Morus Alba 'paperdolls'

Fun, huh?

Your ginkgos are fun trees, I love them all. I love variegated plants but not this one. This Morus alba 'Paperdolls'... is about as "fun" as the straight species unless of course someone is going to be cutting it down to the ground and stumping it out to make paper dolls out of this horribly invasive plant.

This is definitely not a "fun" plant in my opinion for anyone who works or volunteers in natural areas who is going to have to manage escapees in an attempt to reduce ecological threat this plant poses to the environment.

Yikes, I think I'm almost outta here.....

After I posted here, I was online trying to find a "Wanted" Poster I had seen created for this particular species. I found it-
http://www.nps.gov/plants/alien/fact/brpa1.htm

While poking around for any information I could find specifically on "Paperdolls', I also found this although I couldn't read the first post or the second post because there was some sort of an animated hungry suitcase ad jumping out at me-
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/trees/msg06011900301.html

Equilibrium:

I would like to have one of those "hypo-hatchets" in my invasive plant tool arsenal.

Sadly, I am hypo-hatchetless. I wish I had one but so far I've found that I can use my regular old hand axe to strip enough bark off in a ring around the tree to paint the exposed cambium layer with enough happy juice to do it in. I know you have your own chain saw too. You could cut them down and then paint the stump with happy juice. That generally does them in too and if you only cut it down to 12-18", that leaves you room to come back in and take another swipe at it and then paint again if it suckers on you. I've seen them sucker after one dose of happy juice but not after a second dose. They're normally pretty dead after the second dose.

I have a Black & Decker "Alligator" and a Remington 16 in electric chain saw. Both of these are electric, so they are limited by whether I can reach an electrical outlet. I also have a Stihl gas powered chainsaw, but I don't use it much.

We are in the middle of a major drought and you would not believe how tenacious some of these invasives can be. A double dose of happy juice. Now I know what would make them DEAD. DEAD is good.

Too bad all the Morus abla cultivars aren't as pretty as this one. Thanks for posting it!

I've got a Stihl MS200 T which is gas and light enough for me that I don't get tired as fast. It's not going to take down big mommas but there's plenty that it can get. The guys take down the bigger trees with their larger chainsaws. I physically can't handle that much weight at my size. You can use Ortho's BrushBGon on Morus alba. The active ingredient in that happy juice is triclopyr.

I don't know how many you have on your property or what size they are but if you have a lot that are only 1-1.5", you might want to consider a weed wrench. No chemicals needed with the weed wrench because that tool can rip them right out of the ground roots and all but there is the initial outlay of the cost to purchase one. If you are dealing with a lot of smaller woody invasives, this tool would pay for itself in one season. This has become a staple for the Forest Preserves around here. My FP District probably has 10 of them for volunteers to use.

http://www.canonbal.org/weed.html
I use the light but we also have a medium that my husband will use every once in a while. The light is better for people who are under 150 lbs. The medium is best for people around 200lbs. There will be times you are going to have to lay on this tool to bring it to the ground. I've got enough weight to get most but do have to get my husband to bring a few down for me every once in a while even using the light. You should probably be over 100lbs to use the light. If you aren't over 100lbs, don't buy it.

It seems to me this isn't the place to be offering one's opinion on invasive plants. There's a specific forum dedicated to that, and if dybbuk or anyone else wants to learn more they can go there. You know, Equal, it seems to me I recall you mentioning some time ago that you drive an SUV. I personally think driving these gas hogs for commuting around suburban Chicago is irresponsible and a far greater threat to the environment than dybbuk's Morus alba. But that's just my opinion. If I want to see changes made in mandatory fuel standards I need to work through the policital channels rather than browbeating those I see as offenders. This is not your personal forum to serve your cause. Frankly I'm a little irritated that admin. hasn't stepped in and said something about this. I get slapped on the hand for saying "poop" while you can rail on someone for simply posting a picture of a plant they bought.

Bob

Source for hypohatchet:
http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/View_Catalog_Page.asp?mi=6348
Expensive - not a one use or impulse purchase.

I am as big a fan as any of varigated plants. See it-buy it! But I wish somone had told me what a horrible plant Ampelopsis brevigulata variegata was "before" it took me and a three neighbor squad three years to eradicate it.

Offered without rancor and respect for all the opinions posted prior. I found the information useful, proper forum etiquette ( of which I do not place myself as judge) not-withstanding.

Thanks for the support guys. The preaching here surpasses the joy of this site. I can't help but get offended when people feel the need to "educate" assuming one is irresponsible and the rants start flying. Guess I won't post my pics of my Ailanthus 'pendula'. :)

This message was edited Jun 14, 2007 1:07 PM

Hey. Hey. Invasiveness is a characteristic, just like vigor, pink, blue-grey, drought tolerant, etc. etc. To designate a plant as invasive, is appropriate wherever a plant having that characteristic happens to be discussed. IMHO.

Fortunately, we do have a separate forum for invasive plants. That doesn't mean thats the only place that particular characteristic can be discussed. I didn't mean to hijack anyone's thread. But it is basic tenet of intelligent discussion that it will waiver a bit off dead center.

I for one almost always appreciate Equilibrium's opinions for the reason that they are almost always right on target.

Oopsie, I think I’ve been mistaken for somebody else because I’ve never owned an SUV. I’ve always purchased cars save one time I bought a mini-van and that was way too hard on gas and was blowing all over the road in high winds. Shame I traded it in after only owning it for a few months because I really liked the interior space. Much easier to haul plants and such in a van or SUV than in a car.

That being said, evidently the original poster wasn’t looking for a “harangue” on this plant’s invasiveness and wanted ohs and ahs. In looking at his recent posts, it’s evident he’s a collector. Perhaps Maackia is correct and any comments other than those that ever so gently mention a plant’s documented invasiveness be saved for those who post in Trees and Shrubs who are looking for that type of information or forums other than Trees and Shrubs where other members just tell other members to rip it out or flat out get rid of it without even bothering to offer up any type of an explanation other than that a plant is an invasive species or a noxious weed. Well, it is an intoxicatingly beautiful plant. Many people, myself included, are very attracted to variegated leaves and the leaves on this particular plant are most certainly something to oh and ah over. And the original poster’s photography skills are very good. I apologize however the word “fun” he used when describing the plant jumped out at me and I am personally having difficulty viewing Morus alba anything as fun these days.

Any ideas on how to get this “fun” gift from one of my neighbor’s plants out of my ‘White Knight’? I’ve tried to place plastic bags over my ‘White Knight’ to protect it while trying to foliar spray the White Mulberry. I couldn't spray it with as much chemical as what I would have liked because I suspect the roots are entwined so the White Mulberry didn’t die. I tried to get my weed wrench in close enough to pull it out but the ‘White Knight’ started coming up along with it and then the darn thing snapped leaving me no way to try to get a grip on it again and no way to strip bark to apply an herbicide. I’m slightly frustrated with the Morus alba seedlings sprouting up by me and even more so that I missed this particular one smack dab an inch from the base of a plant that is very desirable to me.

Ah, I must be wrong about you owning an SUV. I guess it was your earlier posting on Gardenweb inquiring about buying a Chrysler Pacifica (Do you remember that?) that led me to believe you owned an SUV. Sorry for jumping to conclusions. In any case, that's not the gist of my point. If you've got an issue with a woody plant someone is posting about, you could simply refer them to the Invasive Plant forum for more information. If dybbuk had inquired about the plants invasive potential than it would certainly have been appropriate to answer his questions. What I object to is the incessant pushing of your agenda when its not relevant to the discussion. I actually agree with you in most cases, but there's a place and time for doing it.

Bob

I would say it was me who you were confused on at the posting over at GardenWeb remark, since I post there all the time, but since I don't drive an SUV and I'm not interesting in driving an SUV, then it wouldn't be.

I'm also confused. I can go back and find lots of posts about people wanting to buy Bradford Pears or people and their Mimosa trees and others, and all the people saying how invasive they were. Why is this any different? People don't buy a plant and just assume it's an invasive. They don't come here after buying a plant and then say, by the way, is this thing invasive? No, they come here to show the pretty tree or shrub they just bought or to ask what happened when it fell apart in a snow storm or to tell how great a tree it is and how gosh darn cheap they are at the big box stores and then people educate them on how invasive they are. That's wrong? People are annoyed at being educated, I'm annoyed at personal attacks. Do they ever stop? Will they ever stop?

Here's some links

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/729190/

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/577774/

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/658224/

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/564435/

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/584881/

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/584811/

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/555919/

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/551677/

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/540461/

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/550705/

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/566621/

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/600385/

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/634601/

I think it's totally fair to point out invasiveness in cases like this, sometimes the original poster may not be aware the plant has that potential, or even if they are aware of it, someone who comes along and oohs and aahs over the plant and wants to run out and buy it may not be aware, so a mention of its invasive potential is perfectly appropriate, to me it's no different than pointing out that a given plant won't be hardy in someone's zone or it needs a ton of babying, etc. If someone knows nothing about a plant and hasn't been given any reason to think it may be invasive, they're highly unlikely to go post on the Invasive forum and ask about it (if they even know we have an invasives forum).

IMHO, what is most inappropriate to the tree forum are personal attacks. It seems ironic to me that the tallest and most majestic of plants, the canopies and understories of gardens, attract the smallest and meanest commentary. Not appropriate at all that a forum on trees, probably the single most critical class of living things to the continued existence of our planet, would attract dialog that would turn intellectual inquiry away in another direction.

No, Terrry, I did not confuse the two of you. Although, as you’ve alluded, I’m sure it would be easy to do. Perhaps you’ve forgotten, but Lauren was also a frequent contributor on GW prior to moving the show over here. Furthermore, I’m not sure what you mean by this: “People are annoyed at being educated, I'm annoyed at personal attacks. Do they ever stop? Will they ever stop?” First of all, I don’t think I attacked Equilibrium. Secondly, you make it seem as if I do this on a frequent basis. Can you provide some evidence of this?

As I indicated in my original post, I recognize the serious problems of invasive plants and there’s most likely very little difference in our opinions on this matter. Most of us also know that Equil is very active in the fight against invasives and belongs (leadership position?) to an organization (the name escapes me at the minute) dedicated to this effort. For that I applaud her. No, what I object to is when advocacy crosses into what I see as zealotry and self-righteousness. My posting was not meant as a personal attack, and if it came across as such then I’m sorry. Sometimes our passions become out of balance and that is what I was commenting on.

Bob

Oopsie, confusing me with someone else again. I am in no leadership position for any group and never have been unless one counts scouts and we certainly did go out and clean up roadsides and pull invasive species and noxious weeds. I clean up invasive species on my own property and have volunteered quite a bit in the past but lately have little or no time as I've been volunteering at nursing homes- 7 to be exact. We've been growing native plants from seed for common areas of gardens located where the seniors live, we've made suet for the birds, and have set out bird feeders filled with safflower seed. There is such a need in the community for this type of work.

Well, that's why I put the question mark by it, as I wasn't certain that you were. I simply recall you trying to recruit me into the organization and mentioning that you were giving a presentation at one of the meetings. I'm a bit confused about this. Are you denying you are or ever were a member of such an organization? Here I was giving you kudos for for your involvment, but perhaps it was misplaced. Seems odd though that you'd be trying to recruit members for something you didn't belong to.

Bob

Oopsie, your posts are all a bit OT. Just my HO, for what it's worth.

Dybbuk ~ I think your plant would look great in a container planting, where the interesting leaf shape would contrast well with some finer foliaged plants, and any invasive potential could be minimized.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Mulberry

Prairie Girl: I understand that this plant is invasive because the seeds are spread by bird droppings. How would planting it in a pot inhibit the invasive process?

In a pot, the growth might be restricted to the point where it does not produce fruit. Additionally, its size could be contained to where the fruit could be collected and destroyed.

Scott

Thanks Scott~that was my line of thinking.

I loved the foliage of Morus Paper doll , but after I read all the posts I decided against. I just removed a large White fruited Morus, because of the very invasive surface roots, and don't want to try something that might be invasive here. thanks for all the info.

DonnaS