here's a question. Some friends are keeping us supplied with more leaf lettuce than we can eat. Do any of you have a recipe for lettuce other than salad?
Straw Bale Gardening (Part 14)
alhough it is very late in the season, i finally have my first straw bale row up.
the posts are cedar and although they do not show in the photo, cattle panels run from the tops of the posts down. on one side, i plan tomatoes, and maybe beans or whatever on whatever on other side. i may need to add a small bottom layer of something for beans to climb until they reach the cattle panels.
i have several extra bales which will form a cube for winter squash or other vining plants at one end.
darius
Your grass is so green I am envious. We have gotten a couple of rains the last few days but not nearly what we need. My bale garden is so pitiful I am ashamed to take pictures of it. Both my yellow squash died. One of my bell peppers died but I replaced it. I have lost 1 tomato plant. The others are doing just okay. They have really perked up after the last couple of rains. I water them but the city water just doesn't do the trick. I have empty bales but no energy to put anything in them. The heat zaps me by the time I finish working with the horses. It was 98 here today.
darius,
How tall is the cattle panel? I put up dog wire for my beans -- eight feet high -- unfortunately, I forgot I'm not eight feet tall! So, I have to get the kitchen step-stool to pick the beans. LOL. Next year, shorter dog wire.
Karen
Darius, that looks great ! You are a wonder.
I've got one mound in the yard that's about 2-l/2 Feet high,
and there is one lonely Butternut squash plant growing there.
Right now, there are about 10 squash, ranging in size from
about 8 inches to 4 inches or so. My dogs pulled the tomato
plants out of their pots and the poor things shriveled up and
died in the hot sun before I saw the damage. Oh, well.
I'm hoping for a veggie garden next year - all this rain has
made it impossible to do any work in the garden, and it's
gonna rain for the next 7 to 9 days. I'm gonna lose my
mind here.
I'll save your mind, Mahnot, and mine too just send the rain this way! We need it soooo desperately.
Lana
karen, cattle panels are 52" x 16'. the height was chosen more for interderminate tomatoes, if i get beans that tall too, i will have to use my short ladder. i really don't expect much summer produce this year due to a late start but should make good use of my bales for fall crops.
my next cattle panels will run from the top of this row in an arch down to the ground, like half a hoop house, which i can cover with shade cloth or whatever. maybe extend the growing season spring and fall just a bit.
Darius -- Congratulations on getting the poles and panels set up. You're way ahead of me in thinking about Fall planting. The drought here has me firmly concentrated on now. Everything here needs watering, some daily. This was our year for a major landscaping push which means all the plants were ordered before we knew it was going to be so dry. Now the focus is on trying to get all the new plants through their first year and established. Most everything planted more than a year ago is holding its own, but some of the new stuff is in serious distress. Lord, I wish we had an underground watering system. On the bales I went to a soaker hose; hope that helps conserve some water. I sure am more in touch with what is happening day to day with the weather since we started gardening!
Please take some pictures of the half hoop house when it is built. It sounds interesting.
Kent -- That is one monster zucchini! Thanks for the yardstick picture -- I was trying to remember the dimensions of the grid in cattle panels and figure it out that way. You are going to be eating zucchini forever!
Anyone -- What are Fall crops for this area (7b, rain forest climate)? If I pre-started broccolli and cauliflower indoors would they have time to make it before freeze (late Oct)?
sandie, i hope to start fall crops in 2-3 weeks or so. most will be seeds in the bales although i may change miy mind and start seeds in seedling trays, like my butternut squash. i want rainbow chard, kale, mustard greens, and many others i cannot remember at the moment.
eliot coleman has a great book on year-round gardening in new england. surely if he can do it, i shoukd be able to do at least a 3 season garden.
http://www.amazon.com/Four-Season-Harvest-Organic-Vegetables-Garden/dp/1890132276/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-7010161-0420634?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182955376&sr=8-1
Shoe where are the seeds of Trombocino available. Never heard of them before. TIA DonnaS
I got some from
http://www.territorial-seed.com/stores/1/Tromboncino_P2395C604.cfm
Love the way the seeds are not in the neck only in the round end part.
HTH ☺
Ok I have read all threads today and my heart is racing so hard. I want to try this, though kind of late. I will try a bale or two and see, if it works, in the late fall I will get more bales and start decomposing them for late winter, where we can plant usually or possibly very early spring.
Questions:
1. can you plant seeds in them and have them succesfully germanate?
2. Do annuals work as well as veggies? I saw summer`s flowers but in general? flowers and all plants have different watering needs so how does this accomodate for that?
3. Havs anyone tried year round plants like trees and at the end of the season transplanted them succesfully in the ground?
4. Do you change the fact that the bales be kept moist at all in any time during the season? Do you water less after they sprout?
If some of this seems repetivie it may be but so you understand my concerns. I live in the high desert where the soil is clay, alkaline, heat winds and very low winter temps. so this is a big thing if it works for me.
Hell11, If I were in zone 8, I would try a couple NOW. Personally, I would not decompose one year for the next. I used 2 bales I had left over from last year and definiely prefer the new bales.
1. Yes, I started cukes and melons from seed. Also bole Blue Lake Beans.
2. Why do you think there would be a difference between annuals and vegies. Both the same aren't they?
3. Doubt anyone has tried what you are asking but I do not know why it wouldn't turn into mulch for the tree the second year. I would start them in the bales right where you want them to end up.
4. Sorry, you lost me on this one.
I would think this would work for you. I don't know why it would be any different than the way you would plant anything.
I am sure others might think differently than I. Hope they can help.
Jeanette
Scooter, nice to hear from you. Jeanette
PERRY, I have gone back thru almost all of the parts of this thread and cannot find where you gave the address for the nutrients for the fertilizer. My sister cannot believe the difference in her tomatoes in just days using the fertilizer I gave her.
I not only can't find the address information, but, I thought I got 2 "sleeves" of the nutrients. I cannot find the second one. PLUS, I cannot remember how much I paid for them.
Man it's hell to get old!!!
Please help.
Jeanette
jnette thanks. I am excited to try and so is my dh. what I meant to say in #4 is do you water the bales the same amount during the whole growing season or does it change to less water after the plant is established.
Jeanette: check your d mail
My seed planted bush beans, TriColor, in the bale, sprouted nicely the second time around . Think I didn't keep moist enough first time. I am hoping the dratted evil bunnies do not learn that beans are growing on the bale. I know it is late but I am going to try planting just a few peas. The bunnies, my dog, and the guineas all conspired against me and I will not get any peas. This time I am going to plant just a few seeds inside my Blackberry bird netting covered framework. There is also chicken wire up for two feet. Wish I had thought to plant them there earlier.
Donna
Hell -- I sprinkled a little bagged top soil on one bale and seeded Cold Set tomatoes and they came up just fine and are almost as tall as the seedlings I planted at the same time.
No experience with annuals and I don't think anyone has tried starting trees, although that is an intriguing thought.
Watered the same way as the seedlings. No 'maters on them yet but there are on seedlings. We are having a drought here; at first I was using a sprinkler system for about an hour or so a day. As I realized it was a drought I reduced the sprinkler use to every other day (I'm on a well and nervous about running it dry). I then went to watering plants directly as they needed it and am now on a soaker hose an hour or so every other day. Almost everything is doing fine. The Legend tomato is not doing as well and is needing babying.
Other plants in bales are melons, cantaloupe, cukes and 5 different kinds of maters.
Thinking about planting broccoli and cauliflower after my early tomatoes finish producing to see if they can produce before winter.
Welcome aboard this addictive thread.
I see that it is. I too have a desert rabbit problem so I may put mine two bales high if they are reaching the single ones or chicken wireing an enclosure. We have pheasants too, they may jump up there too.
What about Alfalafa straw bales? I think that is all we have around here?
alfalfa is hay not straw JSYK
big diff ;-)
Well we have hay but I thought it was the forsaken unnutricious part of the plant. I do not know what kind of straw ours is then. Isn`t straw from all of those grain plants, the parts left over and not used by humans for food? explain because i do not know? Should I use straw or what? I saw some people talking about different types to use and not to use.
Straw is the totally dead skeletal , hollow , cellulose stalk remains of grain crops.
Hay , which is either grasses or legumes such as as clover or alfalfa
is basically an air and sun dried/cured green grass-like product meant for livestock feed.
It has to be cured properly to avoid mold and heat development after it is baled.
Many barns have burned down because of damp hay bales that heated up and spontaneously combusted.
Moldy hay is toxic and so useless as a feed stuff ........... hence the old saying
"make hay while the sun shines" ☼
That is what I thought but they grow alfalfa here and not much else, so I am thinking the straw here came from alfalfa, is that ok?
Hay is hay and straw is straw and never the twain shall meet.
Straw is the left overs from wheat , oat and barley crops and is yellow in color.
alfalfa -IS HAY- from a legume plant resembling tall bushy pea plants. You cannot get straw from alfalfa.
pee ewww - You cans smell the stink of rotting hay crops if the farmer was unlucky enough to have his cut hay rained on before it could be baled and stored in a dry shelter.
So the choice is yours ............ If you decide to try hay be prepared for the stink,rampant mold,odor and bugs attracted to the rotting hay.
If someone is tring to sell you alfalfa straw I think I would run the other way.
Find a honest farmer -or- look up Farm Feed Co-Ops and ask for help there.
Or your local ag extension at the State university or for your County.
IMO I would not even try using hay.
alfalfa plants
straw
(notice the green color ) HAY
I used hay last year and this year. I also used straw last year and the hay beat the straw hands down. The straw had mold. The hay didn't. I have 13 bales sitting 15 feet from my front door and there is no odor at all. I much prefer the hay.
Well shut my mouth ......... lol
What kind of hay did you use ? (inquiring minds want to know) I would guess it must not have been the alfalfa like we were discussing cause that would have stunk to high heaven.
Probably has a lot to do with the high protein/nitrogen (avg.26%) content in A.hay.
Grass hay probably behaves much better.
I will remember that .
Thanks for chiming in .
Orchard grass and Timothy mixture. I don't feed Alfalfa for 2 reasons. 1) The reason for feeding hay is to fill them up and to get the second gut working. It is supposed to mimic grazing. You can't feed large amounts of Alfalfa because of the high protein content. Founder is a very ugly problem I can do without. 2) I am scared of my horses getting blister beetles in the Alfalfa. They are lethal even in small amounts.
I hope we keep getting these rains like the last couple of days. We are still way behind. It is not looking good for our second cuttings of hay. The first cuttings were not as good as they should have been.
Cajun and Shoe love the hay/grass bales so much they've talked me into getting some for next year. I want to see for myself.
And, I'm going to start ALOT earlier getting some of my bales. I've just ordered a 12x24 utility building from an Amish company and that will free up my barn shelter to store my bales.
Scooterbug: love the ostrich or emu, whatever the heck it is! As soon as I saw it I thought about how Granny on the Beverly Hillbillies thought it was a giant chicken! That was a funny show.
hellnzn11: go for the alfalfa and don't look back; you'll have a great time!
Kent
Kent is right Hell. Go for it. You will have a ball.
Jeanette
OOgie doo. guys. Good info, i am very excited.
Kent So it is called hay/grass and not just hay? This is my first year and the bales I am using a nursery gave me for free. so I am trying to plan now for next year and see what the nuseries around here have and prices.They all seem to run 4to 5 dollars.I know there must be some farmers around fayetteville and raeford that must have it but did not know where. Looked in phone book and only 1 for hay. Any suggestions appreciated. Deanna
deanna, you will find little or no hay amywhere this year due to the drought. farmers are advertising all over to get enough tonnage to get their cows/horses through the coming winter, and are offering a premium payment for it.
you might ask about spoiled hay, which cannot be fed, but certainly can be used for bale gardening.
deanna: 10-4 on what darius said; for simplicity I just lump hay and grass bales into 1 category and the straw types in another.
Kent
I too prefer alfalfa hay bales. I am a rank beginners in bale gardening, but have used baled hay for many years. Use it for litter in my chicken house, the chickens like the alfalfa leaves to eat. Old hay is very good for mulching and I have never noticed any bad odors.
I am only trying for this first time with bale gardening, 3 bales, 2 are straw and one is alfalfa. I planted beans in two of them, 1 each kind. My bales are in a row placed on several thicknesses of newspaper, and mostly watered with a soaker hose. Cannot keep the straw bales moist enough. The bean seeds in the alfalfa came up very good and are growing nicely. I even replanted bean seeds in the straw bale and still have no plants, same conditions for all.
Really nice rain this morning for a couple of hours, which will help everything.
Donna
I use regular ole grass hay, or the kind you would use as bedding. Works perfectly. It doesn't have to have a haircut either. : )
~Lucy
Boy I created a rouchus already here. lol Are you all more confused or better off? I am thinking that straw here in the desert may not hold enough water either. Our straw here is $8.44 a bale, I have been using it in my slow lasagna garden since winter. Just added some Nitrogen accelerant to it and flooded it yesterday. I need more stuff though, more layers too.
Ouch!! And I thought $4.15 a bale was expensive. There are several feed stores in the Sylmar/San Fernando area which I am familiar with. Have you tried them? Maybe Bakersfield would be closer for you. I know gas is too high to make a special trip, but if you had to go there for something else anyway . . . .
You can stretch the use of the straw bales, though. Plant in them the first year, and then use them for mulch/compost the second year. Kent used them the 2nd year to plant potatoes. I'm thinking that may be a good way to get three years out of them: plant veggies first year, potatoes second year, and mulch/compost third year.