, plain and simple.
I don't have the time to make up compost teas, etc. and spend alot of time mixing up home brews. There's alot of good recipes for fertilizers that have been posted, but with 60+ bales it's much simpler and easier for me to put that "can" on the end of my hose and water/feed at the same time.
Here's where I get alot of emails.
Most folks complain that their plants are yellow, etc, but then say they haven't fertilized their plants for 2 weeks.
Dirt gardening and bale gardening are different and you have to adjust your feeding schedules and amounts.
That's one of the biggest reasons I like Miracle Gro. It's pretty near impossible to over feed or burn the plants.
7. When it comes to tomatoes go with a trellis.
Traditional tomato cages and stakes just won't cut it. Get some 4x4 posts and some heavy wire and fix up a nice trellis at least 7-8 feet tall. You won't regret it.
Well, these are the first things that popped in my mind, for whatever they are worth.
Just my opinion.
I encourage you to continue to add your thoughts and comments. That's what makes this site great.
Kent
This message was edited Aug 7, 2007 9:45 AM
Kent, my bales (straw) were placed strings down and have done fine. The planter (me) did not so fine, planting 7 weeks late due to surgery. Finally my tomatoes are starting to really take off, along with a few squash (none of which may mature fully due to late starting although I hope for a late frost). All are now tag-less thanks to my brother's young grandson who visited recently.
I have 2 tiny watermelons the size of walnuts, 2 ears of corn on 8 stalks, several heirloom tomatoes, and I'm hoping some of the squash are winter squash. I transplanted some buttercup squash into the ground adjacent to the bales but they are doing squat so far.
I may leave the bale remnants in place and simply add new bales on top for next year. It's either that, or move the cattle panels down a foot and a half lower to tie up the 'maters next year. Here's an earlier posted photo of my bale set-up. http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=3662460
Darius, now there's one idea I hadn't thought of. Placing the new bales on top of the old bale. Salem is right, the old bales don't take as much water as the new ones. The old bales do decompose to about half the size of new so I could probably get by with that. This year my tomatoes are about as high as I can reach. But then the tomatoes aren't going to be clear up there either. Good idea because I still have straw left over from last year that I couldn't find a place for. Yes, I have been adding to the compost pile but it doesn't seem to compost as fast as other stuff. Maybe I should add some of that really strong urea or something to my compost pile?
Russ, Guess what!! I have 3 small melons growing on one long leg of the vine. Only about an inch apart, about e feet from the root, hanging from the cattle panel!! The rest of the vine is sterile. LOL It is going to be interesting to see what they do. I am thinking of putting a net under them to keep them from breaking from the plant.
Jeanette
Jeanette; The volunteer melons that came up for me. have been putting on a few melons. I put up a section of cattle panel to keep them from going over into the cucumbers. One of the melons was hanging from the top of the panel. Yesterday in the rain it fell off the vine. Well I had to cut it open. Waallaa it was ripe. and it did not cross with the cukes. Was much better than any we have been able to get from the stores.
Congrats on the small melons. I'm thinking that my problem may have been too much nitrogen, I don't know, but with the stunted growth and all, I'm sure it was something like that. However the tomatoes are taking over all of the panel I provided. The fruits are not as uniform as I have grown in the past, but they are not hurting for flavor.
I'm still waiting for those I planted in the dirt. but then They were planted much later. Those in the bales are the San Marzano, we have been eating them in salads and BLTs. But alas they are getting ahead of us. I have put up 4 pts. of salsa from the excess. They are now starting to come on faster. and I have found a few of the red pear tomato on one of the plants I got from the RU this spring and planted in dirt. Now they have flavor. All the other larger tomatoes are still green. I'm getting peppers from all the plants, in the bales, in the dirt, early and later plantings. A couple of my pepper plants were so loaded when it started raining that they couldn't hold all the weight, and they bent under the strain. I picked those two clean hoping they would straighten up again. With the peppers coming on now and the majority of the tomatoes still green. I may have to pickle some of the peppers. so they can be used in salsa and BBQ sauce at a later date. Oh and one more thing, I am going to have to put my bales further apart next year, or just have one row. I could prune the plants to only have vines on one side, so they don't take up the space between the two rows, a little late for that this year though.
Kent good to see you back. I may have to do the miracle-gro next year.
I will say though I don't think Barb will let me use it on any of the house plants again. as it did put them in some kind of shock. I know one of them died. I took cuttings off the one ivy and am trying to get them to root. so if a little is good - - - - more is not always any better. If I were trying to kill them with roundup I could not have done it any faster. I bought the concintreted stuff and must have mixed it too strong. Any way good to hear from ya. Don't go working too hard, it might make me feel bad, then I'll have to work harder. Remember work is a four letter word. :o) heh heh heh
Russ: that's funny! and H-O-T-T-T is a 5 letter word in NC right now, too!
Darius: you've got some tomato sandwich eating to make up!!
I received this hand-written letter in the mail today from a lady in southeastern NC:
Mr. Rogers,
I planted my tomatoes in bales of straw. They are about 12 ft. tall. We planted 10 plants, 2 per bale - used small wire to hold bales together.
We get more than we can eat and have about 3 pecks to can. Also give to family and friends.
I plan to copy your article for friends. We live by the road, people stop by to look and ask questions.
We have our straw for next year.
We can't plant tomatoes in our soil, some type of wilt. Only pest was tobacco hornworms - super 10 fixed that.
I added lime to each hill of tomatoes; it made them sweeter.
Thank you, Mrs. ___________ .
P.S. - We are 78 and 75 years young.
This message was edited Aug 8, 2007 12:16 AM
Russ, peppers freeze good too. You don't have to pickle them. Just throw them in the freezer whole and can them when the weather is cold. It'll heat you and the house up.
Glad you got some melons anyway. Don't forget to keep the seeds if you want some next year. Maybe we can breed that hybrid out of them. LOL
Jeanette
Jeanette. Sorry I wasn't clear, The melons were from another varity. I think they stayed small was due to the the dry weather. But I am planning on saving those seeds as that one melon really tasted good. and it was small enough for two. So far the rest of the melons on that vine are about the same size. I have no idea what melon provided the seed for this volunteer. I am almost sure it had to be one we bought from the store and the seed survived the compost pile. When I first saw them coming up, I was tempted just to pull them up. But am glad I didn't.
I guess I let it slip past whatever greymatter I have left. Yes I will freeze a bunch today, as I have quite a few that need picked. The weather today is beautifull. It is 72 F and and it is sprinkling. Not a drizzle just a sprinkle. It felt good as we were walking back home from having coffee at ( the barn). He He, The Barn and the bank are the only business' left in town. The bank is just a branch, of one in Moville 10 miles away. The Barn is our local coffee shop / resturant.
Good one Kent, I'll have to remember how to spell that 5 letter word if we get any 100 F + days here. So far our temps haven't gone over 98F
But they had humidity of the same %. You could work up a sweat just thinking about going outside. Had to have a towel by the door so when you came back in you didn't drip all over the floor. LOL
Russ, whatever the melon, if it works for you be sure to keep some seeds.
Also, when I get melons at the store I cut the rind off and then cut the melon in bite size cubes and put them in a sealed container. Just a few of those cubes are wonderful on a plate with a baked potato, steak and green salad. Just a nice juicy touch. They don't always have to be for breakfast.
Try it you'll like it.
Jeanette
I have been quartering them and putting in the baggies, but sometimes even a quarter is too long for the bag. chunking them would probably eliminate one bag. Oh an I just used breakfast as an expression. We are usually quite versatile. If we decide to eat desert first - - - well so be it. We don't have to make sure any little ones skip the vegies and fill up on desert LOL However we do have to watch how much goes over the lip and lands on the hips.
I'm not sure if I said anything about a spinach salad with strawberrys, that finally got me hooked on using spinach. Raw only though. I don't eat it cooked. School lunches and hospital cooking have ruined any chance of ever getting it ant further than it being in the same building, while I'm eating. maybe some day but not yet. Well heres to saving some of the seed from the melons. Which leads me to ask. Do you clean the seeds with oxy-clean like some do or let them dry and just rub them clean.
No, I just air dry them and then put them away in a baggie. BUT make darned sure they are dry. Then in the spring I pull all the crap off of them.
That Spinach and Strawberry salad is really good. Don't you use the spinach raw in place of lettuce in sandwiches? Have you tried a spinach souffle? Made in the crockpot??? I am going to have to send you that recipe. It is wonderful.
I will send it to Barb. She can fix it when you have company so that you can just try a little bit.
The weather here has turned cool. We actually went fishing today and fortunately no fish dared to interrupt my nap by biting on my hook. So, since it is turning cool, the tomatoes are starting to ripen, fearing that they are not going to get their production completed before winter.
Jeanette
OK, feeling the need for the spinach souffle in the crockpot recipe, Jeanette :~)
Lana
Lana wrote;"OK, feeling the need for the spinach souffle in the crockpot recipe, Jeanette :~)"
Me, too, please. It might be just the thing to get me going on organizing my fall planting.....
Margo
Ok, Lana and Margo (also Barb) here it is, and as you can probably tell, this is from my daughter to me and I have left in hers, and my both, comments. This is a pretty flexible recipe and I normally leave it on about 6 to 8 hours depending on how hot your crockpot works. I have had some that are really hot and some that are really low. (I use them a lot)
Also, I think if you were to use the whole leaf spinach like my daughter said she thought she would like, (I don't know if she has tried it yet), I think you would need to cook it longer.
Subject: Spinach Souffle
4- 10 oz. pkg chopped spinach thawed and squeeze the water out. (I have just discovered the bagged spinach and like its convenience much better)
3 beaten eggs
1 cube margarine cubed
1 1/2 Cup cubed cheddar cheese
1/4 cup flour
1/2 Cup Cottage Cheese
Mix and put in greased crock pot on high for 2 hours and low for 3 hours. Stir it up now and then. Also, if it appears too moist after stirring, leave the lid off the pot. And vice versa if dry.
Now that I look at this recipe it has the cottage cheese added in my handwriting so I don't know if originally there wasn't cottage cheese in it or what. Weird. Also when I made it I put it on high for about 45 min and then had to go somewhere so I turned it down to low and let it go till it was tender. Next time though I'm going to use the whole leaf frozen and not the already chopped.
Russ,
Try it you'll love it. Jeanette